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This year's Fortune 500 marks the 66th running of the list.

This year's Fortune 500 marks the 65th running of the list.

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Universal (UVV): Company Profile, Stock Price, News, Rankings

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Universal | Fortune

Universal (UVV): Company Profile, Stock Price, News, Rankings | Fortune

Dennis Woodside has held senior operational roles at Google, Motorola Mobility, Dropbox, Impossible Foods, and now Freshworks, where he is CEO. His breadth of experience raises a pointed question: What actually transfers when the industry, business model, and mission change completely?  In this conversation, Woodside will share which fundamental operational skills proved universal, which demanded fresh thinking, and how the COO role prepared him for the top job. 

Dennis Woodside, Chief Executive Officer and President, Freshworks
Interviewer: Diane Brady, Executive Editorial Director, Fortune; Co-Chair, Fortune COO Summit 

Succession Spotlight: How to Be a Universal Operator and Transcend Industries

Conferences

Dennis does a fabulous haiku. We'll see if you come up with someone on the spot, but let's start. So let's start with FreshWorks. You've had obviously this great background, but you are in the middle of a very interesting area with software right now. So you're doing well. What are you doing right? Well, so FreshWorks, we're a software company. We provide software primarily to two teams customer support and IT. And as such we're right in the middle of the AI revolution for better and for worseification of everything, so changing your cost model and changing every business here. So if you think about customer support, many organizations here probably have hundreds of people in support or IT. You have hundreds of people manning a help desk in the next. Years you might have 1/10 the number of people and most of those kinds of operations questions are going to be handled by AI and that's the software that my company builds at the same time we're that's not 10th the income for you, no. So and that's the challenge is that we come from a seat-based model where we price based on the number of agents that you have. What happens if you have no agents and we have customers that literally have gone to support teams of zero and everything is being handled by AI, so your pricing model changes, your products have to change. There's completely new competition from startups as well as huge companies like Anthropic and OpenAI. Many customers here, if you want, you can go to those organizations and build your own software. You couldn't do that a year ago. Uh, so it's a tremendous time of change. At the same time we have the right to win because we've got 75,000 customers. They trust us. We provide software today that actually solves their problems for them. They want governance. They want security. They want control over those outcomes, and that's what we do. OK, so let me, you have been you were a CEO, you're a president really. You're in an operating role and you've been a COO to CEO before. I was talking to another guy this morning who talked about the vision when you're in that COO role and you know that you're going to be in charge, which you did. Did you, um, did you have a vision? Were you going to change things from day one, or was there sort of a tacit understanding that, you know, they were going to start your process once you came on board? Yes, I think it's really interesting, you know, the COO role means different things in different organizations. I was, I was the CEO of Motorola Mobility. We sold it, which meant. I sold it, which meant I sold myself out of a job, and I went to, uh, Dropbox, helped take that public as the COO. Uh, my role there was very much about complementing a very strong founder who, who cared a lot about product and engineering, so I focused on everything else coming into FreshWorks. Girish Mahatra Bin is the founder and CEO for 12 years of the company, also a really strong product visionary and product leader. He wanted to spend all his time on product and engineering. He didn't wanna deal with go to market and sales and finance. And so we just had a clear understanding. I'm gonna focus on the areas that he doesn't wanna, that those happen to be the areas I know the best, and I'm gonna learn from him on the product and engineering side. And if things go well, potentially someday I could become the CEO. But it was a long, you know, there's a lot to do. I had to earn the trust of the board and of. Garish in order to win that job. Well, I think the yin yang of the rule is very interesting, and one of the things I don't think we've actually surveyed who wants to be a CEO here? It's hard to raise your, OK, there's, so there's, OK, and then who's not raising their hand, who's not raising modest and being modest, but you, when you want to be the CEO, what have you learned from your prior experience? that maybe made you better prepared this time around. Well, I think it's important. It's interesting that not many people raise their hands. I think if you have the title target on your back, maybe, maybe I want your job, but if you have the title of COO, you have it for a reason. The board and your CEO decided that you are on a path to being ready potentially to be the CEO. Maybe they didn't say that to you. But that's what the title implies, and I think it's important to recognize for yourself, do you, do you aspire to be the CEO or not? Some people don't, and that's fine, but if you do, you have to act a little bit differently. I think it's important to have a very open conversation with your CEO. Again, based on the trust that you've established, you have to be excellent at what you're doing today. You can't just talk about what you want to do tomorrow, but I think you have to have that conversation. I wanna be the CEO someday. Help me get there. The board needs to understand that the board, the board's job is to make sure there is a succession plan, and the COO can be an important part of that succession plan. So I, I, I found when I was in that role. No one really told me that, uh, and you kind of had to figure it out yourself, but I think it's really important because if you establish that, hey, you know, at some point in time, I want to be ready, you start acting differently. You start thinking differently about your job, and it opens up a whole level of growth that you might not otherwise have. So when you became CEO, especially replacing a founder, was it clear to you what needed to be done differently? Yes, I think that's another thing that's really important as the COO. You know, you have a purview that's probably the largest in the company next to the CEO. I was with the Instacart head of operations. He said he has about half the company reporting in. So you probably know a lot about what's. Going well and what's not going well maybe you know you have a different perspective than the CEO. I think it's important to develop that independent view of where should the business go, have an open conversation with the CEO when there's differences, but also be ready to act so that if you are called into the role, you, you take the company in the direction that is uniquely yours and you're not just perpetuating what was happening before. Even in the best run businesses there are things that you can do differently and better. There are changes happening from the outside, you know, AI is disrupting us, but every business here is going through some disruption. Of different making and you need to understand that and think about well how can we do things better so when the time comes that maybe you do become the CEO you are ready to go. You're not like spending six months figuring out what to do and you don't feel anchored by what was in the past because you have an independent view and you've already talked about it with the CEO. The CEO already knows that maybe you have a different view as to where the company should go, so boom, you move and you take the company forward and that's when I came in as a CEO here. In the 1st 3 months we bought a company, we shut down a couple product lines, and we wound up doing a riff and refocusing the organization, and it's worked and the CEO exited the building, so you didn't have to have them there to help. Well, no, Garris was super supportive. He was on the board for a year and a half. He was the executive chair, which meant that he helped me literally build the next set of products. A lot of the AI roadmap that we have now is because. Girish, he was, he was building AI products six years ago when AI was not a thing yet and so I valued that a lot and I wanted him involved as long as possible. Now he's now focused on his own venture capital fund. He invests in Indian-based entrepreneurs. That's what he wants to do full time. But we're still friends. He literally bought a house down the street from me, and I think that relationship is really important. I know in other situations it's like the old goes out and there's no relationship with the new. I think that's probably suboptimal. So I do want to be aware if you have questions, raise your hand. One of the things I want to talk a little bit about the personal because you also do a lot of Ironman competitions. You've worked at a remarkably eclectic group of firms including Impossible Foods, very different. Give me a sense of how those experiences have shaped the playbook you have as a leader. Well, I think, I think it's important to just other than being fit, we all have to be fit. Yeah, I think it's I like, I like to challenge myself. I think it's important to surround yourself with people who like challenges and like big things. And the great thing about, you know, I've been very fortunate to work in Silicon Valley and The companies that come out of the valley, they typically have very big visions. Impossible Foods was one where Pat Brown, our founder, he, his vision was to completely replace animal meat with plant-based meat, and there's lots of good reasons why that's a good thing for the planet, um, but that's not a small mission, and you know that's not always going to work. It's going to be hard. In that case, food is really hard. It's hard to change consumer behavior. We're a long way from fulfilling that mission, but. But I think, I think people who are attracted to those big challenges, um, like you had Charles from the Navy on, like, you don't, you, you don't, you volunteer to go into a submarine. You do that because you're, you're, you're deciding I want a big challenge for myself and I want to surround myself with people who like those challenges. So I've just always liked to do that. And I've been fortunate that these ideas keep popping up in the valley that keep interesting me, and I'm good at scaling stuff. I could never invent a company myself, but I can help these, and I know you're you're skipping over the Ironman part, but I am curious because I'd say one of the differences in my career in covering CEOs is it is very much now seen as an athletic pursuit in a way that it wasn't. 1520 years ago, I mean, I do want to do that correlation of personal health. How do you think about that? How do you conserve your energy because everybody wants a piece of you? Well, I think there's a couple of things. So I've done, I've done the Ironman 18 times. I usually finish close to the top of my age group. I'm doing 4 races this summer, not a full, but 3 halves in a short race, and And I think it's good to have something outside. It's a lot easier now that my kids are older. When the kids were younger, I couldn't do any of this. But now that the kids are older and out of the house, I think it's good to have something that pushes back against work, like something that where you can think. It's, you know, some people meditate, some people do yoga. I go ride a bike or I go for a run, and that's what I think about things. And I think even if you're not thinking consciously, I think you're probably subconsciously processing what can I do better. I'm going to speak at this event. What do I want to say? And so for me that's always been an important part of my day. I schedule it all in. I collect all the data. Now I'm using AI to plan my, uh, plan my, do my training plan for the year. It's all done on cloud, so I try to mix work and the and the sports stuff in together, and I find it, I just find it rewarding and I like to compete. So that's why I do it. Let's go back to the business and. Especially not just the business you're in and how you are reforming it, but AI generally and the fact that a lot of people are spending a lot of money right now and not seeing the return, you get a frontline view of that. What do you see going on? What advice do you have? Yes, I think so. Recognize how big this is. I think if you're not right in the middle of it. Hard to, it's hard to fathom. We are going to invest $1 trillion in caps and systems and chips for AI. The semiconductor industry has added $1 trillion in market cap in the last year. The software industry, like I said, has gone down by $1.3 trillion. This is a massive transformation. Every business here is going to be affected as the COO. It's your job to figure this out because it's going to define how business is done for the next several decades. It's bigger than the internet. It's bigger than mobile, and it's important to start. Re start acting now in a way that makes sense. Business sense. There's a lot of hype. I guarantee you, a lot of companies are gonna go completely under. You don't wanna partner with them. You wanna find trusted partners that are gonna be around for 10 years that have strong business models that have understand your business and understand what you're trying to accomplish and can drive real business outcomes. But I think if you're the COO, you need to take AI very seriously and personally learn how to use cloud, understand what MCP is, build your own software. You can do all that right now. You do that, of course. I use, I use Cloud. I use Lovable, which is a prototyping app. I send ideas that I've created just on Lovable, you know, in my spare time to the product team, and then they figure out, is this a good idea? It's usually a terrible idea. But um, but I think you have to. Have to walk the walk and talk the talk, and the value of AI is it allows people who don't have deep programming backgrounds to build things and to build tools that you can use internally to build tools that you can ship to your customers. You have to, you have to get your hands dirty on this stuff. And one other thing in the final minute or so we have is you are somebody who also likes to in some ways represent the industry. A COO job is very internal. I mentioned at the start. The narrative around AI, the narrative around software, give me a sense of how important it is you feel to be getting out there and helping to shift that narrative right now. Yes, that's one of the things that you know as a COO you typically don't have to do a lot of your communication probably is internal to your own don't have to deal with the likes of me, no, or investors. You probably aren't, but if you get a chance, spend time with investors, understand how they think because they think very differently than maybe. Than your board does, uh, and, and I think shaping the narrative externally is super important. I probably spend a third of my time on communication to investors, to media, or to the teams internally, and that certainly wasn't true as a as a COO or as a president. Great, please join me in thanking Dennis Woods. Oh wait, do we have what? No, you know what? Can I, um, in 30 seconds just give us a quick comment and then you can continue after. What would you like to say? I wanted to ask a quick question. Is probably not gonna fit in 30 seconds, but, uh, wanted to know you work with thousands of companies that try to automate their operations, right? And I wanted to know from your point of view what differentiates the ones that are successful versus the ones that are not successful, that is a haiku, is it OK. You've got 10 seconds. The ones that are seeing real value have a business leader who's deeply engaged, who says we have a business problem. Let's see if the technology can solve it. The ones that fail, that's vague and unanswered, and that is not you, Dennis Woodside. So there you go. Thank you very much to be continued and thank you thanks for.

Google DeepMind founder and CEO Sir Demis Hassabis is a master chess player, a recipient of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry, and - as of 2024 - a Knight. Today, as a leader within Google’s booming AI team, Hassabis wants to make AI the “engine” driving the entire company.

In this episode of Fortune 500: Titans and Disruptors of Industry, Fortune’s Editor-in-Chief Alyson Shontell sits down with Hassabis at the World Economic Forum in Davos to talk about how he and his companies are using AI to cure cancer, build universal agents, and move the world towards a future of “radical abundance.”

Google’s AI boss made OpenAI issue code red. Now he wants to solve disease. | Titans and Disruptors

Leadership

Bob Dennis, Senior Director of Creative Studio & Resort Development, Universal Beijing Resort, In conversation with Nicholas Gordon, Editor, Asia Fortune

Brainstorm Design 2024: Designing Memories

Bob Dennis, Senior Director of Creative Studio & Resort Development, Universal Beijing Resort, In conversation with Nicholas Gordon, Editor, Asia FORTUNE  

So I thought there would be a fireplace. Uh Fortune invited me to a fireside chat. So I thought there would be a fireplace. But we brought is, is how is is wordplay part of your tool kit for memorable experiences. Yeah, it's immersion. Don't you feel cozy? So we're, we're going to get into your thoughts on park design, how to build immersive experiences, how to leverage emotions. But I have to ask, I'm a fervent player of video games. What was it like for Universal to work with Nintendo? Oh Amazing. First of all, Miyamoto. So is a genius and uh it's a learning curve for both of us. Uh because in the world of video games, it's digital and our world is physical with steel and concrete. Um So it's a learning curve on both sides but an amazing partnership. So, so as mentioned, you know, you've worked in this space for over 30 years. I believe your first gig was working for a San Rio theme park back in 1988. How has theme park design changed over the decades? Well, I'm old. So um when we were designing theme parks back in the eighties we didn't have any computers, we didn't have computer assisted design. It was all done with a pencil and then ink and then of course you pulled your prints. Um But everything was exhibition then and the industry has changed so much that now it's immersion. Um And we're getting better and better at that, but we've been doing immersion since before the term was even coined. So, I mean, let's split at that. I mean, given your long experience kind of working with immersive experiences, you know, before, was a buzzword that people used. You know, how do you actually create such an immersive memorable experience? What's your toolkit? And I believe we have some slides, maybe even some audience engagement a little bit as we go through this. So I think the table stakes because of where we are, it's a good reference. The table stakes are excellent storytelling and of course, um you'll hear this often today. Um visual stimulation, sensory input. So you need a, you need a beautiful picture, but you also need a logical story that the guests can connect to and find their place in what it is that you're trying to present. So that's cable stakes and where you have to go further is you have to, you want people to connect to the story you have and most people forget about emotion. So every memorable experience can be done by senses here in Macau, you get a sense of awe, a sense of grandeur. But what's missing to make it an episodal autobiographical memory is emotion. So the best connection is always made through emotions and often people confuse feelings with emotions. So there's a million colors and everything that we do happens here, it happens inside the brain, regardless of how good your design is or how grand your experience is, all of it has to be encoded so that we have an experience without the memory. What's the point? Right? So most people don't realize that with three colors, you can make a million, a million different colors with eight basic emotions. You can also make a million different feelings. And it's very important to understand the difference between emotions and feelings. OK? Can you guys guess what this emotion is? We don't need mics, you can just yell it out just fine play along, right? So this is obviously joy. I created these images um to trick you in a minute. Um But yeah, these are facial expressions uh that evoke that particular chemistry happening in your limbic system. So you understand joy, the opposite of joy. Of course, the next one, sadness, right? And after sadness, I'll, I'll see if you can guess this one. This is the trick. Most of you are thinking love, however, love is not an emotion. Love is a feeling that is a combination of several emotions. It could be joy, sadness, disgust, right? And um these all come together in a symphony inside our brain that we equate with the feeling of love. So it's trust, trust is the emotion. This one is a good one discussed, right? This is baked into our limbic system for your survival. Um And so memories that are formed along with this emotion are deeply encoded anger when we have a perceived wrong. Um These also are strongly recorded, not as moments but as experiences. So they're, they're like little videos instead of a snapshot. If somebody makes you afraid, you will retell this experience over and over again in great detail. OK? Anybody anger, right? Same process. So every oh they made me so mad and then they'll tell you every little detail because it's been recorded as an autobiographical memory. It was, it was an experience. OK? This one, this one, Alfred Hitchcock was a master at this. We use it often too um anticipation. And then finally, uh this is where you take your redirect. So if you use the emotion of anticipation, the brain starts creating all kinds of scenarios on its own and it engages deeply in the frontal cortex. And what this does is creates more engagement and people are doing their own self reflection. And then of course, you do the redirect, you take them into a way that they did not expect the outcome to be and we get surprised. So we have these eight emotions then how are you kind of putting them all together? And leverage them into a memorable experience. I mean, some of these emotions make sense for a theme park setting, joy, surprise anticipation, even fear, some feel a little bit, you know, maybe not quite as easy to put into an entertainment setting like discussed. So how are you leveraging all of these emotions together to kind of tell a story in the real world? It's a good point. So you don't want to manipulate people and you don't want to use uh emotions as trickery. So it has to be authentic. And so I think most designers forget about engineering those emotions in putting together a recipe or a symphony that causes crescendos and date crescendos. And that, that working together engages the person into a story and they, they're all useful, but some, we use more than others, obviously joy. Um There's a great one, anticipation. We try to stay away from fear and disgust, but they're used, we, we do use them. Um I want you to dive a bit deeper about kind of adapting these ideas, you know, a lot of universal zone properties, the properties of your partners like Warner for Harry Potter or Nintendo. These are things that exist on the page or on the screen. They don't exist in the real world. You know, as much as some of us would love magic to exist in the real world. It, it it doesn't. But how do you take these things that only exist? You know, in fiction basically and make them work as a real world experience. So this is why I'm losing my hair. Um So our, our creatives um Miyamoto Song JK Rowling, um They're amazing at creating worlds in print or production designers like Stuart Craig for film and they can pretty much create anything that they can imagine. So our job is to take that world and those stories and connect our guests to those characters. But we have to do it with steel and concrete building codes, safety requirements, throughput, operability. Um Basically, we shouldn't do anything because it's almost impossible. And yet we have many parts around the world that do just that. So um it, it's very difficult to, to translate, but we're very fortunate because we work with our IP partners and the films are there, we only get three or four minutes to, to kind of get people through that experience. Um And so we do a lot of callbacks, a lot of bringing up things that they saw or remembered in the film. And we have to do that in a way they can touch it. So a gag has to work every time, every day for years, not just to catch it, capture it on film. So I would say we use all the sciences um and all the arts and that our attractions are some of the most sophisticated machines there are. And I think that when you go to a theme Park. We don't want you to know that we try to keep that secret, but it's a fact. Um I want to stick on this film point for a second and how it connects particularly to one memory I have of going to Universal Studios, Japan when I was a very small child. I still remember seeing the Water World Exhibit for those who don't know. Water World is a 1995 film starring Kevin Costner. Um I'll say reactions to the film were mixed and being charitable. Um But I dare say the attraction is more, is, is, is more famous than the film at this point. Um It's in, it's in many of um universal parks. Um And so kind of why do you think this attraction in particular is so popular? And how does it fit in your philosophy for immersion and experience? We actually have some video that you can have talked for a bit first. It's a very good example. So the film mixed reviews on the film II, I don't think it was a blockbuster. Um But we were able to take uh from that film and use the emotions that are created by it and do a stunt spectacular. So not only was it visual, which is great and great sound and great lighting and great special effects, but everything is real. We don't use projections, there's real flames, we set the entire lagoon on fire and you will feel the heat from that and you will get wet. Um But in the story itself, we also engage many of the emotions, you may be angry at the villain. Um You feel some joy. So I think that the theme park experience in this example um has outlived the film and we're gonna show a little bit of it what actually happens on screen. Um So I want to talk about kind of another stakeholder in this discussion. We've talked about designers universal, we've talked about it partners, but there's also the fans um these are worlds with uh I'm going to call them very devoted fan bases, very passionate fan bases. That's true of Harry Potter. It's true of Nintendo, it's true of your um your peers at Disney, you have to work in Star Wars. Fans are passionate, they are also a little nuts. Um And so how do you kind of design these experiences in a way to kind of give fans what they want to make it memorable for them, but also managing expectations and managing it for those who maybe haven't read every single book a dozen times. So I think as designers, we often get caught up in our own story and um we, we wanna engage our visitors to remember what they want to experience. So at Universal, we really believe our guests are co creators. We engage often and constantly with those, not just the deep fans, but with uh the people that may not be deep fans, it's very important to get that feedback so that you're telling the story that they can get, that you're telling the story that they want to experience and that you don't get too stuck in what you want. Um So it has to be more objective, a little less subjective and constantly engaging with the feedback from the fans and we love hearing from them. Um And you're right, some of them are a little crazy, but we love that kind of crazy. Um You know, just kind of, it's gonna bring a kind of more examples of rides we've worked on. I mean, what's maybe another one of these exciting rides that you've worked on that really kind of shows your philosophy on, on designing immersive and memorable experiences. So the the awards are, are Industry's Oscars and we received it last year for Jurassic World Adventure. You all have to come to Beijing. That's the only place that attraction exists right now and that I believe really checks all the boxes on visual stimulation, um experiential design, but more importantly, emotion. So I remember when we opened, uh there was a 12 year old boy that was a guest of a friend of mine. And after going on that attraction, he asked me quite seriously, uh what do we feed our dinosaurs, right? So, so that type of sense, the suspension of disbelief um can only be found in, in, in the major players in this and that was why that is my favorite. I'm going to have to find an excuse to go find a story to write about it and then get work to expense it. Um But thank you Bob for, for walking us through the toolkit on how you build immersive experiences at universal. We're going to take a short break right now. Please help yourself to coffee, which will be served right outside the ballroom. Don't forget to pick up a copy of Gensler's design forecast 2025 report available at the desk on a first come first serve basis. So grab your copy. Now we'll meet back here for our next conversation promptly at 1045. When we come back, we'll hear from two of Silicon Valley's leading industrial designers and a panel of accomplished design leaders on customer experience. We'll see you back here soon.

Pearlena Igbokwe, Chairman, Universal Studio Group, Debra Martin Chase, Chief Executive Officer, Martin Chase Productions, Nina Shaw, Founding Partner, Del Shaw Moonves Tanaka Finkelstein Lezcano Bobb & Dang, Sharon Waxman, Founder, Editor-in-Chief, CEO, TheWrap 

Most Powerful Women Summit 2024: Hollywood Power Panel  

Pearlena Igbokwe, Chairman, Universal Studio Group
Debra Martin Chase, Chief Executive Officer, Martin Chase Productions, Nina Shaw, Founding Partner, Del Shaw Moonves Tanaka Finkelstein Lezcano Bobb & Dang, Sharon Waxman, Founder, Editor-in-Chief, CEO, TheWrap 

Pearlena Igbokwe, Chairman, Universal Studio Group, Debra Martin Chase, Chief Executive Officer, Martin Chase Productions, Nina Shaw, Founding Partner, Del Shaw Moonves Tanaka Finkelstein Lezcano Bobb & Dang

Pearlena Igbokwe, Universal Studio Group, Debra Martin Chase, Martin Chase Productions, Nina Shaw, Del Shaw Moonves Tanaka Finkelstein Lezcano Bobb & Dang, Sharon Waxman, Founder, TheWrap 

All right. Hello. Hello everyone. Welcome. Um to this amazing assortment of powerhouse women who run the entertainment industry. Uh Pretty much pretty much. Ok, so, uh we're gonna get right to it right down to it. Um It's a tough time in the entertainment industry. People are being laid off, companies are going away. Companies are consolidating. Um You guys are in the trenches of it every day. So let's just talk, take it, get like, let's get real your view. How bad is it right now in the entertainment industry, you have many decades of experience between you, Palena. We'll start with you. How bad is it? Yeah. You know, look, I tend not to be an alarmist. You know, I think that there's probably lots of different times in our business when people thought it was the worst it's ever been. It's definitely challenging right now because I think there's been a lot of disruption in our business and people are being forced to rethink the business wholesale, which I think is really troubling for a lot of people. But I think in the midst of challenges, there's also opportunities to rethink the business, you know, and and perhaps it's an opportunity for us to, you know, think about how do we do it differently and who we do it with differently. So, yeah, it's, it's challenging, but I, I don't think it's necessarily horrible. Here's two things. One I have learned over the course of, you know, whatever 30 plus years you have to stay open and stay nimble because there's this, this build, this, this business is influenced by technology, culture, politics, you know, global economy. So you, you have to try and live in the present but also always look for it. But what I will say from the 30 years that I've been in business diversity is now a part of the business in a way that it has not been in the past. And part of that is a real recognition that there's money to be made. I mean, I was, you know, making this argument for years that diversity was good business and people were like, oh, I don't know if we haven't tried it out. We're scared to try it out. But now they know. And so there are more opportunities in many ways now now than there were even a decade ago. Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about that in a minute, Nina. What's your thought? Yeah, I, I tend to agree with um my colleagues uh because this is something that we see in the business and we've seen all along. I can remember when um cable TV, when the DV DVD world. So all these different things happened. Um, and it always felt like we weren't going to move along. The truth of it is, is that people have become much more adept at doing things in different ways. For example, you see a number of people in the business who really are small business owners and they're doing them in their homes at their computers. Uh So we see the advent of influencers and the way that they have impacted the business now, that's a group in the business that didn't exist 1015 years ago. And they have changed in many ways, the product we're seeing children's programming moving away from networks and broadcasting and into youtube. So, so every change is an opportunity, but it is a difficult time and I don't, certainly don't want to make. Um I don't, I don't wanna not talk about the people in the business, many of the below the line people who are finding it very difficult to adjust and, and we're seeing, I think for them a very, very tough times, but I have hope that we will come through it and yet um for each of you, um I think it's worth acknowledging each of you in your own careers, whether it's in the studio system or whether it's in independent producing or whether it's as uh a le a legal representation for so many people, Ava Duvernay and John Legend. And so many people I can go on about all their credits. It's like, absolutely remarkable. We have on this, we only have 20 minutes. So, um, what allowed you to think that there was a place for you because there were no models for the people. You were at a young age. And, well, I want to talk about each of your paths because they're so remarkable whether you're from New York or Illinois or Nigeria. Um, it's, um, it's an act of faith to create that path. And here you are now, still going strong, having incredible careers at a time where a lot of people are having to abandon the business frankly because it is so difficult, you know, how, how did you like, project yourself into the sort of key role you have now, you know, in some ways and in a very odd way. Um, it was a lack of opportunities that really made this so clear for me. I really didn't have. I remember when I was, I had gone a very traditional path after Columbia law school, gone to Big Law. And then from there, I was trying to get into the entertainment industry in, in the boutique law firm and no one would hire me. It was just an amazing experience to be as, as experienced a lawyer. I was with the kind of credentials I had and be unable to find a job. So I just went, I answered an ad in the news paper and ended up in a small law firm with great lawyers who ultimately trained me to be an even better entertainment lawyer. And then when it was time for me, I felt it was time to strike out on my own. It wasn't really a lot of other options. It was so funny how a lack of options can make, you can make your path very, very clear. And I ended up beginning my law firm. We just had our 35th anniversary. Um um I think with, with, um out being immodest, we are absolutely considered one of the top law firms and we're both with her would have been just kind of awkward otherwise. So sometimes when the doors are all seem to be closed, your way forward actually is a bit clearer because it's going to be what you make it. And that was really the lesson that I took from this. And I had such a great family, such as so many strong women in my family that, you know, they could do it. I had to do it, Deborah, how are you? So, I'd always loved film and television. My dad was huge, film, television buff. I was a lawyer. I practiced, you know, Harvard law school, big law firm, whatever. And I decided that what I really wanted to do in life was to make movies. I didn't know that nobody who looked like us was making movies. So it was actually you know, I got, when I got to Hollywood and I looked around and I'm like, really? And so, but I had, I, I was determined to do it. I wanted to do it and I figured other people are doing it so I can do it, which has been my philosophy, my whole life. So in some ways, it was like, you know, the ignorance of the situation, but also a belief in myself by that time because, you know, I, I successful kind of everything that I tried to do. And this is the thing I really wanted to do and I really wanted to have an impact on culture. I grew up not seeing people who look like us or felt like us on the screen. And I wanted to change that. And let's, let's, let's talk about some of the shows that you've made over the course of your career that have changed the way uh popular culture appears on, on our screens. Uh I mean, I know you, I, I can mention them. I mean, you did the Pelican brief and I, I actually do you ran Denzel Walk? We did uh devil in a blue dress and encouraging the fire and the preacher's wife and I picked the one that you didn't produce. OK. Di I say the Pri Cinderella Cinderella Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants. One, am I right? OK. So stuff that equalizer, equalizer. OK. Together. Yeah. So these are things that have really had a big impact on shaping what, what the conversation is, what's conventional wisdom, what's normal, what's interesting and I'm really proud of it. All right. And thank you for that and should be Palena. So, you know, I was born in Nigeria, came to this country when I was very young. So I was obsessed with television because that's how I got acclimated to this country. And I think that's similar, similar story for a lot of, you know, immigrants and, you know, TV teaches you, you know, in some ways like values, like what are you supposed to aspire to? What are you supposed to believe in? Um And so I had this deep seated desire one day to, to work in television, but it's deep seated because I never thought it would happen because I didn't know anyone who worked in TV. And it wasn't until I got to college and I was looking for a summer job one day I saw on the board it says NBC was looking for summer associates colleges. Yale, by the way. So, you know, so, so it was like my mind exploded because I didn't know that people worked in television and they could pay you to make TV shows. So I applied, I got the job and I spent two summers in New York and it was like life changing for me. II, I was in the business, you know, and then I had to figure out how to get a, uh, a permanent job in the business. That was not as easy as I thought I applied everywhere and no one wanted me. Um, so I went to do something else and worked in financial services for a while. And then I decided when I, I want to go back into entertainment and figure it out, I went to business school and then eventually, uh, made my way into a Showtime network on the marketing side, hoping one day I'd get to the entertainment side and I did after a few years and I came out to L A and I was just determined to go, you know, for my path. Now. It's interesting because already I, where I was, I felt so improbable, you know that, oh my gosh, I'm this immigrant kid who's now in entertainment. I kind of felt like there's nothing I can't do because I've already done this. And what made me feel like there was a path for me. I went to an event and I saw this woman who was a producer, she had produced Courage under fire. And, you know, all those other things that she produced and I saw her and I said, oh my God, there's this black woman who's a producer out there, you know, producing these amazing shows and by the way, always looking amazing. And uh and, and so I thought, like, wouldn't it be great to try to, you know, that maybe I could find, um, you know, a path in there as well. So, um, so that's, you know, it, it is a little bit of not knowing any better, you know, and sometimes not having another, you know, option. Um, that sort of gets you there and just, you know, it's a slow and steady path. It, it wasn't like I had a friend or an uncle who called someone and got ready for the job. Mine was, I say to people, I was the third. You guys are the anti nepo lady. I mean, I say to people, I was a 30 year overnight sensation. You know, like when I got this job, when I got this job, you know, uh as chairman, I mean, pe it was kind of like rich. She came out of nowhere, you know, and got this job and, you know, and that's for some people that was the perception and for me, it was, you know, steadily working in the business and hopefully performing well, you know, to get this job, I just want to mention a few of the shows that Palina has been, I don't have only have a couple of cards here, but at Showtime, Dexter nurse Jackie. Um is there anything you want to mention from your showtime at the moment? Masters of Masters of Sex. I love that series at NBC. She was responsible. Shows like this is us the black list. You've heard of any of the shows. Um, um, she was all, she's right now she's in charge of, um, NBC. Like a lot of production that includes things you're not seeing. You ever watched a Law and Order or? That's right. But then also, then also hacks hack girl, five of any, any winning hack, the Gilded Age bel Air Umbrella Academy. So, really? Yeah. And I, yeah, ok. Stop there Sharon. But I wanted to also point out that, you know, it looks like you're here and you've been here and it's always been like this, this, you know, you talk about the beginning of your career and nobody would give you a job. But even when you're on the path of a career, there are moments that are really challenging and when you ask yourself, can I continue to do this? And I just wanna ask you Deborah because you and I spoke, she was in Prague the other night at 11 p.m. talking to me awfully nice location scouting. Um So that's, you know, the job's fun for sure. But I mean, it's high risk and you mentioned that like that's something if I have it right that 10 years ago. So quit. Yeah, I was out so talk, talk about that. I just, you know, it was a time in the business, knows for sure because I was sitting over your house in tears. But um it was just a time in the business where nobody was interested in making TV or movies about women, about women of color, about people of color. It just was not happening. I would go in the pitch stuff. People's eyes would glaze over and, and, and, and, and honestly, I, I do believe part of my success is that I have been on a mission, you know, like I said, I wanted to have an impact on culture and imagery. And so then all of a sudden I found myself just throwing stuff up against the wall like, oh, this is a story about a dude. It just didn't, you know, it didn't have meaning for me. And if it doesn't have meaning for me, I can't sell it, I can't shape it. And so I, um and so I, I said, finally, I'm like, well, maybe this is the universe's way of saying it's been a good run. You need to think about doing something else. And so I literally spend, I've been at Disney for 20 years, grateful for that. But also, you know, had become kind of legacy wallpaper because everybody who was invested in me personally was long gone. And so I took a year what, you know, I'm still working, but to explore their options, should I practice law, film, finance, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And when I finally decided that no, this is, well, actually Vernon Jordan was the one who, who's a longtime friend and I was 18. I had known him since I was 18 years old and I went in and I told him this whole story was a known expert in the entertainment industry, but like AAA expert in my life in my life and knew me well. And he sat there and he listened to me and poured my heart out and he looked at me and he said, you are too old to do anything else. He said, what a warm heart, right? He said, you, you have a great reputation, you have great relationships, you have great experience, you need to figure out how to make it work. And it was that kind of boom, boom, you know that I was like, yes, you're right. And, and also I want to say one thing, literally, these women have held me up and I know we've helped each other. And so that and for this audience, you know, it's really important to know for a long time and, and that's important. No, it is. Uh Deborah and I actually met, I was a summer clerk. Deborah was a paralegal law firm and it was me and her and Anita Hill. And we were like, we were the three, we were the three black women, right? Yeah. And Anita was AAA summer clerk also. And I've known for Lena since the very early, I was, yeah. Now we work together and now when I took over a studio, I said, what producers do? I want to be in business? He called me uh you know, out of the blue and said, you know, are you interested? And I'm like, yes, yes. So it's the sisterhood is really important that that is so a let's tell you, there's representation that you guys are, have carved pathways for representation. You have created a sisterhood. And i it's really visible um throughout the industry, the number of women of color who are dominating in the industry. It is a, it's Shanda Rai who said that she was your intern or something like that when we talk about mentorship, right? These things really do matter and your careers are long enough that you're not, you're still working and people who were your interns are, no, I like, you know, didn't know at the time but like are in their prime, you know, from Shonda who wrote Princess Diaries Two for me and Hathaway, I discovered and Blake lively and Jesse Williams. I mean, so now all of a sudden, I I got the end with, you know, but it's, it's such an important point because I think these relationships are the things that hold you up in the world and you have to stay close to them. I mean, I have this great relationship with John legend, which is because of you because remember that night, so I called, I called Nina. I said they called me his producing partner called they need a lawyer. Nina was in the car that night met me at John's house, signed John and got the bonus of Chrissy and got the bonus of the whole family. And, and then John called me and said, well, I there's this young woman, she's from Philly, blah, blah, blah, on and on. And it turned out to be Linta Bronson who created this great show, Abbott Elementary. And all of these are this all started with me going to John's house that night with you. OK. So that, that those are all words of wisdom. They're gonna make me rap. I'm not going before I hear from each of you 30 days to the election. Kamala or Trump. What's your case? Oh Come on, we know we know it matters to everybody on this stage. Not. Who are you voting for? Who do you think? Oh, Kamala Car Carolina. Is this a question like three more questions? Kamala? All right. Yeah. OK. You heard it here. Thank you guys.

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