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Las Vegas Sands, founded in 1988 by casino mogul Sheldon Adelson, is one of the world’s largest casino and resort operators. Through its subsidiary Sands China, Las Vegas Sands operates properties like the Venetian and the Londoner in the Chinese city of Macau, the world’s largest gambling market. The company also operates the Marina Bay Sands resort in Singapore. Despite the name, Las Vegas Sands no longer has a presence on the Las Vegas Strip after selling its famed Venetian resort in 2022. With casinos in Singapore and Macau, Las Vegas Sands is one of a handful of Fortune 500 companies that generates almost all of its revenue outside the U.S.

Q2 2025

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Q4 2024

Las Vegas Sands (LVS): Company Profile, Stock Price, News, Rankings

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Las Vegas Sands

las vegas sands

day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands Second Quarter twenty twenty five Earnings Call. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen only mode, and we will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.

Thank you. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO Patrick Dumont our President and Chief Operating Officer Doctor. Wilbur Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of Sans China and Grant Cham, CEO and President of Sans China and EVP of our Asia operations. Today's conference call will contain forward looking statements. We will be making those statements under the safe harbor provision of federal securities laws.

The language on forward looking statements included in our press release and eight ks filing also applies to our comments comments made in the press release The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward looking statements. In addition, we will discuss non GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call.

Finally, for the Q and A session, we ask those of interest to please post one question and one follow-up so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.

Thanks, Dan, and good afternoon, and thank you for joining us. Maria Bay Sands had a historic quarter, EBITDA of $768,000,000 We had forecasted that MBS could do 2,500,000,000 annually, and and that may just happen this year. All the pieces are in place for this property to continue to perform. Mass gaming and slot win did $843,000,000 reflecting 97% growth in 2019 and forty percent higher than last year, same quarter. We are in the right place at the right time.

Singapore is a very desirable destination, and our product is as good as it gets. It's difficult to find the superlatives that describe the magnitude of this result. Is unprecedented for a single building to perform like this. Macao did $566,000,000 of EBITDA for the quarter. We have underperformed in this market.

We were not aggressive enough as it relates to customer reinvestment. We believed our billings would be enough. We were wrong. And so in the middle of the quarter, we changed our approach to enable us to increase market share and EBITDA. We will, however, be market sensitive.

Our assets remain the strongest in the world. The Londoner is open and moving towards our goal of $1,000,000,000 of annualized EBITDA. This new approach will create higher market share and EBITDA. At the same time, Macao's GGR accelerated this quarter at a very positive sign. Our goal is to redeem Macao and Macao's increased GGR and our strong assets will enable us to deliver improved results in the future. Let's turn to Patrick for more commentary.

Thanks, Rob. Macau EBITDA was $566,000,000 If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by 7,000,000 When adjusted for higher than expected hold in the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macao portfolio properties would have been 31.3, down 80 basis points compared to the second quarter of twenty twenty four. All 2,450 rooms and suites at the Lunner Grande were available for the last two months of the quarter. We are focused on delivering revenue and cash flow growth at the Lunner across the portfolio. Margin at The Venetian was 35.6%, while margin at the Plaza and Four Seasons was 34% and margin at the Londoner was 31.9%.

We expect growth in EBITDA as revenues grow and as we use our scale and product advantages, together with targeted reinvestment, to better address every market segment. Now turning to Singapore. MBS' EBITDA for the quarter was $768,000,000 at a margin of 55.3%. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by 107,000,000 There will naturally be fluctuations in hold rate in any specific quarter driven by game mix and player preference. The record financial results of Green Bay Sands reflect the impact of high quality investment in marketing leading products and the growth in high value tourism.

We believe we are still in the initial stages of realizing the benefits of our investments in Marina Bay Sandoz. Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders. We repurchased $800,000,000 of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring dividend of $0.25 per share. In addition, during the second quarter and in July, we purchased $179,000,000 worth of SEL stock, increasing the company's ownership percentage of SEL to 73.4% as of today.

We believe repurchase of LVS equity through our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long term. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders. Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take questions.

Thank Now Your first question is coming from Stephen Grambling from Morgan Stanley. Your line is live.

Hey, thank you. Starting with Macau, I appreciate the acknowledgement, the shortfall somewhat there. But perhaps remind us of how you're thinking about turning the tide, from a competitive standpoint and what KPIs or timing investors should maybe be thinking about in terms of seeing some of the market share go in the opposite direction?

I'll take that, Steven. Thank you for the question. I think around late April, we started to implement a more aggressive customer reinvestment program. And I think we're seeing some encouraging initial results from those increased levels of reinvestment. As we get into May and June, the performance of SCL did improve.

And I think we will be continuing to adjust to the market conditions as and when necessary. We're also looking at opportunity for us to perform better from our smaller properties at Parisian and Sands. So overall, the reception to Londoner has been phenomenal. I think we're getting exceptional feedback from customers, and that's obviously growing nicely. But obviously, this quarter is still just the start.

All of the rooms, as Patrick referenced, were available from late April, and we intend to continue to yield better at London and Macau. So that property has much further to go. And then the rest of the portfolio, we have to adjust our reinvestment levels according to the product and according to the individual product mix within the property. And I think this process has only just started, and we'll continue to see, I think, improvements in our results as we have done since May and June already. And as you can see, we have a sequential improvement in our mass GGR market share up 8% for the quarter, and we intend to drive better improvements and also hopefully recapture that market share in the coming quarters.

So I just want to say one thing, which is we're not where we want to be at Macao. We feel like we've made great investments, we have great products, and we believe we can grow EBITDA from here. We're very focused on it. We realize we have work to do in our reinvestment programs. We have things that we think we can do to be more competitive, and we're going to take some action.

And we think we have an approach that we hope in the long run to create growth for us both on the revenue and EBITDA side.

So maybe one quick follow-up there just on Macau. You said you're not where you want to be. What does that mean for capital allocation in that market? Now you used to have a pretty healthy dividend payout in that market as a percentage of free cash flow and earnings. If you go I mean, should we be waiting for that turnaround to see you go back down that path?

And if you start paying out a dividend, is that prior kind of ratio the right way to think about it going forward?

Yes. So I think the key thing is that we've always been focused on return of capital, particularly with the dividend at the SCL level. I think as we see the CapEx roll off from the lender, which was a very meaningful investment that we feel will generate cash flow over the long term, we're very happy to make it. But that being said, hopefully, CapEx profile looks better in the future, as you can see from our CapEx expectations that we published. And so when that happens, we'll look to return to increasing the dividend over time with the support of the SEL Board.

But for us, we think that the best use of free cash flow there, other than investing in growth projects, is to return it to shareholders. And you've seen how we've handled it in the past, and we'll look forward to doing that again in the future. And I think the levels will be based on our expectations of cash flow production going forward.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Kelley from Bank of America. Your line is live.

Hi, good afternoon everyone. For Grant or whoever wants to take it, maybe we could just start in Macau. We did see across the market a bit of an improvement sequentially as the quarter went on in sort of overall market GGR. We've heard some mixed views about how either promotionally driven or VIP or event driven that was. So hoping to get a little bit of color on just what's driving that improvement, how sustainable you think it is and just broader health of the macro in the market right now.

Sure. Thanks for the question, Sean. I think the market clearly accelerated from May, and June obviously was a standout performance, I think, by the calendar of events that prevailed in June. If you look at the segment breakdown, clearly, as you can see from the DICJ data as well, the rolling the VIP segment performed very well during the quarter and was up 26% year on year by our estimates. But the non rolling and the slot win also improved and we're still in the high single digit growth region for for the quarter.

So I think there's some very encouraging signs. I think a mix between improved customer density, but also the calendar of events and the offerings by the operators helping to drive the increased patronage as well.

Thanks for that, Grant. And then maybe just to switch gears as follow-up on Singapore. Rob, obviously just incredible performance on the numbers. I mean over $750,000,000 from a single building in a single quarter is kind of hard to wrap your brain around. Can you give us your best stab at how we should think about maybe a run rate or sort of level of productivity for this property moving forward?

Are we sustainably above $600,000,000 of EBITDA a quarter? I know what we I think we have a good sense of what your stretch goal here is at $2,500,000,000 core. But just help us think about it to level set expectations given it wasn't a fairly easy comp on the mass market and obviously VIP, it can't be volatile quarter to quarter on the handle side. Thanks.

It's hard to predict, isn't it? I mean, I don't think we forecasted a $770,000,000 quarter. I don't think we have a clear view of it. This is sustainable, this go forward. It's proving that it would be an amazing market, and we have the best assets by far in the market.

So how high is up and how deep is that well? I don't I don't know. And the truth is it'd be very difficult to dismiss these results and say, we are now heading for 2,500,000,000.0. Can we get to 2.6, 2.7? Can I continue?

Sean, it's very hard to predict. It's not an easy market. There's never been anything like this in the history of gaming anywhere. You know, you realize this thing this run rate is a $3,000,000,000 asset. We don't expect to do that now.

I think, yeah, two five is realistic and and doable. But I would not wanna venture a guess. I wouldn't wanna dismiss the results, but I don't wanna overhype them and say every quarter is $7.50. I think that's unfair. But could we do 600,000,000 plus or $6.50?

Possibly. Yeah. It depends on how strong the economy remains over there and and the super high end of markets there, and we dominate it. And, you we're kind of alone in that in that place as far as the super high end. So it could be that we're looking at all the world of Singapore, and we'll have to wait and see.

Time will tell. We just don't know because we didn't see this coming this early before it'd come later. But it's here, so deal with it.

You. Your next question is coming from Dan Pellitzer from JPMorgan. Your line is live.

Hey, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. I just I wanted to go back and circle on Macau, right? It seems like you guys are going to be more promotional. You're going to get be focused on generating that EBITDA level.

Is there a targeted EBITDA share that we should think about that kind of gets you to where you want to be just looking at the historical 33% to 35% EBITDA share you've had in that market? Or how should we kind of assess your strategy there and your your for getting back to a level you think is appropriate?

I think we should take this one step at a time. Our goal, we we acknowledge our failure in believing our assets were so strong. We can overcome this very different environment we're used to. We've now jumped the water. We're not leading the market.

We're simply in the mix, and that's a good thing. I believe our assets our short term goal in the near quarters is to get we believe the Londoner and Venetian can generate $2,000,000,000 between them. We believe that the Four Seasons will do $300,000,000 plus. I'd say, the Friesian do $300,000,000 plus. We think the Sands can do $100,000,000 more because things are changing down the pencil.

Our short term goal, my goal, and I hope the team shares that, is that we can get 2,700,000,000.0 run rate and come off the bottom here. Because I think it at two two two three, we're just not performing well enough. We have the best assets. So three things, acceleration of GGR is very helpful, and the most important thing by far is that. Second thing is we have the best and the biggest assets in that town, the most rooms, the best product.

And third thing is we've come off our our thinking. We've changed our thinking. So I'm hoping that Grant and team can see in the near future, you know, 600 plus, $6.50 down the road and get us all back to the $2.06, $2.07 range. That's our short term goal. Beyond that, wait until the market matures.

Let's face it. If this market turns on the accelerate this rate, we might see everyone doing much better. That'd be the best thing for all Macao, but I think it's very possible that happens in '25, even '26, '27. So this is just our acknowledgment that we did not do a good enough job in that environment, and and we're doing it now. And we have full faith in our team over there and our assets to perform and get us back in the game.

Got it. Thanks. That's helpful detail. Just a follow-up on Singapore. Is there any way to kind of wrap our heads around that sudden acceleration in those gaming volumes?

Because it does seem like it was pretty concentrated on just the gaming side. And, I mean, we're trying to parse this out if there was new customers, maybe reception for the property improvement and new suite product, anything in the event calendar. Just trying to make sense of what's obviously, typically the seasonally softest quarter of the year here to be so strong.

I think a lot of it has to do with the product. We spent the last couple of years reinvesting there significantly, not only in the physical product but also in the service levels and the experience we can provide to people. And the type of customer we have coming through the property and the nature of where Singapore sits today, the growing economies of wealth creation in Southeast Asia, it it just it's all working. You know, we have a very strong view on the future of Singapore. And you can see by the type of customers that we have coming in that it's not only a a very strong market, but it's very deep.

And so for us, yes, there's new customers coming in. They're attracted by what we have on offer. They're coming to Singapore to do business. They're coming to Singapore for leisure travel. And they're showing up on Rainy Bay Sands that they're consuming.

So it's great. It's a tribute to the team there and the investment that we've made and the way we execute. But really there, it's just a reflection of who's coming into the market and the fact that we provide experiences that are pretty unique, and they're and they're really taking advantage of it. We're we're a different building than we were five years ago. If you come and visit and you see it, you'll see the differences and realize that we attract a very high level of of patron.

I think you also have to give credit to the government of Singapore, which allows us to train and excel. And Patrick referenced that building there last week for the groundbreaking of a member of our second building. It's an amazing place, but the market's also 4,000,000,000 Asian people at the very top end looking for extraordinary experience and assets. We have in space over there. I think that the truth is that building is just the most desirable.

It's super high end, and there's lots of them. There's a lot of people coming to Singapore. And propensity to gamble, as you know, is high in that part of the world. So we're just in a very fortunate position. I don't see it changing.

I think we're in a very privileged position, and hopefully, it goes on for quite a long time. So we are not one to forecast that it's $600,000,000 $700,000,000 $800,000,000 a quarter. But we know we're in the right place, right time with extraordinary strong assets and excellent government support and a very strong market in terms of Singapore visitation.

I think one other thing that's important to note is we started to see some inklings of this as we started finishing the renovation. But now everything's pretty much done. And so we're starting to see the results as we build customer experience and as they get to experience the property and see how it is to be there and the different things that we offer in this new format, and it's starting to show results. I mean, this is really just a direct result of the completion of the renovation and the type of customers that we can attract with the products that's there now.

Got it. Thanks. It's nice to see the investment there, Froot. Thanks.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Brandt Montour from Barclays. Your line is live.

Good afternoon or good evening, everybody. Thanks for taking my question. So my first question is on Macau. I think from where we sit, it's sort of hard to we see clearly a strengthening of the Chinese consumer in your market and gambling propensity. I was wondering if you could flesh that out a little bit and talk about spend per visit improvement sequentially across either base mass or premium mass?

We all kind of thought it would be a premium mass sort of recovery here in May and June. But looking at your slides, it looks like base mass per table actually did better. So maybe you could just provide a little more color on who's spending, more where.

Hi, Brian. Maybe I'll take that question.

I think overall visitation has been very strong. You see results for April and May were up by over 20% year on year. Obviously, a lot of that is driven by the day trip visitors from the Greater Bay Area. But nonetheless, I think that's helping to drive some of the base mass recovery. But no question, I think the acceleration in GGR is still primarily driven by the premium segments.

I think this quarter, in particular, the market benefited from some some big rolling play, but also at the high end of of the premium mass. So I I think that those dynamics remain similar to to previous quarters. But we're beginning to see also an increased level of visitation, albeit more from the Greater Bay Area in terms of day trips. And of course, from our results as well, sequentially, I think you alluded to it, clearly, grew quite significantly in the base mass non rolling wind against Q1, and that's partly driven by the opening of the Londoner brand.

Okay. That's super helpful. And then just a quick follow-up on Macau. The Londoner results clearly had a nice bounce here in the second quarter. And you alluded to in your prepared remarks that some of the other properties didn't do quite as well.

Am I to read between the lines that the Londoner is the property that has received the most incremental reinvestment activity and the other properties have not, and that's kind of next up in terms of your sort of blueprint or game plan here? Is that not the right read through?

No. That's not entirely accurate. In terms of our higher reinvestment levels, that just went into the portfolio across the board. I think what we are referencing earlier remarks is that we may need to further and we have been further adjusting our reinvestment levels during the quarter towards the end of the quarter for some of our smaller properties because we think those products, given the size and the product level, may need recalibration in the reinvestment levels versus the natural patronage that is flocking to Londoner and also the strength of the property like Venetian continues to be able to attract customers at all segments.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS. Your line is live.

Great. Thank you. Just going back to the acceleration you talked about in June in Macau, it seems like it's driven at least a fair amount of it by the events calendar. And so how do you get comfortable that it's sustainable, as you get past, you know, some of the July events and, and the calendar not being as sustainable in terms of events?

I think, Robin, the the calendar is being filled literally every week, every month by all of the different operators, us included. The change from before the pandemic is really every operator is contributing to the event calendar. And, of course, the big events brought in, whether by us at the Venetian Arena or by our competitor, is beneficial to the entire market when when we have significant acts. And that will obviously not be a a consistent pattern because acts come in different times of the year and different different length, duration of of play and so on. But you can be sure that the calendar will continue to be filled with with great entertainment content.

And I think Macau has really been successful in establishing itself as a regional center for entertainment, be it from Greater China artists, Asian artists, and even international artists.

Robin, I would just add to Grant's comments that I think it was last year, I wouldn't give his credit in Singapore because Taylor Swift made the whole thing happen. She wasn't available this quarter. We still did pretty well. I think the truth is I think she was we couldn't get her to come in. She was busy.

But the truth is we have in the Cali. Yes. Lots of events. But I've learned over the years events just rearrange the customer visitation. They don't necessarily create new as much as they rearrange when people come and go.

And I think that that market is just showing strength the strength. I mean, June results, I think you just see it building. And yes, there's no question that you'd have a Jack and Chung and some of these high end entertainers to help. But again, I think you have to look at the strength of market overall, and I believe it's there. Haven't been there last month.

It looked the first time, it looked a lot like pre pandemic Macau, very strong, lots of people at the tables. I don't believe the entertainers, even special events, actually create more business cases, rearrange when you come. So I wouldn't be that concerned with the event count, although it's chock full of events. Everyone has entertainment these days and terrific restaurants, etcetera. But I think you have to look at the overall results in the last few months to be very encouraged when Macao appears to be heading.

Okay. Great. Thank you. And for the follow-up, just a quick one. Are you thinking about revisiting what you consider a normal hold percent in Singapore?

And I know you just raised it in Q1, but I'm wondering if you're thinking about whether that 3.7% was high enough for normalized hold.

I wouldn't let one quarter drive your thinking. I think you have to stay focused on. Again, this is a very difficult thing for us and other competitors because, as you know, hold percentage is a moving target these days driven by who bets what and how. And so it really does move. As you go to smart tables that enable us to see much more clearly, a great insight to how the market should perform.

I don't think we'll move our whole percentage right now until we see more evidence, but it does change with the market and visitation and types of best customers make. The old days, it was 2.85, 3.25. That's no longer in VOE. It's now very much a moving target depending on who's coming, what they're betting, side bets versus flat bets. I think we'll come back to you in the future if we need to reassess right now. I think we're fine where we're at.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Joe Stauff from Susquehanna. Your line is live.

Okay. Thank you. Good afternoon. In Singapore, maybe a different attempt to ask a similar question that we've heard earlier on the call, but can I ask about just sort of mass gaming revenue and how strong it was? Is that simply a function of, you know, better hold?

Is it increased visitation? You know, it's admittedly another question that just try to how to bend you know, try to benchmark with the newer product that you have in Singapore how strong this number could be. Obviously, VIP is a separate category, different level of volatility. How much is But there any way to disaggregate this number a little bit more for understanding?

I hate to say this. I don't like the answer, but it's very difficult for us to do it as well as you. When you do it $843,000,000 up 97% pre pandemic and 40% higher year on year. It's hard for us to get our hands around it, but there's an awful lot of people showing up in all these segments and gambling outsized amounts of money. And your question is a fair one.

I wish we had better answers. How deep is the well? How high can this thing go? We're confused ourselves by it because we expected 2.5. But now I think we can say we could achieve it this year.

And I think it's a combination of incredible market, incredible access to people who want to get there. The Visa situation is helpful. And I think you're seeing the results of very, very a superlative results in terms of building. The building is just unique and special, and there's lots of product. So I know it's difficult, and I hear your frustration.

We we share it. We don't over we don't wanna exaggerate this and say we're running $3,000,000,000. We also don't wanna underplay it. We wanna accept the fact it happened, and it's happened now two quarters in really strong results, hoping for a similar second half of the year. And it's hard to model.

I'd be blunt with you. I think one thing I would say, when you say mass gaming, premium mass gaming is alive and well in those numbers. You know, these are nonrolling, very high rolling premium. Don't consider people betting $1,000 a hand. This premium mass segment, which is in that eight forty seven number, eight forty three, is a lot of very, very high end nonrollers, you know, which is different than past Macau.

So I appreciate the commentary of your questions. It's very fair. I wish we had more insightful answers, but we keep watching this thing and saying, you know, we lost a quarter with amazement, but it just kept coming. And I think it'll just keep coming in Singapore. When we beat the customers, different issue was 3.7, 3.3, we never could know.

But the volumes look strong. And to me, appears like we're on a run here that may last for a long time.

And then maybe a follow-up. Formula One is pushing the fourth quarter in Singapore this year versus September last. What's the right way to think about whether or not the rest of the building can absorb that normal activity? Or do you view that as a bit of a headwind?

Formula one is always a great event for Singapore. It's something that we fully support, we're an integral part of, and we always welcome it. And I think our patrons really enjoy it. You know, a lot of visitors show up in Singapore because of this event. And for us, whenever it whatever it happens, it's great.

So if it's third quarter, fourth quarter, we're happy with it. You know, we do our best to support the initiative around it because we think it's it's great for Singapore. It's it's great for Maria Bay Sands, and the type of customers that show up are always very helpful. But in terms of being able to accommodate customers in Q3 or during Golden Week with Formula One, it's fine. Either way, it works.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Chad Beynon from Macquarie. Your line is live.

Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Wanted to go back to Macau, Rob. You mentioned 02/07 as as the near term, you know, North Star, and hopefully, that eventually moves, kind of back to three. But wanted to approach it from a margin standpoint.

So Londoner had nice improvement in margin. You know, the collective was down 80 basis points as as you guys called out, and the flow through was obviously, negative here for the quarter. But does margin matter as much in terms of how you're thinking about running the business or or given some of the commentary that we've spoken about with promos, maybe we shouldn't have a margin target in mind just because of simple inflation and a different approach towards promo? Or is that still the case to get to closer to a 40% margin long term?

So I think the key thing about Macau is that there's a very large fixed cost base in our property portfolio. And so our margin is going to be determined by how much revenue we can push through these buildings. And so if our promotional activity, if our customer reinvestment makes us a little less competitive and we have less revenue, our margins will be impacted. So I think for us, ex hold, right, if you ignore the impacts of hold, if we continue to to have the best properties where we have great offer offerings for our customers and great experiences, and then we reinvest in a in a more market competitive way, we think we'll still have the ability to drive revenue at an appropriate margin. And so if you look at the margin regime where we are today, that's okay for now. But if we grow revenues for the business, over time, there might be some opportunity for up for some upside. But I don't think we're looking at a specific EBITDA margin in terms of our reinvestment guidance. Our reinvestment guidance is going be based on the market, and hopefully, we'll grow revenues based on our product portfolio. We put a whole lot of new product into the market this last quarter, right?

The Londoner Grant is a whole new building. And the casino performance there has been great. We have tremendous slot performance coming out of the Londoner total portfolio. And I think for us, you heard Grant, as you heard Rob mention before, we have some work to do. That being said, think there's opportunities in the Parisian.

We think there's opportunities in the Four Seasons. And even downtown at the Sands, think there's opportunity. So while we keep pushing the Venetia and the Londoner, our segmentation has different reinvestment requirements. And we're going to keep looking at it and evaluating the segmentation across the different properties to ensure that we can optimize for revenue growth and cash flow growth. And so we're not targeting a specific EBITDA margin, but we believe over time, as we have the opportunity to grow revenues, the margin will fall.

And so margin does matter, but EBITDA matters more. And in any business, you got to be sensitive to the environment you're playing in, and the environment there has changed. We weren't sensitive enough. So now we readjust that coupled with our strong assets, and you add that to a growing or surging GGR. I think you have a good formula.

Las Vegas Sands (LVS) Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

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