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F500-2021-162-Sherwin-Williams

The paint and coating company began selling ready-mixed paint in 1875. First quarter 2021 net sales were up 8.6% year over year in the Americas Group, largely thanks to a do-it-yourself home renovation craze brought on by the COVID pandemic.

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F500-2020-180-Sherwin-Williams

The paint company develops and manufactures paints and related products and distributes them to consumers and companies.

This year's Fortune 500 marks the 65th running of the list.

This year's Fortune 500 marks the 64th running of the list.

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This year's Fortune 500 marks the 63rd running of the list.

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Wal-Mart stayed on top as its sales crept closer to half-a-trillion dollars. Apple moved into the top five. And UnitedHealth Group continued its steady climb. 

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Sherwin-Williams manufactures and distributes paints, coatings, and related products for residential, commercial, and industrial use. The company operates through a network of company-operated stores and facilities, serving both professional contractors and do-it-yourself consumers. Its product offerings include interior and exterior paints, stains, and protective coatings. Sherwin-Williams also supplies coatings to original equipment manufacturers and industrial markets.

Q2 2026

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Q4 2024

Sherwin-Williams (SHW): Company Profile, Stock Price, News, Rankings

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Sherwin-Williams

sherwin-williams

Good morning. Thank you for joining The Sherwin Williams Company's review of 4th Quarter and Full Year 2024 results and our outlook for the Q1 and full year of 2025. With us on today's call are Heidi Pets, President and CEO Al Mistysian, Chief Financial Officer Paul Lang, Chief Accounting Officer and Jim Jay, Senior Vice President, Investor Relations and Communications. This call is being webcast simultaneously in listen only mode by Issuer Direct via the Internet at www.sherwin.com. An archived replay of this webcast will be available at www.sherwin.com beginning approximately 2 hours after this conference call concludes.

This conference call will include certain forward looking statements as defined under the U. S. Federal securities laws with respect to sales, earnings and other matters. Any forward looking statement speaks only as of the date of which such statement is made, and the company undertakes no obligation to update or revise any forward looking statement, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise. A full declaration regarding forward looking statements is provided in the company's earnings release transmitted earlier this morning.

After the company's prepared remarks, we will open the session to questions. I will now turn the call over to Jim Jay.

Thank you, and good morning to everyone. Sherwin Williams delivered strong 4th quarter results that concluded a record year for the company. In what remained a very choppy demand environment, full year consolidated sales increased slightly driven by our deliberate and targeted investments to gain share and overcome softness in core accounts. Our gross profit dollars and margin expanded, EBITDA dollars and margin expanded and adjusted earnings per share grew by a near double digit percentage to $11.33 a share. Consolidated sales in the 4th quarter increased by a low single digit percentage and gross margin improved slightly over a very strong level a year ago.

As we expected and previously described, year over year growth in SG and A moderated to a low single digit level. Adjusted earnings per share in the quarter increased by 15.5%. In terms of our segments in the Q4, Paint Stores Group sales increased in the range we expected, led by high single digit growth in residential repaint and protective and marine. Consumer Brands Group sales decreased in the range we expected, all related to unfavorable FX as volume and price mix were slightly positive. Within Performance Coatings Group, sales were slightly below expectations as strength in packaging and coil was offset by softness in other divisions.

Adjusted margin expanded year over year in all three operating segments. The slide deck accompanying our press release this morning provides more detail on 4th quarter segment performance. Let me now turn it over to Heidi, who will provide a few full year 2024 highlights before we move on to our 2025 outlook and your questions.

Thank you, Jim, and Happy New Year to all of those that are listening. I hope you had a wonderful holiday season and are geared up for the year ahead. I know you're eager to get to our 2025 outlook, but first I want to take a moment to reflect on what our 64,000 dedicated global employees have achieved over the last year. I am proud of what our team has delivered in 2024. We entered the year amidst an extremely choppy demand environment that quite frankly never improved meaningfully.

We knew this was a possible scenario and we doubled down on controlling what we could control. We stayed true to our strategy. We made targeted investments, focused on share gains and executed on our enterprise priorities. We continued to deliver innovative solutions for our customers and in a disruptive competitive environment, Sherwin Williams stood out by being a consistent, reliable and dependable partner. In addition to the strong margin expansion and earnings growth that Jim described a moment ago, it was another very good year of cash generation, which was $3,200,000,000 or 13.7 percent of sales.

We continued to execute our disciplined approach to capital allocation during the year, including $2,500,000,000 which we returned to shareholders for share repurchases and dividends. In terms of CapEx, we invested $1,100,000,000 including approximately $532,000,000 for our new headquarters and R and D center,

which we expect to begin occupying this year. We ended 2024 with a net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio of 2.2x.

Looking at our reportable segments on a full year basis, paint stores grew by a low single digit percentage. Residential repaint drove the segment growth and increased by a mid single digit percentage. This was strong performance given anemic existing home sales and is the clearest example of a return on our prior investments. New residential and commercial both increased by low single digit percentages in a challenging rate environment. Flattish year over year segment margin reflects our continued growth investments, which we are confident will continue to drive above market sales over the long term.

Consumer Brands had a challenging year on the top line with lower sales resulting from soft DIY demand and unfavorable FX. Adjusted segment margin expanded back to our target level due to higher fixed cost absorption in the manufacturing and distribution operations within the segment. At the same time, we maintained our investments to support our customers despite weaker than expected volume in North America. Performance Coatings sales vary by division and geography. Acquisitions added a low single digit percentage in the year, but was offset by unfavorable price mix and FX.

Goyle was the strongest performer driven by new account wins. We're also pleased with packaging, which returned to growth as we won new accounts and recaptured the majority of previously lost share, just as we indicated we would. Industrial wood was up mid single digits driven by an acquisition. Accelerated share gains in auto refinish were not enough to overcome softness in core accounts driven by lower insurance claims. General Industrial, our largest division remained under the most pressure during the year with softness in heavy equipment demand.

Adjusted segment margin expanded to 18%, the highest level since the Valspar acquisition in 2017. Throughout 2024, we continued to operate from a position of strength. In fact, our confidence in our strategy along with our team's ability execute, led us to increase several of our midterm financial targets at our Investor Day this past August. I am confident we will achieve those targets over time given a more consistent demand environment. As we begin 2025, I'm also highly confident that nobody is better positioned than Sherwin Williams.

During our October earnings call, we were among the first to describe the demand environment as softer for longer, with an expectation that the first half of twenty twenty five would likely remain choppy. 3 months later, we have seen little evidence to change that view and given the indicators that we do see several end markets may not improve until 2026. On the architectural side of the business, residential repaint demand has become slightly more encouraging as existing home sales have begun to show modest signs of recovery and Harvard's lira index shows a return to very slight growth. Residential repaint remains our single largest share gain opportunity and we significantly outperformed the market in 2024 given our targeted investments in sales reps, training and digital tools just to name a few. We would expect similar outperformance in 2025.

Looking at new residential, year over year growth in single family starts has been choppy over the last several months. Rate cuts have had little impact and mortgage rates remain well above 6%. We would expect to continue strengthening our homebuilder customer relationship to outperform the market. In commercial, we've been clear that we expect completions to be soft in 2025 as year over year multifamily starts have been mostly down by double digit percentages since the middle of 2023. Even if commercial starts do pick up in 2025, which seems unlikely given a consistently soft architectural billing index, they won't turn into painting and completions until well into 2026.

Property maintenance spending still appears to be idling in neutral. On the DIY side, we do not currently see a macroeconomic catalyst driving meaningful improvement in consumer demand. On the industrial side, the PMI numbers for manufacturing in the U. S. And Europe have been negative for multiple months, with Brazil and China being slightly positive.

We expect coil to grow again, driven by significant new account wins over the past year and a continued focus on new accounts this year. We're also confident in packaging

as we gain share and support customers' conversion to our industry leading non DPA coatings by 2026 to comply with European Commission mandates. In Protective and Marine, the project pipeline remains solid, though the timing of starts remains variable. We expect auto refinish demand to remain choppy driven by continued softness of insurance claims, though our share gains should become more evident. Industrial wood will likely track with new residential, given the furniture, flooring and cabinetry end markets it serves. We expect general industrial demand to remain soft throughout the year.

In summary, the market is not going to give us a lot of help this year. We'll continue to remain very aggressive with a focus on helping our existing customers grow as well as focusing on targeted share gains. Against this backdrop, we are providing guidance that we believe is very realistic. Should the market be better than we are currently assuming, we would expect to outperform the guidance we are providing to start the year. Moving on to our specific outlook, the slide deck issued with this morning's press release includes our expectations for consolidated and segment sales for the Q1 of 2025.

The deck also includes our expectations for the full year, where consolidated sales are expected to be up a low single digit percentage and diluted net income per share is expected to be in the range of $10.70 to $11.10 per share. Excluding acquisition related amortization expense of approximately $0.80 per share and restructuring expense of approximately $0.15 per share, adjusted diluted net income per share is expected in the range of $11.65 to $12.05 This is a mid single digit percent increase at the midpoint compared to 20 24's adjusted diluted net income per share of $11.33 We provided a GAAP reconciliation in the Reg G table within our press release. Our slide deck contains several additional data points that provide important context that I'd like to touch on here. Any comparisons described are year over year. From a sales perspective, I'll remind you that the Paint Stores Group implemented a 5% price increase effective January 6.

We would expect this to ramp up to typical 50% to 60% effectiveness over the next quarter. We also are implementing very targeted price increases in specific areas within our other 2 reportable segments. We expect the market facet of raw materials to be up a low single digit percentage in 2025. We expect to overcome these raw material headwinds and deliver full year gross margin expansion, driven by incremental 2025 pricing, simplification efforts across our supply chain as well as our paid stores group, which is our largest and highest gross margin segment growing sales faster than the other two segments. We expect SG and A dollars to grow by a low single digit percentage in 2025.

This is a more typical level for us and less than last year's 5% increase. This year's increase includes $80,000,000 of operating expenses for our new building, which will be weighted to our second half. We'll also continue to have some operating expense for our current building until we have fully completed our move. As always, we plan to control costs tightly in non customer facing functions and we have a variety of levers that we can pull depending on a material change to our outlook, up or down. As we've previously described, interest expense will be up this year.

This increase includes $40,000,000 related to refinancing of debt at higher rates, including $850,000,000 in 2024 and approximately $1,000,000,000 expected to be refinanced in 2025. It also includes $20,000,000 of interest related to financing activities of our new buildings. We expect to end the year within our current long term target debt to EBITDA leverage ratio of 2 to 2.5 times. Other general expense items are expected to return to more historic levels in 2025 and increase approximately $75,000,000 due to a gain on sale or disposition of assets of approximately $50,000,000 in 2024 that we do not expect to repeat in 2025 and an increase in our environmental provision of $25,000,000 We expect to open 80 to 100 new stores in the U. S.

And Canada in 2025. We'll also be focused on sales reps, capacity and productivity improvements, systems and product innovation. Next month at our Board of Directors meeting, we will recommend an annual dividend increase of 10.5% to $3.16 per share, up from $2.86 last year. If approved, this will mark the 47th consecutive year that we've increased our dividend. We expect to continue making opportunistic share repurchases.

We'll also continue to evaluate acquisitions that fit into our strategy. In addition, our slide deck provides guidance on our expectations for currency exchange, effective tax rate, CapEx, depreciation and amortization. Finally, I'll remind you that our Q1 is a seasonally smaller one. For that reason, we will not be making any updates full year guidance up or down until our Q2 is completed and we have a better view of how the paint and coating season is unfolding. Our team is operating with great confidence and accountability as we begin 2025.

As we have consistently said, it is only a matter of when the demand environment returns to greater strength, not if. And when that shift occurs, we expect to significantly outperform the market. In the meantime, we are not waiting. We often talk about how we operate, success by design. We have a clear and winning strategy.

We have the best team in the industry and we've made the right investments targeting specific markets and sub segments. We know how to deliver solutions for our customers that will make them more productive and more profitable. We continue to have significant new account and share of wallet opportunities in every business and region. We expect to continue winning more than our fair share of these opportunities. I also am highly confident that our enterprise wide efforts related to talent, simplification, digitization, supply chain responsiveness and sustainability will continue to deliver above market growth.

We get rewarded by overcoming obstacles, finding solutions for our customers and delivering results. We are extremely well positioned to continue delivering shareholder value and that's exactly what we intend to do in 2025. This concludes our prepared remarks. With that, I'd like to thank you all for joining us this morning and we'll be happy to take your questions.

Certainly. Everyone at this time, we will be conducting a question and answer session. Your first question is coming from Gregory Melich from Evercore. Your line is live.

Hi, thanks. Good morning. I wanted to follow-up on the raw material expense as part of the guidance expecting that to rise this year. What commodities or areas are driving that? Are tariffs in any way a factor?

Yes. Good morning, Greg. It's Jim talking. Couple of different things to think about there. Yes, there are some tariffs that are embedded in that.

Those are tariffs that are already in place mainly related to Asian imports of epoxy, which came into effect September November of last year. We're seeing inflation of low single digits in the raw basket. I would tell you that, that is related to industrial resins, TiO2 is up a bit, solvents up a bit, packaging up a bit. In addition to that tariff that I described, we have potential for others. Those aren't in the guide right now on the raws.

We'll see how that unfolds. I think you have to also think about some other factors. You have suppliers with capacity rationalization and decommissioning of their plants, which puts pressure on price as well. So we'll see natural gas is up as well and trending upwards, which is another pressure point. So I think up low single digits to start the year and fairly spread out across the year evenly and fairly spread out across the different commodities.

And Craig, this is Al Mustischian. The one thing I would add is the additional tariffs that we're tracking very closely that are not in our guidance, if those were to occur and they're significant, we would need to go and we're prepared to go out with additional price in specific markets and segments as required. Got it. Thanks and good luck.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Vincent Andrews from Morgan Stanley. Your line is live.

the special items that are in the guidance, particularly the $80,000,000 associated with the new headquarters? I know we've talked a lot in the past about the CapEx and the sale leaseback associated with the HQ, but I think this is the first we've talked about there being such a substantial incremental cost to using this new facility. So I'm just curious if you can help us understand what those are. I don't know in my head I would think the new facility would be more efficient from an energy and a water and all that type of thing. So what's driving the $80,000,000 and how much of it is one time in nature versus non recurring?

And then you also have a step up in the environmental spending and I know that can be that can fluctuate year to year. So is there something special about the spend this year that may not recur next year or is this a new baseline? Thank you.

Yes, Vincent. I'll start with the new building. And the way I think about it is this is a transition year for us as a company as we're not moving into the we're going to start occupying the building as the year goes on. And as we talked about, this is predominantly second half loaded. I thought I'd be remiss if I didn't include some estimate in our cost base to say that as we get better line of sight on the timing of the occupying the building, we can refine that estimate on our July call.

About 20, I'd say, a quarter of that 80 are, what I call transition costs, whether that is moving costs or decommissioning costs related to our old buildings. And yes, they are more efficient. However, I've got a headquarters building that I've been in for 90 years that is fully depreciated. We've made I would say we've made measured repairs to the existing building knowing we were going to get out of this building. But if you look at the ongoing service costs and things depreciation and things like that, we'll get a better line of sight of that when we're completely into the building, new buildings we're operating and we can kind of figure out what's working, what's not working.

So these are estimates that need to be refined. The other comment I would make on the non operating, our assumption is we're going to get back to a more normal environmental cost. These are going to be more first half of an impact because we had credits last year. We don't expect to repeat those. I don't think it I would consider it a step up in environmental provision.

I think we've made good progress on remediation and the further we get with remediation, the environmental provisions will get much clearer. So I think this more of a payback to normal expense in environmental versus maybe some credits in 2024 that I don't expect to repeat.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from David Begleiter from Deutsche Bank. Your line is live.

Thank you. Good morning. Heidi, on the share gain opportunity, can you help frame how that looks to you in terms relative to the PPG business? And looking back to the last year, how much of the Kelly Moore business did you end up picking up? Thank you.

Yes. Good morning, David. Let me start with Kelly Moore just because sequentially, obviously, that's I would say largely or significantly behind us. I don't know that we shared a number and I'm certainly not prepared to share a number today, but I would tell you given how complementary that business model was to us relative to some of the key segments, I'll point to Respiry Paint. We were able to I think be very well positioned.

The team was very aggressive to make sure that we were focused on customer continuity and that we were the house that they wanted to transition to. So we're in a good position there. We expect that to continue into the run rate. As I look at the PPG sale, I would first describe that as an opportunity that we just came out of our national sales meeting and was not able to address over 10,000 of our store managers or reps. And I would tell you right with opportunity is the general sentiment.

When you think about breaking that down in terms of how we look at the share gain opportunity, I think you have to start by segment, and also a little bit by region, size of contractor. We're largely focused with the crossover between property management, certainly commercial, new residential. So we're going to continue to be very aggressive to make sure that we are best positioned across those segments. I will also tell you, we are very focused on quality sales and making sure that we're targeting the customers that candidly value what it is that we do and what we bring to bear with our reps, our stores, our delivery, our tools, everything that we can put in front of them to make these contractors even more profitable than they are today is where we're going to focus. But there's a bit of a time lag.

If you think about the speed in which we're able to pick up a res repaint contractor, While that's not easy and the team is working very hard to do so, you kind of see that return more quickly versus someone more in the property maintenance commercial space might be working will be working on projects that just simply have longer lag periods or could be bigger sized projects in play that are already committed to. So we're working really hard to really try to sync up as the market does recover. We'll see how back half of twenty twenty five goes. But as we look into twenty twenty six, we want to make sure that we are absolutely best positioned to take that share.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from John McNulty from BMO Capital Markets. Your line is live.

Yes, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. So I guess you sounded like there was at least a little bit of optimism in some of the paint store group end markets, particularly resi repaint. I guess, can you help us to think about what your customers are saying about their backlog? I know it's a seasonally kind of odd time or early time, but where is that optimism coming from?

Yes. John, I'll start, here. I think you're right. I mean, we did indicate that there's moderate optimism, if I could kind of even moderate the word optimism. We're aggressively partnering with these contractors that are in the current environment, while the market is still kind of choppy.

You've seen, I'm sure, certainly the lira indicators that paints, likely going to hold up overall, over everything else. But I would tell you part of this is making sure that our teams are looking to intercept. As you look at our current Res Re Paint contractors, our existing contractors, helping them growing their business, helping them market their business, helping them get more leads, close more leads so that they can become more profitable. And then in terms of pursuing share gains and new customers, there is a lot of disruption out there and we are going to continue to be consistent laying in stores, reps, tools, making sure that they're prepared. But I'll hand it over to Al.

Any additional comments you want to make here relative to some of the indicators?

Yes, John. I think I'd just reinforce that we do expect that the demand environment will improve as the year goes on. And I'd highlight that as we've talked about on our Q3 call, as we talked about on this call, the first half is going to continue to be choppy and a continuation of what we saw in our second half twenty twenty four. Our sales guidance, if you will, for the first half would be up or down low single digits and then up low to mid single digits in the second half with our paint storage group being at or above the high end of those ranges. And you're going to we do expect some macro improvement as the year goes on, but we also expect to annualize some of the bigger headwinds on our core business that we saw throughout 2024 that we should with the aggressive new account activity and share wall activity that each of the teams have completed, we start seeing more volume as we go into the second half.

And as you would expect, our earnings will flow in a similar fashion. We expect to be up year over year in our first half, but not nearly as much as we do expect to see in our second half.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Chris Parkinson from Wolfe Research. Your line is live.

Great. Thank you. So in addition to some of the gross spend in terms of stores and sales associates, you've also been spending a decent amount on product breadth and some new products in PSG and kind of getting up on some of the price points. And it sounds like you're pretty enthusiastic on some stuff in PC as well. Could I just ask what are the 2 to 3 largest growth or opportunities that you see in 2025 and 2026 when you step back as CEO regardless of what the macro environment does?

Where are you the most excited? Thank you.

Yes, great question. I think there's a number of items. I would point to where we see continued strength. We would expect to outperform res repaint. Again, I'm going to point to that as an example.

You mentioned how we're looking at product introduction. It's a really good call out because when you think about not only the mix benefit that we see from an emergent standpoint, but our ability to bring solutions to these contractors that value productivity above all, the cost of labor being a significant part of the total cost of the job. We're able to bring technologies. They are more in the premium space because they are absolutely helping these crews to save time, ultimately money on these job sites. And so there's mixed favorability, certainly, which we love because we want to continue to stay kind of cutting edge as leaders and innovating in that space to help these contractors.

So that will be the biggest piece. I think if you look on the performance side, similar to what I mentioned in prepared remarks as well, I would point to coil and packaging as the 2, 3 there. You've got a lot of focus here. Again, the market is not going to help us, but the team has been relentlessly focusing on new accounts, new business wins, fully expect us to continue to do that in both of those segments.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from John Roberts from Mizuho. Your line is live.

Thank you. Do you expect non resi to be down all 2025? Or do we have easy comps in the back end of the year where you might actually have some positive comps?

Yes. John, it's possible that we could have positive comps. There's obviously a number of macro things that have to improve to help us. The biggest being, as you get into interest rates and we've talked about property maintenance and the CapEx shortfalls that we've seen or the lack of investment, I should say, that we've seen, we're again cautiously optimistic as the year goes on. You see some of that improve.

I think commercial, we've been very clear. We do expect to see that drop in our second half, knowing that we've been really aggressive at pursuing new opportunities to try to mitigate that. As the market goes, we're not immune to that macro slowdown, but we certainly are doing everything we can to mitigate it with these other segments, including P and M and trying to accelerate our resi repaint to help minimize that.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Josh Spector from UBS. Your line is live.

Yes. Hi, good morning. I wanted to ask on the CapEx guidance. So I mean, a few things there. One, I guess the $200,000,000 of building spend, is that because the cost of the headquarters is higher?

Or are you now doing more or something different there? And then ex that, even the $700,000,000 guide is a bit higher than probably the $500,000,000 that we're modeling longer term. Is there more growth investments that you're doing that is worth calling out now? Or is there some reason why your sustainable CapEx should be higher looking 2, 3 years out? Thanks.

Yes, Josh. Let me the new buildings $200,000,000 is just the combination of finishing up our R and D center in our headquarters. As you know, we will get reimbursed for a portion of the headquarters CapEx in financing, but it all sits in CapEx. And I'm happy to say this will be the last year you'll hear us talk about CapEx for our new buildings. On the core CapEx, we've targeted 2% of sales.

I expect to be in that target long term. In 2025, we are investing in additional architectural capacity that we've talked about, about our Statesville factory with our confidence in our long term growth initiatives within Paint Stores Group, within Consumer Brands Group, we'll fill that capacity up in a fairly short period of time. And then we're also investing in warehouse automation. As we've talked about with labor constraint in manufacturing distribution, we continue to look for opportunities to automate in those areas to take more weight off the back of our people. So long term, we'll see the benefits of that.

The last thing I'd say is approximately 60% of our CapEx is or has a return on it and we expect to continue to see efficiencies out of our global supply chain related to that. Thank you, Josh.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Duffy Fischer from Goldman Sachs. Your line is live.

Yes, good morning guys. Question on price. So last year you asked for $5,000,000 in February. This year you asked for $5,000,000 in January. So can you do the after action review?

How much did you get last year? What was the shape of that kind of throughout the year would be 1? And 2, how much of that old price still gets anniversary this year? And then does the shape of this year's price look different because you asked for it earlier, would you guess?

Yes, Duffy, I think what we talked about on the price last year, let me start with that. It improved, as the year went on and we had talked about coming into our second half that we'd see a more typical effective rate. So I would say it probably took us longer than we had planned. I would think learning from that, we really led in with a lot of discipline training in the field, making sure we gave our customers enough lead time to get ahead of it. And I would expect that our effectiveness in price will be better earlier this year than it was last year.

It still will take over the next quarter to get to the effectiveness we want, but you'll see a much better effectiveness in our first half this year than you saw last year. And then the annualization, yes, there's some annualization on the increase last year. And obviously, because we went out earlier this year, we'll see more effectiveness in the Q1.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Ghansham Panjabi from Baird. Your line is live.

Thank you. Heidi, as you kind of think about the 6 verticals within PSG, has your 2025 outlook changed in any material way versus your view when you reported 3Q earnings back in October, especially in commercial maybe?

No, it hasn't. And I think Al characterized that really well just a few minutes ago relative to how we're looking at commercial in general. If the market does fare better than we're expecting, we expect to outperform the market. But I think this becomes a softer for longer, with eyes towards 2026 at this point, Ghansham.

Yes, Ghansham. I would just add, I think maybe the rate cuts that the Fed have been doing have not had the effect on the longer term rates that we were expecting. Mortgage rates are still up in that high 6% range. All things that you're talking nuances related to where we were in October and today, but I think we're in line, if you will, across each of the different segments to say, it's plus or minus a little bit, but we're right in line.

Thank you. Your next question is coming from Mike Sison from Wells Fargo. Your line is live.

Hey, good morning. I wanted to get a better feel for maybe some of the headwinds in 2025 in the sense that it doesn't sound like demand is going to be much better in 2025 versus 2024. You got in 2024, you generated pretty good EPS growth of 10%. So if you think about 2025, SG and

Sherwin-Williams (SHW) Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript

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