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Monica Rodriguez

Tokyo 2020 Will Be the First Olympics to Use Facial Recognition to Improve Security

/2018/08/07/tokyo-2020-facial-recognition/

Jonathan Vanian

How New Technology Could Create New Legal Problems

/2016/07/08/technology-new-legal-problems-littler-mendelson/

Hewlett Packard Enterprise Wants to Sell A Key Business For $1 Billion

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Maytha Alhassen, Co-executive Producer and Writer, Ramy
Moderator: Alex Sternlicht, Tech Reporter, FORTUNE

MPW Next Gen 2023 - Creativity And New Tech: Lessons From The Writers’ Room

Conferences

Creativity And New Tech: Lessons From The Writers’ Room

Weeks ago. On May 2nd, the Writers Guild of America went on strike for the first time in 15 years when contract negotiations began. Six months ago, the main contention points were focused on receiving residuals, better pay and more space in the writing rooms. What has evolved from those initial conversations is the use of artificial intelligence in lieu of or in conjunction with storytelling. Chat B four was released in November of 2022 gained public prominence in March of this year. Like many others WGA has expressed concerns about A I and they have asked the alliance of motion picture and television producers to agree to not utilize AI to write or rewrite stories, but rather use it as a tool so that writers can ensure residuals and jobs for the future to discuss the latest on the labor dispute and what the future holds for artificial intelligence in the writers room. Please welcome Metha, Metha Al Hasan, co executive producer and writer for Rami. She'll be joined by fortune tech reporter, Alex Sternlicht. Hi, everyone. I'm so excited to be here joined by who is actually fresh off the picket line. So thank you. For making it down here. Um I'd love to start with a question that I think is on all of our minds. Um What are your thoughts on A I in the writers' room? Is there a place for it at all? Yeah. So this is one that the A MP T P which is the conglomerate of studios came back with our demands around regulating AI with we'll have an annual meeting with information on advancements in technology. So they didn't even want to have this conversation on the table at all, which is frightening actually because not only are we striking on this A I issue? So is S A and D G A and they're in negotiations right now. So where A I could go and the perception that we are replaceable as writers is also confounding because it's the fact that art is the first frontier that they've hit as opposed to their jobs which are looking at ledgers and numbers is fascinating. Why are we drawn to art? Because there's something about the human touch that is encapsulated in what we write and how we see people act stories out. And I mean, if you use chat, chat GPT, you'll get like a breakdown of episodes, but it's incredibly generic. So we know that our power as writers cannot be replicated. However, those folks in the CEO position or executives just care about putting things through algorithms and not the way that we connect to story totally. And you know, as a writer myself, I would like to think that I can also not be replaced by a chat bot but, you know, A I is here to stay. Um So do you think, is there a place for A I in the writers' room at all or are we going cold turkey in your mind against A I, I mean, we're already using A I in some sort of capacity, right? We are using A I when we are looking things up that have been organized by something that is A I generated on the opposite side, maybe it is note taking. But again, the place is that we've designed in a writer's room and I think this is important for people to realize are part of the training to move up in ranks. And this is also the negotiations that we're having. So if you're replacing a writer's assistant to take notes, you're replacing somebody who's learning the process of being in a writer's room. So, I mean, I mean, to be honest, I would use it to write cover letters and things that are formulaic, but I don't think it has a place in art. So you're saying no, no, I mean, I would say no, yes, yes, I would say no. And by the way, my, my responses aren't a reflection of the WGA line on certain things. Of course, just, you know, we gotta, we gotta get this out there he's a W G. I'm a WGA member. Yes. Um So what about streaming? How has that altered the arc of your career? Yeah. So there are some advantages and disadvantages. I entered into the space when streaming was already full steam, the people that were there. And I've met folks on the picketing line that were at the picketing line in 2007. They were mostly dealing with standard networks that had 22 episodes and people that got production experience so you could write, go on set and you understood how to write for production and you had a job all year round. Now, with streaming episodes are getting shorter, there are 10 seasons are getting shorter. There are 10 episodes, there are eight episodes, there's six episodes and you're only working for a show for maybe nine weeks and you might think, oh, but look how much they're getting paid per week. Ok. Now you've got to take the manager's fee, you got to take the rep fee, you got to take the lawyer fee and then you get, they get the growths. So writers are making barely anything with these season orders that streaming has produced because all they wanna do is overproduce content. And again, the advantages is or are that we're getting stories that we couldn't get when there was only, I don't know, 2030 shows on network. But the disadvantages now that we've diversified, the storytelling were regarded as less valuable. Interesting. Um, does anyone in the audience have a question? No. Ok. That's all right. There is, there's a couple now just. Ok. Hello. My name is Zari Capra. Um, this is a great panel so far and as someone who is kind of outside looking in at this whole situation, I'm curious how you could support what kind of ways that we get involved. Yeah. And that's what's been really great about this time around is what we didn't have in 2007, 2008 is a robust social media. And of course, don't wage a war against a public narrative war against writers. You're going to lose with the public and with the public that is feeling the pain that we are all feeling across industries, right? So one way is to retweet, res support all the, the statements that we posted and your solidarity with the writer strike. Another way is to get employers to lend their support. Even the president has said this is unfair for you to continue and to not negotiate fair terms. And then a third way is we have a, we have two funds, we have a writers' fund and then we have an artist entertainment fund. I don't know the exact name, but that's for the other people who are not in the WGA that are losing so much the writer's assistance. And so they're going to be able to tap to this pool if folks donate. And what about unions? Like having, you know, walking on the ticket line uh daily. Do you think that unions are the best way for large groups of professionals to advocate for their causes? I, I mean, it's, it's proven a way to push the needle. Now, the, the only thing that I've seen in studying labor history that's been a challenge um is not being able to anticipate the, uh the, the way that an, an employer or C suite or whatnot is gonna squeeze you. And so again, like Starbucks unionizes and they close down that Starbucks store that, that has unionized, but I do think the power of the union is strong and W G A has proven multiple times that when they go full in and by the way, this vote was authorized 98% by our, our W G A body. Um that not only are we contending with um more power, more mobilizing power, but we encouraged S A DJ, all of the Hollywood unions to join us and they're renegotiating their contracts now too and teamsters as well. So teamsters are responsible for transportation. Um and before they weren't with us in 2007. Yeah, I mean, but what about, you know, you mentioned the squeeze. Yes, when you go back to work, which eventually will happen, do you think that there will be repercussions from executives um to people who are on the picket line? And we're super loud. Hm. Uh, I don't. Yeah, I'm, I, I wonder if that were to be the case, if they identified a target, if that would make them even more vulnerable. Because then I think people would feel like, ok, we're being punished for, you know, speaking out against our, our, you know, what, we're entitled to compensation wise. And I, again, I think that because this, this battle, I guess you could say this fight is being waged also on social media, but that's not gonna fly. Yes. Well, I mean, but I mean, I mean, I'm not gonna fly but of course, like, you know, when you're in your workplace and you've been super vocal about the way that you were mistreated. I think there's a lot of repercussions. I'm not, I, I'm not in the room. Yeah, I mean, I can't anticipate what that looks like. What is it? Netflix saying I'm not gonna work with this writer or they're not gonna be a co creator on this show or they're not gonna be staff maybe. Who knows? Yeah. So time will tell on that. I think we had another audience question. Thank you. This is incredibly interesting. My name is and I'm curious about um the responsibility and opportunity for shows and executives with writers to create the vision of the vision of the future we want to see to right size, the problematic narratives that are permeating our society and A I is generative of a world of the world we knew which might potentially perpetuate, right? Those problems. And so I'm curious about that tension uh because there are also a lot of show runners and executives who are out in the, in the world, sort of post jobs, et cetera saying, what can we do and what kind of narratives can we write? But if we don't have the people who are living those experiencing experiences writing that. Right. So I'm just wondering if that's been a part of the conversation? Is that a consideration of what is, what does that look like? Yeah, I mean, there's, you get a group of writers walking the line all day for like 56 miles and four hours. We're thinking a lot about things, right? And of course, a show like Black Mirror, if folks are familiar with it has eerily presented scripts of the near future that have been pretty consistent, isn't it wild? How Black Mirror seems to be projecting many different things that work? I mean, it's just like literally one step away. I think, you know, there are conversations that for so long we've invested in storytelling that has been this dystopian post apocalypse, lots of sand, lots of tattered clothes, not good food, vision of the world. I think we're interested in thinking about how do we harness technology and not be behind it and be in the front of it this time to create a vision of the world. And I love what you were saying that gives us different imaginary. So for example, why is an ai being used to replace all the low wage, minimum wage jobs that we don't want to do and let us do the art that we want to live and survive on versus the drudgery that feels like it's soul crushing. And what could it look like to say? Ok. A I handle how this, everything's going to be cleaned and A I do my taxes, right. Um Wouldn't that be amazing? So we don't have that much time left. Um In closing, you know, we all love TV, we all, you know, we love our writers and we want them to come back. What should people know about um the future of TV and the future of creative professionals in this strike? OK. So I'm going to tell you a couple of things and some numbers that are interesting and some facts that are interesting. So what we are asking for based on the revenue of the studios that are in a MP T P is less than 0.2% of their annual revenue per year and in some cases, 0.1%. So it's a fraction. And by, I think this week or next week they're going to have lost the amount of money they could have spent on negotiating this contract. Another thing is that in 2007, when there was a strike, what did they decide to do, renew a failing show called The Apprentice. So you're gonna get a lot of reality television. I think ABC just announced their schedule and it's literally 80% reality, like celebrity Jeopardy reruns of Avid Elementary that you can watch on Hulu. Um, it's a bleak vision for the world of storytelling that we would want to live in and I'm not knocking reality television. I'm a big consumer of it as well. But if you want that to be 90% of your TV, viewing diet, um, there are going to be consequences. Um, well, I, you know, love reality TV, but I'm also excited for the scripted shows to come back. So, thank you so much for your time. This has been a really wonderful panel. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you for.

Lydia Bottegoni, Executive Vice President, Story and Franchise Development, Blizzard Entertainment Nicole LaPointe Jameson, Chief Executive Officer, Evil Geniuses Moderator: Polina Pompliano, FORTUNE

MPW Next Gen 2023 - Gaming's Next Frontier

Lydia Bottegoni, Blizzard Entertainment 
Nicole LaPointe Jameson, Evil Geniuses 

Our next speakers are innovating and adapting to meet the ever changing needs of their consumers as technologies evolved. So has the gaming and e sports industry in the nineties PC gaming became increasingly more popular with the release of first person shooting games like Doom and Quake. In 1997 evil geniuses was founded by a clan of quake players who would compete against one another in cyber cafes. Wow. Remember cyber cafes as computers advanced throughout the two thousands. So did social and online gaming insider Intelligence reported that more than 532 million people watched sports in 2022 to talk about the future of E sports and gaming? Please welcome Lydia Bud Goni, senior vice president for story and franchise development at Blizzard Entertainment and Nicole Lapoint Jamison, chief executive officer at evil geniuses. Ok. Well, welcome. Thank you. So, Lydia uh big news, European regulators just cleared Microsoft 68.7 billion deal, billion dollar deal um to acquire Activision Blizzard. What does this mean for the company and the industry at large? Um Well, it means we just cleared a hurdle. That's because there's been a few that we haven't cleared yet either. So, um I'm not really sure where it goes next. I mean, it, it, you know, it hasn't finalized the deal. Um, we remain really hopeful that the deal closes. I'm personally really excited about the possibilities and what Microsoft will bring to our ability to scale and grow our franchises. So, fingers crossed. I'm, I'm staying positive. Awesome. And Nicole, um, you have a multi year agreement with Hewlett Packard enterprises to support evil geniuses, evil. Yeah, evil geniuses with industry leading A I services. How are you using A I to improve your talent pipeline and also generate these like winning strategies. Explain to us how that works, of course. So if you're completely unfamiliar sports is competitive video games and like pro athletes, all the information and data needed to not just recruit and manage but perform at the highest level, you have to be cutting edge. So we actually have partnered with HPE. It's a multi year partnership using their Green Lake Solution, their A I and M L platform to help create first in class insights around not just optimizing bioinformatics of our players, like muscle memory, fast twitch movement, eye tracking, but also natural language processing. How do they communicate in the game all the way to what are the markers of a good sports athlete to continue to create this entertainment platform for years to come? So interesting, we were talking earlier. What, what are some of the markers for a successful sports athlete range is by title. So as you can imagine a basketball player, what makes a great basketball player is not the same as a football player. And that finesse and nuance is also just as differentiated between a counter strike player and a league of legends player. So we look at seeing some variation by game but some similarities of the soft skills of what makes a great team athlete communication movement. But also those that carry themselves more with the physicality and mentality, hydration, sleep communication tend to be better pro players as well. So it's not just kids in basements who've never seen sunlight, those who show up and really care and do well on top of all of the more technical and mechanical skills very indicative of performance. And I found this fascinating Lydia. So I moderated a panel earlier on A I and it's been reported that Blizzard Entertainment wants to integrate AI into the art pipelines for games, which you know, that would allow companies to create art assets at a faster pace. But then there's also game developers that are worried about, you know, job security and what's going to happen there. Is that a real concern? And how do you see this A I powered future? Yeah, I mean, look, it's a, it's a huge topic. I think it's a topic that's been dominating some of the conversations today and some of your, some of your panels um I'm not an A I expert, I'm not the best person to really speak to that. Um But, you know, personally, I, I'm really excited about the opportunities it's gonna bring. Um, you know, I've made a career for 20 plus years in um managing and producing creative endeavors. And for me, it's just super exciting to think of like how much creativity it might unlock. Right? So what things that people do now that aren't always part of the creative process or that are redundant or things where we can um you know, uh speed up some of the the efforts might that be interesting? You know, it just seems like it's a really interesting opportunity clearly, we're at the infancy of it. Um I'm excited to see where it goes. We need it to happen carefully, we need it to be ethical, we need it to be lawful. A lot of those areas haven't really caught up, you know, the legal system hasn't really caught up with the technology yet. So, yeah, I'm just really excited to see where it goes next. Yeah. And I'm really fascinated and just digging into your background and work at Activision. Like, how do you encourage creativity and risk taking among the animators, the visual artists, these like game developers? Oh um How do we encourage risk taking? Well, creative people generally by nature don't have to be encouraged to think outside of the box. Um My experience has been usually you're kind of working in the office that there's a lot of big ideas and you're trying to pull them in and figure out what you can execute. Um Because, you know, we're always working against timelines and schedules and budgets at times as well. Um So, yeah, I, I think just really looking at ways to support artists and give them tools to do things faster, to make, you know, redundant processes, you know, more automated, allows a lot more free thinking. And in general, I think your question was about risk taking. I think creative ideas are all born out of some kind of, you know, what if we tried this or what if we approached it a little different. And as a company, you are very encouraging of that risk taking. Yeah. Well, for the team that I manage, I manage a trans team, so I don't manage game developers, I manage a team that makes cinematics and trailers and books and comics and statues. And again in that, in that circle, it's really exciting to see people try to do something a little bit different. Um We've had a campaign recently for a big game. We have coming out called Diablo Four. Um And we've done some really interesting new things. We had a new cinematic called by Three. They come, which was one of our most watched and best received and, you know, pretty groundbreaking visual experience. Um Our marketing team tried something new in um Europe, they did a collaboration with um during Milan Fashion Week with some fashion designers, we took over a cathedral and did a diablo version of, you know, cathedral going to hell kind of thing. I'm sure they love that. Yeah. Um but you know, just again, really different, interesting takes on things and so yeah, try trying to push that envelope. Um I'm gonna come to you guys for a question. So again, please raise your hand. Uh And we'll get a mic to you. Uh Nicole, you focus very heavily on data. Uh And you told me some really interesting lessons that you've learned. Um But can you share that with the audience and like what you've learned in building this out for the first time? So data is incredibly important, not just from competitive integrity and excellence, but also there's a huge tension in the gaming space where at least in the US, over 45% of women under the age of 35 are gamers. They play games on different platforms, but in my universe at pro play, less than 10% of pro players are female and that delta in between is confusing and also poses a business problem of we're not reaching the true breast of the competitors or the fans we should be. And so using data to be a accelerator to equity and an equalizer has led to some really interesting moments for us. I'll give one example, we led a blind combine through data scouting similar to what you saw and the symphonies back in the day and surprise, surprise with a blind combine, we were the first ever team to front a mixed gender roster in a non inherently gendered space because people knew some of the perceived cultural barriers would go away if it was about merit and skill and continuing to do things like that where we can show that results can come. And we cast Wide Nets has led to big wins for us. Most female head coaches in any e sports organization, over 60% of our staff on the gaming side are actually female coming from backgrounds, not just in gaming, but from the medical profession to Teslas and Googles and Data sciences. And without that data equity opportunity, I don't know if we would have had the the fast paced outcome that we've seen that's really helped us continue to lift trophies and my 14 year old daughters. Thank you for that. Who are gamers? They, you're, you're clearing the way for them. Thank you. It's really cool. Any questions so much? Alright, we'll come back. Um So going off of what you just said, uh Lydia there, there's, you know, still this perception that gaming is largely male dominated. Um But you said that whenever you talk to young female high school students, you remind them that if their passion is games, there are many other options beyond just being an engineer or a developer or something like that? What are some of the areas that you think present a massive opportunity for female or for women to get into the gaming industry that aren't as obvious? Yeah. Well, the, so the, the comment was really about wasn't really supposed to be gender specific. It was really about the notion that um working in games. It's a business, there's a broad array of ways to, to engage in that. I'm not a developer, I'm not an artist, but I was able to find a career in an area that I'm really passionate about. And so for me, I think it's just important that people realize we're so stem focused right now. Everything about math and science, math and science. Again, I have young daughters, they're not engineers, they're not interested in coding. And so they feel like they're locked out of so many opportunities by that. Um I just like to remind people, we have finance people, we have hr we have writers on my team, we have, we have writers, we have visual development artists. I have people who draw comics. Um I have a sculptor on my team. So really the point is, you know, there are a ton of opportunities in the gaming space and it doesn't just mean you have to be somebody coding and, and Nicole uh you are involved with some uh interesting organizations. How do you make sure you amplify these voices? Um So at the end. And I'll echo what Lydia just said. The like in game to board room representation of anyone, especially not just from the traditional gaming background is important because we need, we operate more like a traditional sports team. If you view or a collegiate athletics department where we need sales people, we need marketers and the innovation and thought that we bring to these areas to continue to grow is important. And that often oftentimes means you need disruptive mindset from different spaces. So we look to collaborate, not just with partners like Hewlett Packard Enterprise, but all the way from toy to LG to even we did a collaboration with the current Little Mermaid Hallie and Chloe to teach them how to play Rocket League actually. And so the more we can create exposure to the space, understanding, break down some of the stereotypes or connotations that exist, the better we're able to all move forward as a business. But also capitalize the facts that if even if you've never heard of sports, I evil geniuses, we reach over 300 million kids, boys and girls a month across social. We have active eyes and hearts and wallets and that's an impactful movement like fashion, like music. So how we embrace and shape emerging pop culture through gaming. Very valuable to pay attention to and what are, what are the age ranges of your target demographics? Well, uh who do you want or who do you have, I mean, uh Blizzard has quite a few legacy IP S games like World of Warcraft has been around for 20 years, the Warcraft franchise, almost 30 years. So you can imagine. And thankfully, I can say we have players that have been with us that entire time. Um We have a newer game in Overwatch, which is almost seven years old now, um which is almost aged out in the world of video games. Um But we've had new expansions on a great new content that that game is, you know, ex as exciting as ever. But it's at the um the other end of the spectrum for us, you know, you want the demographic that's gonna engage with your game, attach and stay with you. Again. My team is involved in bringing people into the ecosystem, not through gaming. So I don't work on the actual product of the game nor the sports, but kind of any other place that you touch the game. So comics or cinematics or episodes, we have novels and is the point of those other elements to attract a new audience in a different, yeah, we're trying to bring people into the franchise a lot we've seen in the gaming space. Finally, we're starting to get some really great content in linear media. We're seeing TV, shows like the last of us that it's phenomenal. Some, there have been some big movies recently as well that have done pretty good in the in the box office. Um And so, yeah, the idea is that we sort of meet our players where they are. And even if you don't play the game, the intent of my team is to find a way to connect with that audience. We want people who are going to come in and stay with us. So I don't know that there's always a target demographic coming from the film industry. You want the 18 to 25 year olds, but in gaming, you want them if they're going to stay with you too. And how valuable is it that it to retain that? I huge. I mean, it's what brought me to Blizzard. I had 20 plus years in the film industry working on a lot of really big franchises and titles. And when somebody reached out to me and talked to me about an opportunity to manage and oversee a small animation studio at a game company called Blizzard Entertainment. It was just, it was over the moon with excitement because the depth of the world and the universes and the amount of potential on those ips. I mean, I just literally saw it as an IP gold mine again in the film making business. That's what you live for. So, so I want to ask you both this question to kind of close up. But other than a I, what other emerging technologies do you see as having the biggest impact on the gaming industry in the next 5 to 10 years. What I love thinking about technology. So evil genius has been around since the late nineties. And if you think about what video games even looked like and how they were accessible from then now and the rate of technology and even medium development from PC to console to mobile, to handheld, the more we create accessibility, different price points and better bridge globally. Unlike Lydia and her team, we don't own the IP of the games. So we live in this in between space where our fans are very, very valuable because also unlike a sports team, you know, my parents went to BC. So by I was a Red Sox fan growing up. But like why are you a fan of an E sports organization that's digital and global? So how we create that brand identity and reach those fans is really our secret sauce and who we also have to keep sticky and loyal over years. And the more we create accessible gaming and accessible technology, we subsidiary receive the benefits of that. And so as things get faster, lighter cheaper, we get excited. It was just all thrown one additional thing. I know A I is the big topic and it's kind of the sexy subject. Interactive. I, even though I work at a game company, the work that I do and the history I come from 20 plus years of CGI and visual effects and computer graphics, the world of interactive game engines and the ability to render things in real time and the ability to do things today. At the touch of a of a mouse clicker keyboard button. That 20 years ago when I started my career in this industry, we couldn't even imagine how to solve those problems. Much less, make it instant the way it is today. So interactive technologies, game engines are so powerful, the tech stacks that are developed to run some of the big games like World of Warcraft, they're so powerful and finding the different ways to apply them for me is super exciting. Amazing. What a great note to end on. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Mandana Dayani, Creator and Co-founder, I am a voter.
Shannon Watts, Founder, Moms Demand Action
Moderator: Michal Lev-Ram, FORTUNE

MPW Next Gen 2023 - Mobilizing the Next Gen Of Voters

Our next founders are inspiring political change through advocacy. They're harnessing public partnerships and social media to raise awareness on issues that affect many Americans. Madonna Diani is the creator and co founder of I am a voter, a nonpartisan organization that aims to increase voter turnout and raise awareness around civic engagement after the tragic shooting in Sandy Hook, Connecticut in 2012, Shannon Watts, founded Moms Demand Action, a grassroots organization fighting against gun violence. They are joined by my colleague, fortunes editor at large, Mikal Lev. OK. So, um I want to start by asking you both about your personal journeys and we heard just a little bit about what your organizations do but, but tell us your personal stories, what led you to start them? So, and Donna, I'll start with you and you've done a lot in your career. You don't have to go into everything but tell us what matters for getting you to this point. Yeah. Well, thank you for having us here today. Um So I, I was born in Iran. Um and we fled, I would say when I was almost six years old and went to, you know, to Italy and then gained asylum to come to New York. Um So we have an organization called, I think that experience fleeing my homeland, coming to America was incredibly formative, not just in my patriotism for America, but also just this deep connection to refugees and what that experience is like. Um And really lived my whole life in this like pursuit of the American dream. My brother became a surgeon and I was told I had to become an attorney. And so, um I became a lawyer which I did not enjoy. And then I worked as uh as a talent agent and then I worked in fashion and entertainment and tech and I've had a lot of careers which I guess is for a different panel. Um But a few years ago when I saw, I was, I just had my second daughter and I saw the child separation policy unfold on television. Um It was incredibly just triggering to see, you know, that this country that had saved my family. Like I remember arriving at New York, I remember holding my mom's hand. I remember like this feeling of like, OK, we're going to be OK that the most vulnerable population in the world would come to America in pursuit of freedom and we would rip their Children out of their hands and in many cases, lose them. Um And I felt like this can't be right. And I got on a plane, I went to Torneo Texas. And I was like, it just felt that there was something broken in the humanity in our country. And so I went in this pursuit of how I could apply all the things that I did to help and met with different members of Congress and Senate. And everyone kept being like, well, if you want to make change in here and here and here and here, we just need higher voter turnout and obviously not knowing anything. I was like, that's not going to be hard. Um Think about how many brands and films me and my friends launch every year, like, like how hard is this? Um And so I did what I always do when I need to figure something out and I emailed all the smartest women that I know and we all came together and really started to build the beginning of this movement called I'm a voter um C A joined the town agency as our co founder. And yeah, it's been crazy. Shannon. Can you share your story? Yeah, I mean, I think there's some, some similar themes in there, which is, you know, I was a stay at home mom of five, living in a suburb outside of Indianapolis when the Sandy Hook School shooting happened in 2012. Um I had really never been politically active. I was in corporate communications. I was taking a five year break and like, I'm sure so many of you in this room I sat down and just sobbed as I watched the news that 20 Children and six educators have been slaughtered in the sanctity of an American elementary school. And like Madonna said, you know, this idea that humanity was broken, that Congress would likely do nothing after that happened. And I thought, ok, there has to be something like mothers against drunk driving, which was so influential to me growing up in the eighties. Um But for gun safety and I went online and uh I found a bunch of think tanks run by men in Washington DC. Uh I found some city and state organizations also mostly run by men. I knew I wanted to be part of a badass army of women. It's who I've seen get so much done in this country over and over and over again. So I started a Facebook page. I had 75 Facebook friends. I had no Twitter handle and I just wrote that it was time for women to rise up against the gun lobby and that went viral and it has turned into the largest grassroots movement in the nation. We are twice the size of the N R A now with 10 million members and we have passed over 500 good gun laws. We've stopped the N R A S agenda 90% of the time every year in state houses for the last eight years. Um And we've elected hundreds of our own volunteers to office So, um I, since, since you brought some of this up, I think it's a good segue. You know, there's, we see, we all read the news. I think it impacts us every time. I hope it does. Um But uh, you know, I think it's easy to walk away from reading all of that and thinking there's just, there's no progress made and you, you have a different take on it. So can you share with us a little bit more about, you know, why you do see progress there? Uh Just to be clear, special interests want you to feel hopeless and helpless. They want you to believe that this is the way it's going to be, that you're going to always have to put gun lobby profits above public safety if you go back in time, you know, that's not true. Otherwise people would still, you know, be encouraged to drink and drive. Um People would still have unregulated opioids like special interests have power until they don't and they are losing power. You know, I would not have woken up every day for the last decade and done this work as a full time volunteer. If I didn't think that we weren't winning, we are the NRA is weaker than it's ever been. They are hemorrhaging political power and dollars and meanwhile, we are stronger than we've ever be. And I, I was giving some examples in the intro of how much progress that we've made you know, last summer after the shootings in Buffalo and Uvalde, we passed the bipartisan Safer Communities Act in Congress. Why is that such a huge deal? Because when I started doing this work in 2012, a quarter of all Democrats in Congress had an a rating from the NRA today, not one does. And in fact, 15 Republicans signed on to that bipartisan Safer Communities Act. So we are making huge progress. Hopefully, you saw that in the last couple of weeks, we've passed assault weapons and sweeping gun reform legislation in places like Washington and Michigan and Colorado. And now Minnesota, these are places that were solidly red or purple a decade ago. Um So I, as you can tell, have a lot of hope around this issue and I just simply don't believe that any of us in this room are willing to send our loved ones into public places, not knowing whether they'll come home. Um Please raise your hand by the way at any point if you have questions or, or comments. Um But uh a, a big theme of this conversation is women pushing for change, right? And, and you talked about how you kind of called your, you know, your boardroom, you called the women that you are your, the smart women in your life. Um And, and one of them was Shannon. I'd love to hear more about just your relationship, how you guys connected in the uh vacation together. Now, apparently so. Um, yeah, when I, you know, when I was starting, I'm a voter. I didn't, I really didn't know what I was doing in many ways. I, I knew how to build a brand and I knew how to get people engaged and how to make people feel something. Um, and I was Deborah, who's one of the women who helped found I'm a voter and I were together and she asked me like, well, how do we figure out organizing grassroots movements? And I said, I don't know, we call Shannon Watts. How do we talk to Shannon Watts? And she, I was like, let me D M her. And um four days later I was at the airport and, uh, Shannon and my phone rings and it's like, hi, Madonna, this is Shannon Watts. You would think Beyonce was calling me. I mean, she, to me was like the biggest, like celebrity of all time. And so, and that's just what she does. She's amazing. And we got on the phone and I, you know, she became my mentor and one of my closest friends, but it really was, hey, Shannon, is it weird? I mean, we're 25 women. Am I supposed to care? Are there men that are supposed to be a part of this? And she's like, what are you talking about? Um, and you know, it really, all of us do this as volunteers. All these are the most incredible women. And so that it's so funny because it took so late in my career for me to embrace vulnerability. And, you know, I was the person that I always thought like no one was gonna come to my birthday party. So when we started, I'm a voter and we developed this idea and these toolkits and I emailed, I wanna say like 1000 people I had worked with across all of these different sectors, the panic and fear in me of like, oh my God, what is everyone going to say? And, and I just share that it was overwhelmingly positive that the response was thank you so much. No one has ever asked. Um And that was so important to me because I realized how many people have such incredible skills that they can put towards activism and the issues that they care about, but are so rarely asked or provided opportunities to show up. And I think by us creating a place and a mechanism for companies and brands and influencers and, and communities to participate. I mean, like we now engage with hundreds of brands and thousands of communities and people in cities. And um I think that's what you've done so incredibly well with moms demand action was just creating an opportunity and a mechanism for people to just get off the sidelines. Um Obviously, everything is so politicized and polarized now and what you're both doing when it comes to, to gun violence, um You know, voter voting rights. Uh all, all of this civic engagement um somehow has become so politicized. Um And I wonder if you have any thoughts on just how you carry on these conversations, how you get in the right rooms. Uh And you reach out to different people and, and I wanna start with you because I know when we were talking earlier, you brought up your family's traditions of Shabbat dinners uh to uh anybody who's been to a Shabbat dinner, I think every culture, every religion has a version of that, of course. But, but talk, talk a little bit about what Shabbat has to do with all of this. You know, I sometimes I feel like that same theme of we've lost humanity. Like, you know, with Shabbat dinner, you sit across from people that don't agree with you all the time, your crazy uncle, you know, we all have them, right? Yeah. And you learn to find common ground. And I think in some ways and I think that you do this so brilliantly with your work. But I, you know, I talk to companies about this all the time, which is like if you actually zoom out there's so much that we agree on and so much of that is within the values. And so like if you can say, hey, as a company, we agree that we want our employees and our customers to feel safe, we can all agree on that, right. And so maybe the mechanism in which that appears is something that we can discuss. But sometimes there, there's just so much more common that we share and this ability to just have conversation, have disagreement, learn from each other. Um has been so helpful in applying weirdly in, in this work. Um And, you know, I talk to companies so much and, and obviously a big part of Judaism is giving back and we talked about stuff and, and, and these incredible virtues and you know, trying to explain to companies that, you know, doing good is good for business. You know, customers more than ever. Now see that the purchasing decisions they make as an extension of their values. Like we make a choice every day between Patagonia and North Face. And so we know that that is a signal to others about our values. And so when we do that and we're putting our money for something, we expect brands to have our backs and we expect them to show up, we expect them to do good and it ultimately affects your profitability, like you're making all these investments in technology and efficiency, but it helps with employee retention, it helps with customer retention because at the end of the day, like you can have super clear like modern packaging and you can ship within 24 hours, but your customer is going to care if you're hurting someone that they love and those things are not separate, like to be a brand that exists and thrives particularly with the younger generations that cares more than any other generation and is more diverse than any other generation. These values that we talk about are inherent in your brand and your success. And while we're going over to you, um Shannon just real quick, same, same question. Um you, you, you also know how to like stick it to people when you want to for sure. So it's not all, you know, let's all gather and hug each other. But, but how do you just very quick take away is what you've learned on reaching across to people who may not agree with you all the time. You, you know, people always talk about gun violence prevention as though it's polarizing. It's actually not 90% of Americans support background checks. It's only polarizing among gun extremists and I'm not wasting my time trying to get gun extremists to support what we're doing. I'm trying to get what has been the silent majority to use their voices and their votes on this issue when we ask volunteers why they come. But then stay staying is the harder part with a volunteer base. It's two reasons. One they feel we're winning and that's because we celebrate wins. We talk about the fact that we're winning and two, it's because they find their people, right? Even in the toughest of states, the reddest of states where this can be a different issue in gerrymandered state legislatures are volunteers find their people and those people become the best friends that they've ever had. So, there's a, there's a reason that they keep coming back and it's, it's to find the people that they want to spend their time with. That's so funny. That's what you just asked me before. And you said, what's the most rewarding work I've ever done? And I said I'm a voter because it led me to these people in my life that I have today and that's completely changed my life and you didn't find them at the law firm. Apparently I did not. Ok. Question over here, please stand up. I am Jennifer a couple of so, first of all, um Thank you for um tackling these issues in the ways that you are tackling them and your optimism around them is actually incredibly refreshing. Um The question I have for you because whether it's on this big stage that you sit on or in smaller stages where we're tackling different issues, how you were dealing with or addressing the amount of progress that you think you're making or that you see yourself making because you've been working on this, as you said for many years. And I think when you sit and try to think about how much progress have I actually made to achieving what we're trying to achieve. How are you thinking about that? How are you um, not getting discouraged? Um because we're taking steps forward and taking steps back. Like, how do you stay motivated and stick to it because you believe you ultimately get there. Like, I'd love to hear your perspective on that. Yeah. I mean, from my perspective, you don't get involved in any activism, but especially activism where you're taking on one of the largest, most powerful, wealthy, special interests that's ever existed. Right? You don't get involved in that and think I'm going to win this overnight. Although I kind of did, like you were saying, I thought, oh, this won't be that hard. Um Little did. I know I'm really grateful. I was so naive at the beginning, but we have come up with several mantras in our organization. One of them is keep going. Our volunteers actually get that tattooed on them. Um And then the other man like a real tattoo. Oh Our volunteers get tattoos every year. We have gun since university and all, a lot of the groups go get tattoos, our brand saying it's a thing. Um I've escaped that so far. But this idea of losing forward, right? Making sure people don't feel defeated when they experience those losses because we were very much David versus Goliath. And what we have said is yes, we're gonna lose, we're gonna win more than we lose. But when we lose, we're going to learn how to lose forward. So the next time we win and just for an example in Arkansas. When we started doing this work, we were really having a hard time getting a chapter there. Guns on campus. Sailed through the state legislature, the governor signed it standing next to an N R A lobbyist. It so incensed women across the state of Arkansas that our chapter grew exponentially, so quickly that we went in and carved out an exemption so that you could not bring your guns to a tailgate where alcohol is served. I mean, hello. So then the next year, two volunteers ran for office. One of them beat the guy that put the guns on campus bill forward by 12 points. A retired nurse who became a monster man, a volunteer. None of that would have happened if we hadn't lost originally on the guns on Campus Bill. So we really are always telling stories and I think Madonna would agree. A lot of activism is storytelling. What is our narrative? Our narrative is that we are winning and we are going to win if we don't give up? Take one more, very brief question over here. The story thing is such a big deal. I'm Britt. A and thank you for everything that you're doing. I think it's not just about um fighting the fight against those that want to have their weapons with them all the time. It's also the mental health piece of it. I have a 10 year old boy five years ago or so. He was going to kindergarten. I remember driving him to school on the second day of kindergarten and he says to me in the back seat, mom, we had a lockdown drill yesterday and I didn't even know how to react. And I said, what do you mean you had a lockdown drill? And he explained that they hid in the closet. Uh And they had to be super quiet because there might be bad people in the building, something like that. I start crying in the front seat as I'm driving him to school, totally unprepared for any of that. And fast forward to today, 10 years old every day. He says to me when I drop him off at school. All right, mom, I love you don't die today and he just is continuously focused on potentially bad things that could happen. And I don't even think he even realizes that it could be a mass shooting or something like that. But it's all of these things that are, are creating that anxiety for young people which we know then they grow up and then we have these mental challenges with older people, young adults who are trying to process their anxiety, their issues, et cetera. It's all connected. So what do we, what can we all do about it? You have, you have 10 seconds. I wish we can do about it. I think we all expect other people to do the work for us and we read the news and we hope that other people are getting involved and the reality is we all have to be activists. Walker says activism is a rent I pay to live on the planet. We aren't numb as a nation. We are traumatized. And so I would just ask you to become volunteers. Thank you so much for being here and, and sharing some hope with us. Yeah. Thank you.

Tracee Ellis Ross, Chief Executive Officer, Pattern Beauty 
Interviewer: Emma Hinchliffe, FORTUNE CLOSING RECEPTION 


MPW Next Gen 2023 - Pattern Making

After wrapping up on the show, girlfriends actress Tracy Ellis Ross wrote her first hair care brand pitch in 2008, not long ago, but following several meetings with potential partners and investors, she was met with little interest. She then chose to invest her own funds into working with a chemist and manufacturer who could develop the products. She envisioned ones that focused on curly coy and tight textured hair. And after more than a decade, she took the findings connected with Beach House Group to launch Pattern Beauty to discuss what's next for Pattern Beauty. Please welcome Pattern Beauty's CEO and founder Tracy Ellis Ross and fortune, senior writer, Emma Hinch. Hi. Um Hi, everybody. Tracy. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. We're so excited. So you founded Pattern Beauty based on your experience and to solve the problem that you saw in the beauty industry. What was that problem? It wasn't a problem. It was a gap. Yeah, a big giant gap. I felt like the products that existed for the curly coy and tight texture community were the same products that my mother and my grandmother had had access to that, the shelf space hadn't changed. It was still in the back of the store. And I as a curly coy gal had spent my childhood kind of making sense of my hair and trying to figure out which products existed and dreaming of having the perfect products that actually were effective, were safe for my hair and looked beautiful in my bathroom. And so and so pattern was born. I mean, it's a bit of a longer journey than that. I'm not gonna lie. Um From the moment I wrote my first hair care brand pitch um until we ended up on shelves. It was 11 years. Um It was right when I finished girlfriends and I really set out to create a company that was not just about sales, but really was also about the love of humanity. And so there was a lot involved in that and there were also a lot of nos and there was a lot of, there were a lot of naysayers, but it really was about filling a gap in the market that had existed for a really long time. Yeah, let's talk about that decade long 11 year journey. What happened over those 11 years. How long do you have? Um Well, it started with um I was not from a family of entrepreneurs, so I didn't know. And you know, a lot of people say they say dream big, but they don't talk to you about how you turn that dream into a reality. How do you take an idea out of your head and actually bring it into the world? And so I didn't know how to do that. So what I did was try and use what I access to and the resources that I had, which was really leaning into me as an actor. And so I was just trying to ask everybody, one of the things I had learned before I became an actor when I left college was ask people questions, say thank you, write a thank you, not stay in contact with them and then learn from that and get the new relationships. So I just started asking questions and I got a lot of nos. And the main thing that I was hearing, the main three things I was hearing was why you, you're an actor, what do you know about hair? You should partner with a professional. And the third was why do we need more products on the shelf? And I had all those answers to those questions, but I didn't know how to articulate those answers in a way that people could understand it. So it was why me because like so many others, I had become my own best expert because I was um uh a shopper and a beauty person in an industry that was not catering to the curly and type textured community. Um I didn't want to partner with an expert or a professional because I felt so many, I had become my own best expert in my bathroom because it was an industry that didn't, the beauty industry was not catering to us. And I um and why these products, why did we need more products on the shelf because there weren't products that were actually matching and suiting my hair texture. Um And so the journey began with a lot of, I'll just tell you, I won't tell you all the nos but some of the fun ones, one woman read the hair care brand pitch, who was my manager at the time, obviously, an acting manager doesn't know the beauty industry and she was like, I read it. It's amazing. We should do a line of wigs and I was like, I think you missed the point. Another person was like, I read it. It's amazing. We should do a hair TV show. And I was like, I am asking the wrong people. These people do not know what they're talking about. Um Ended up going through many other journeys um Before I found my operational partners and I call them my operational partners, my business partners. But I say that because I am the majority owner of the company, I have full creative control and the vision is mine. Um But I do not know how to run a beauty business. So I have a lot of business acumen but don't know how to do that. So I found partners before I found my partners, I actually decided that what I needed to do was find a chemist on my own that I had the brand pitch and everything that was in my pitch is actually what was in our launch. Um The skews that we had there were in our launch, which was four conditioners, a hydrating shampoo that was not going to strip your hair. I'm not going to go into detail. We only have a little bit of time. Um But um so I found, I wanted to find a chemist that I could speak to directly, that I really could start to explain because part of what I was finding in the industry was that I could either use formulas that existed or I could sort of give that part over. And the whole point was that the formulas don't exist. And so I needed to actually build the goop from scratch. So I found um a chemist that was in Los Angeles that I could speak to face to face and then um ended up meeting with retail partners with a little bit of group that I had and my brand pitch and ended up with retail partners before I found my business partners. And so 11 years, 75 samples patterns on shows 2019 I, that was a really speedy version. No, we love it. Um You talked about kind of figuring out the best way to articulate the opportunities you saw here we have a lot of founders in the room doing that for their own businesses all the time, figuring out how to pitch to investors. Yes. How did you do that? How did you figure out how to communicate the ideas you had? Um a lot of it came from the nos that I received. So when I would receive a no, I would usually take the hit, I would get very disappointed. Um And I would take the hit and then when I was ready, I would ask myself the question of, did I agree with the no? And what was in the know? So was the no something I agreed with that? Yes, there was no reason for me to create products on the shelves or why you or any of those things or was it that I hadn't articulated what I was? The effectiveness? Was I not effective in articulating what I meant? What that led me to by the time I went to my, the retail partner meetings is I had a hair Bible that really ended up being the road map for what has become pattern. And my vision, I can now articulate that for you guys. And what I would say to other founders and entrepreneurs as they're starting a business is the brand DNA for pattern is based on four things. It's based on number one, not sales, but the love of humanity. And our mission was born out of that. So it's meeting actual, an actual need. It's to exceed the needs of the curly cole texture community. And our content is focused around and centered around the celebration of black beauty. So our mission combined with our promise, the visual language of the brand, which is incredibly important because that's how I think you give evidence to your customer that you love them, believe in them and know who they are. And then the purpose of the brand, which is tied into our mission. And those four things are what to me makes that pattern. And I mean, I can go into detail on all those things. I wouldn't, but I think as a, as a founder, it's incredibly important to name what your promise is. What are you promising your customers and the mission of what exactly you are wanting to give them and what that is and why and then have purpose and combine it to that and then see if you can articulate in language, what you want your brand narrative to look like visually because I think those are the things that are markers and create a continuity of language with your customer. Yeah, thank you. Um I'll come to everyone for questions in a moment. So if you have any, I know I'm so, so it's great. Um You know, celebrity beauty is a crowded space. And even just yesterday, Beyonce hinted that she might be entering in hair category as well. We don't know for sure we don't. But, you know, she might be making salons. Anything is possible. Yeah, it's Beyonce. But how do you stand out and achieve longevity as a brand that's tied to a celebrity? Well, I think the key is that we're not a celebrity brand. Um, I am a CEO and founder and so I can tell you what I think the keys are for a successful brand, which I think is a lot of what I just stated, it's really knowing your customer. I think it's being hands on really being deliberate, specific and intentional about your language and what you're stating. You know, one of the things that is really important to me at pattern is that we name what we want, not what isn't. So we're always leaning towards that and that gives us a road map to where we want to go. I think that knowing the industry is incredibly important in doing your work, I think, you know, the difference to me and a lot of celebrity brands. And I think where that term comes from is yes, there's a celebrity, but often they are not. I'm a majority owner of my company. Um They aren't the founders of the company. Often they join a company that exists. The mission is born out of my experience. It's born out of my own experiential knowledge and like any other founder, it's um I, I am a celebrity but that's not the way I am at pattern, but I will say that I do use the um my notoriety in the industry to continue to open doors. Um And because I know that that gives me a particular kind of seat or access. And so I make sure that the access that I have is used not just for me and opening up the space for others, like maybe even Beyonce, she's like, oh patterns doing well, maybe I should get in that business. Is there an example of the time you've done that successfully that you think that who you are helped pattern grow? I think it's how I helped pattern grow. Yes, but I think it's less about that. It's more that in particular, for example, with my retail partners, there have been moments when I know that I have access to sit at a table with a CEO in a way that perhaps another founder doesn't. And when I do that, I make sure that those conversations are not only centered around pattern, they're centered around creating and expanding the access for all of us and making sure that shelf space is whether it's the pipeline or shelf space or the diversity and equity within the company is, is looked at in a particular way and that I'm willing to have those conversations even if they're uncomfortable and I have quite a few of them. Have you seen change over the past four years? I have, I think the biggest thing that I've seen is a willingness. I think a lot of people don't know what they want to do. But, you know, I have to give a shout out to Mary Dylan, who was the former CEO of, um Ulta and is now at Foot Locker. She was somebody who from the beginning before Pattern launched, I had a very close relationship with her because of all the things that were happening and I picked up the phone and called her with some difficulties that were occurring in terms of the relationship or what whatever was happening. And as a result, she got to have a first, a front seat to me as a founder and a CEO. And she saw in me something that I didn't know existed in terms of being a business person. And she was the one that appointed me as the diversity equity inclusion advisor for ALTA. And because of her, I have had a seat at many tables. I have had access to speaking with other ceos of large companies and really talking about what my personal experience with Pattern has been, but also how the industry has a blind spot and a gap in certain areas and what those gaps are. And sometimes they're as simple as the wash cycle for a black customer is different than another. And so the re upping on supply and how you purchase for regularity is different, many of those different kinds of things and knowing the customers. So those are some of the conversations that have happened around that I had access to because of pattern but have become a larger conversation because it is one of my missions to really change the myth that black hair care is a niche market. I completely disagree. And there's data to support that the black consumer has a spending power of 1.2 trillion at the moment by 2024 it's supposed to be 1.8 trillion and hair products alone is 2.22 point 29 billion. So this is this is a demographic, a vast demographic of people that is underserved and not understood in the right way. And that is my personal experience for pattern. But for any founders that are out there, it's incredibly important for you to really understand the data and merge that with your own experience, merge that with your promise and make sure that you understand the landscape that you're trying to enter so that you can really be informed and effective in getting where you want to go. How much of that market do you think pattern can capture? I hope it captures all of it every single 2.29 billion. And that is with A B. Um Did we have any questions for Tracy? I think one in the back right there. Hi. Hi, my name is Keisha. I'm from Atlanta was gonna say this last night and I'm gonna say it. So I have naturally gray hair. I use your products and if you are interested in a gray haired ambassador for the brand, I'm your girl. I love it just so you know, I also have gray hair. I just color it the curl gel. Oh, really? Your hair looks beautiful. Thank you very much. That was your question. My God. I thought there was going to be an entrepreneurial question. Yeah. One right there, Shay fellow, curly haired girl. Hello, curly. Um I'm curious what's next for pattern? And you know, I think Emma either you or Tracy mentioned salons. Uh I live in New York and you might know that the salon shut down. I didn't know that. And so there's actually very few places in New York that you can go to get your hair cut. Oh, really? I think that's not just New York. Yeah. Yeah. Like even in a city as large and diverse that that market is that under served? So curious if you know, as you think about all the different ways that you could solve our problems, uh meet your needs. I don't think you have problems. We are here to meet your needs and exceed them. You have your problems. Your hair is beautiful. Thank you. Uh Yeah. So just curious to what's next? If that's additional product lines, tools, salons, like where do you see pattern going? Well, I think this is a vast community and there are many, many needs like the one that you mentioned. So I think the sky is the limit in terms of what pattern will continue to offer. There are many things in the pipeline but I will not speak on those. Maybe I should just do a nefarious Instagram post. But, but I do love this idea and I agree with you. It's incredibly difficult. The the hair cut for a curly and my favorite thing is people showing these haircuts online where they got their hair curly. I'm like, oh my God, when you wash your hair, it's gonna be a nightmare. I'm like so frightened for you. It looks good right now and wait till you're in different level of humidity. Oh my God. Um So I agree. There's a lot of needs. There's a lot of spaces. We just launched the blow dryer, which has been extremely successful and was incredibly exciting for me because that was part of my original dream for the brand to create a blow dryer and to reintroduce heat into this community in a way that it's not going to be damaging for the hair. And we created a for the curly coy tight texture community blow dryer. That's not only beautiful but also selling out. Um And I think there's a lot more to explore in all of those areas. Do we have one more back there? I don't think so. Oh, well, maybe. No, no more questions. I see. There's one up front if we can get up here. Um, we might be able to hear you and give you just the, yeah, we have the live stream as well. I'll write that. Hi, Tiana. Curly girl. I see you. Would you mind standing up? You wanna stand up? Oh, sure. So, my, um, my battle is humidity, obviously, but it's also retention. Are you curl, retention, hydration, retention. Yes. Ok. All of the above. Exactly. Um, and sometimes certain um so I'm from Florida. Certain products work for the first day and then they say they don't work. Yeah. Later on one of the things is making sure you're looking for alcohol. You don't, you don't want alcohol in the product. Um because that will happen. One of the things that is at the core of patterns, um philosophy and effectiveness is hydration, hydration, hydration, hydration and, and you want lasting hydration and depending on the porosity of your hair, there will be a difference in how long you maintain that um moisture and hydration in your hair. So um number one, I would say try our product. Number two, you have them. OK, I have them. Yeah. And I would also say don't be afraid of humidity for me, that's how you create volume. And I also think that Frizz is really sexy. I think there's a big myth around Frizz. I have a lot of frizz going on right now. I think it's very sexy. So, um so I think embrace that. But um there is a product that we have that's down the line in the pipeline that will help you um maintain that moisture for more days. Thank you. And thank you. What about growth? Growth? Well, we have in our treatment collection, first of all, oiling your scalp and making sure that your scalp is clean is incredibly important. So you wanna make sure that the, the root of your hair stays clean. So that, that cuticle, the the the hair can follicle, that's what I'm looking for can come out. Um But we have the treatment collection. So there's the transition mask, but also the treatment mask, which it sounds like it looks like you don't do a lot of heat on your hair. So I would say the treatment mask is probably for you and use that for a good 20 minutes before you shampoo, use the hydration shampoo and then maybe the intensive conditioner just saying these are great tips. Thank you. Um We've heard about a couple of people's relationship with their hair. We can end. I'd love to hear about your relationship with your hair, maybe growing up in your career and how a launching pattern has changed it. If at all, I think it's actually deepened my relationship with my hair. I think you could chronicle my journey of self acceptance through my journey with my hair. I had to come to know my hair, um meet my hair where it was and then learn to love it and then how to be with it. And then I realized my hair could honestly do anything. If it was in good condition, I can put heat on it. I can wear it straight. I can wear it slicked back, I can wear it curly. I can do all the different things with my hair. I think what's happened now is there's no such thing as a bad hair day because I have the products that actually work and support my hair. Um I actually have products that can meet me in any bad situation. Like when there's been someone does my hair and there's too much heat on it or whatever that might be. But mostly I think it's that I now have a genuine um loving relationship with my hair that it just, you know, there's never a bad hair day. It just kind of is what it is. That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you.

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