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Founded in the 1800s, First Citizens BancShares is one of the largest commercial banks in the United States. First Citizens BancShares is the holding company for First-Citizens Bank &amp; Trust Company, which offers retail and commercial banking services to individuals, small businesses, and larger companies in the United States and internationally. Since purchasing Silicon Valley Bank in 2023, First Citizens has offered financial services to startups and technology firms through a division called Silicon Valley Commercial.

Q2 2025

Q1 2025

Q4 2024

First Citizens BancShares (FCNC.A): Company Profile, Stock Price, News, Rankings

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First Citizens BancShares

first citizens bancshares

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the First Citizens Bank Shares First Quarter twenty twenty five Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to introduce the host of this conference call, Ms. Deanna Hart, Head of Investor Relations. You may begin.

Good morning, and welcome to First Citizen's first quarter earnings call. Joining me on the call today are our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Frank Holding and Chief Financial Officer, Craig Nix. They will provide first quarter business and financial updates referencing our earnings call presentation, which you can find on our website. Our comments will include forward looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from expectations. We assume no obligation to update such statements.

These risks are outlined on page three of the presentation. We will also reference non GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these measures against the most directly comparable GAAP measures can be found in section five of the presentation. Finally, First Citizens is not responsible for and does not edit nor guarantee the accuracy of earnings transcripts provided by third parties. I will now turn it over to Frank.

Thank you, Deanna. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our earnings call, and thank you for joining us today. I'll start with by providing brief comments on our first quarter results before turning it over to Craig to review our performance in more detail. Starting on Page five, today we reported solid financial results aligned with our guidance with adjusted earnings per share of $37.79 We remain encouraged by the performance of our operating segments and achieved loan growth in our commercial bank and SVB commercial segments. Deposit growth was strong concentrated in our direct bank and throughout our branch network.

Credit performance remained stable with net charge offs declining from the fourth quarter and at a 41 basis points coming in at the low end of our guidance range. We maintained strong capital and liquidity positions which allowed us to return an additional $613,000,000 of capital to our shareholders through share repurchases. This quarter's repurchases brought total repurchases since inception of the plan to $2,300,000,000 or 8.26% of the total Class A shares. In early March, we successfully reentered the debt markets issuing $500,000,000 of senior unsecured borrowings and $750,000,000 of subordinated debt providing us with additional funding and capital at attractive terms. We believe this was a proactive step that positions us to effectively manage our debt and capital structures to support future growth.

On April 7, we terminated our loss share agreement with the FDIC, which we entered into as a part of the SCB acquisition. The agreement was put in place to protect the bank from material downside risk on the acquired commercial loan portfolios despite SVB's long history of strong credit performance. After two years together, given the low likelihood of reaching the $5,000,000,000 loss threshold during the five year period covered by the agreement, the adequacy of our reserves and the purchase discount on the covered portfolio and the operational complexity and cost of maintaining the agreement, we determined that the shared loss agreement was no longer warranted. The decision to terminate reflects our confidence in the quality of the SPV portfolio. We continue to make progress on our strategic priorities as outlined on Slide six and remain focused on our commitments to our customers and clients, innovation and operational efficiency.

Before I hand it over to Craig, I want to take a second to acknowledge the level of uncertainty in the macro environment and the macroeconomic environment. While tariff announcements and market volatility have been disruptive, the ultimate impact on the broader economy is unknown at this point and as such quantifying potential impacts on our future results is difficult. Despite the level of uncertainty, we continue to operate from a position of strength supported by our strong capital and liquidity levels, which we believe will allow us to continue to support our customers and clients in a variety of economic scenarios. We will continue to monitor and respond to both known and anticipated policy changes and their potential effects on our operating environment. No matter what outcomes eventually materialize, we're committed to staying disciplined in our long term strategic approach, which will enable us to remain resilient through short term volatility while continuing to support our customers and clients with confidence.

I'll now turn it over to Craig to review our financial results in more detail. Craig?

Thank you, Frank. Appreciate everyone joining us today. I will anchor my comments to the first quarter key takeaways outlined on page eight. Pages nine through 26 provide more details underlying our results and are for your reference. As Frank noted to start the call, first quarter financial metrics were aligned with our guidance.

We reported adjusted net income of $528,000,000 and EPS of $37.79. This translated into adjusted ROE and ROA of 9.640.95%, respectively. Our adjusted efficiency ratio came in at 59.6%. Headline NIM was 3.26%, and NIM ex accretion was 3.12%. As anticipated, headline net interest income was down from the linked quarter as the impact of lower loan and Fed funds yields coupled with lower accretion income and two fewer days in the quarter more than offset lower deposit costs and higher investment securities income.

Headline NIM contracted modestly from the linked quarter by six basis points and excluding accretion by four basis points. The four basis points decline was driven primarily by the negative impact of fed fund rate cuts late in the fourth quarter of twenty twenty four, which continued to pull through into the first quarter, lowering the earning asset yield, which was only partially offset by lower funding costs. However, the pace of the decline moderated from the prior quarter as we continued to execute on our down beta action strategy, including lowering deposit rates. Also as anticipated, adjusted noninterest income decreased sequentially but was aligned with our guidance range. The primary driver of the decline was the negative impact from fair value changes in customer derivative positions driven by changes in the rate environment and the write down of a held for sale asset.

We also saw a $6,000,000 decline in adjusted rental income as lower rental income and higher maintenance costs more than offset continued strong repricing trends. As as we have called out previously, maintenance expense in this business can be lumpy quarter to quarter. While down on the quarter, the overall fundamentals in the rail business remained solid, and we believe it continues to conduct itself well, limiting the impact of possible recessionary effects through proactive sales practices. Only 16% of rail leases expire in 2025, while more than 45 expire after 2027. Additionally, repricing continued to be strong in the first quarter.

These declines were partially offset by a $2,000,000 increase in wealth management income as this business continues to see solid momentum, demonstrating the strength of our brand and the trust clients place in our advisers. Adjusted noninterest expense came in at the lower end of our guidance, increasing sequentially by less than 1%. The increase over the sequential quarter was driven primarily by higher personnel and marketing expenses. Increased personnel costs were due mostly to two factors. One, net staff additions in technology and risk management as we continue to scale for future growth, and two, seasonally higher benefit expenses.

Marketing expense increased due to efforts in the direct bank to maintain and attract new deposit balances to help offset the strategic decision to shift approximately $2,400,000,000 in higher yielding SVB commercial deposits off balance sheet and continue rightsizing our loan to deposit ratio. Despite the growth in balances, we were successful in bringing down rates in the direct bank during the quarter. These increases were partially offset by a decline in other noninterest expense driven by several miscellaneous items with the most significant including lower state related nonincome taxes, lower donations, and other general and administrative expenses. Moving to the balance sheet. Loans grew $1,100,000,000 or by point 8% sequentially, with growth concentrated in the commercial bank and SVB commercial segments.

Commercial bank loans grew by $733,000,000 primarily driven by continued strong performance in our tech, media, and telecom, and health care industry verticals as well as higher balances in our factoring business. Our industry verticals continue to bring unique capabilities to our clients, and our factoring businesses business benefited from new client acquisition and higher facility usage from existing clients. SVB commercial loans grew by $440,000,000 driven by global fund banking as new loan originations and draws outpaced pay downs and payoffs. Our pipelines remain robust, and we remain encouraged by our team's success even in this down market. Tech and health care business loans declined from the sequential quarter in line with our expectations given that macro environment challenges continue to be a drag on originations.

General bank loans decreased modestly by $40,000,000 attributable to net declines in the business and commercial loan portfolio driven primarily by elevated prepayments and seasonal lines paying down in the first quarter. We also saw declines in our consumer and mortgage books as we shifted to move pockets of our retail production off balance sheet to create additional liquidity while generating supplemental noninterest income. Turning to the right hand side of the balance sheet, deposits were up $4,100,000,000 or about 2.6% sequentially and exceeded our guidance as we experienced strong growth in the direct bank and general bank. The direct bank was the largest contributor to the increase, growing by $3,100,000,000 As noted last quarter, we leveraged this channel to help retain and attract new clients given a shift in strategy for one of our SVB commercial deposit products. This high yielding deposit product was moved off balance sheet in the first quarter, lowering total deposits in SVB commercial by $2,400,000,000 We continue to see solid elasticity in direct bank deposits despite lowering rates and achieved strong growth in the first quarter, which resulted in us exceeding our guidance.

In the general bank, we experienced growth of $1,400,000,000 as we continued to maintain strong client relationships and grow deposits organically within the branch network while also capitalizing on our national market share position in community association banking, which typically has the most seasonal growth in the first quarter of each year. Despite the expected off balance sheet movement, SVB Commercial achieved spot deposit growth of $496,000,000 Importantly, tech and health care balances were up when adjusted for the impact of the off balance sheet migration, demonstrating the competitive advantage we maintain in this business despite continued macroeconomic headwinds impacting inflows from both existing and new clients. While average deposits were down from the sequential quarter, average total client funds increased as expected, and the strategic action helped to optimize our balance sheet and reduce deposit costs in SVB commercial. These increases were partially offset by a $500,000,000 $5.00 $8,000,000 decline in the commercial bank. Moving to credit.

Net charge offs declined by five basis points sequentially and were on the lower end of our guidance range. Consistent with prior quarters, net charge offs were mostly concentrated in the general office, investor dependent, and equipment finance portfolios. We did experience a couple of larger losses in the broader SVB innovation portfolio and in our commercial finance business. As noted previously, the large hold sizes within some of our portfolios can cause net charge offs to be lumpy between quarters. The losses in these two portfolios were idiosyncratic in nature and were reserved for previously.

At this time, we are not seeing any further trends that would signal wider credit quality concerns within these portfolios and believed we are well reserved. The allowance ratio decreased by one basis point to 1.19. We feel good about our overall reserve coverage as well as the coverage on portfolios experiencing stress. Ultimately, our strong risk management framework, rigorous underwriting standards, and diversified portfolio help us maintain a resilient balance sheet, safeguarding us against losses. Moving to capital.

Frank mentioned that we continue to make progress on our share repurchase plan. As the close of business on 04/22/2025, we had repurchased 8.91% of Class A common shares or 8.29% of total common shares outstanding for a total price of $2,400,000,000. This represents approximately 69% of our board approved $3,500,000,000 repurchase plan. Given the termination of the FDIC shared loss agreement or SLA, I will focus my commentary on our adjusted CET1 capital ratio. Recall that while the SLA benefited our capital ratios, we have always managed capital without the benefit of the SLA knowing that it only provided a temporary lift.

As a result, the termination does not impact our approach to capital management or related actions. The CET one ratio, excluding the benefits of the LSA, was twelve point one nine twelve point one nine percent, a decrease of 14 basis points sequentially as risk weighted asset growth and the impact from share repurchases outpaced earnings growth. We intend to manage CET1 towards the 10.5% to 11% range by the end of the first quarter of twenty six, which is the level it was following the SVB acquisition. We intend to accomplish this through regular share repurchases in 2025 as we continue to assess capital needs considering loan growth, earnings trajectories, and the economic and regulatory environments. This contemplates an additional share repurchase plan in the second half of twenty twenty five, which we will discuss further during our second quarter earnings call.

I will close on page 28 with our second quarter and full year 2025 outlook. As Frank mentioned earlier, there's been an increased level of market volatility due to uncertainty regarding tariffs and its impact on the overall macroeconomic outlook. We continue to monitor the situation, but it is early and the fluidity of the changes makes it difficult at this time to narrow the range of potential impacts on the broader economy and our on our business lines and clients. Accordingly, we have not made significant changes to our guidance this quarter. However, we will be diligently monitoring developments and economic indicators and how they may impact our performance moving forward.

And if we find that the impacts are likely to have a significant adverse effect on our earnings or growth prospects, we will reflect that in updated guidance. Starting with the balance sheet, we anticipate loans in the $142,000,000,000 to $144,000,000,000 range in the second quarter driven by growth in the commercial bank and SVB commercial segments. Commercial bank growth will continue to come from our industry verticals. We expect SVB commercial will benefit from the growth in the global fund banking business, thanks to the strong pipeline it maintains, but we do remain cautious on the absolute level of growth given recent macroeconomic uncertainty. For the full year, we reiterate our previous guidance for loans in the 144,000,000,000

range and anticipate growth will be driven by SVB commercial and the commercial bank industry verticals. We expect that SVB commercial growth will be more concentrated in the back half of the year as the Fed's monetary easing cycle begins to take effect, and we expect the benefit of higher VC investment and capital markets activity. However, the overall level of growth will be dependent upon the final tariff policies implemented and the macroeconomic environment. We expect deposits to be in the 158,000,000,000 to $161,000,000,000 range in the second quarter driven by growth in the general and direct banks. In the general bank, we expect to continue to benefit from our branch network leveraging new products and initiatives to deepen client relationships.

We will also continue to focus on increasing our customer base by building the prop building deposits through proactive sales associate outreach, centralized marketing campaigns, and increased community connectivity. We will continue to leverage the direct bank to drive growth in insured core deposits. While it is a higher cost channel, we anticipate benefiting from falling interest rates and believe it will provide us with the strategic agility to pursue our balance sheet optimization efforts. We also continue to benefit from a shift in consumer behavior to a digitally centric delivery platform, which is supporting client acquisition. We expect that this growth will be partially offset by a decline in SVB commercial as continued client cash burn in muted public and private investment activity pressures growth.

For the full year, we are raising our deposits guide slightly to the $163,000,000,000 to $168,000,000,000 range given strong first quarter results. Our interest rate forecast covers a range of zero to four twenty five basis points rate cuts, which is aligned with our prior guidance with the effective funds rate range declining from 4.25% to four fifty currently to as low as 3.25% to 3.5% by the end of the year. While our baseline forecast includes three rate cuts, we believe there is possibility that a broader economic slowdown could lead to additional cuts. However, given stubborn inflationary metrics and possible impacts of the macro impacts of the macroeconomic policy, we recognize these cuts may not occur. Therefore, we believe it's prudent to provide to provide a range of expectations for the year.

We expect second quarter headline net interest income to be relatively stable compared to the first quarter as lower deposit costs are offset by lower accretion and interest income on earning assets. Our guidance does does include the planned impact of share repurchase activity for 2025 under our current share repurchase plan. For the full year, we are modestly lowering our headline net interest income guidance to be in the range of 6.55 to $6,950,000,000 from 6.6 to $7,000,000,000. The revision reflects the new interest rate curves as well as the jumping off point from the first quarter. In either case, as expected, we project that loan accretion will be down by over 200,000,000 for the year compared to 2024.

On credit losses, we anticipate second quarter net charge offs in the range of 40 to 50 basis points aligned with the first quarter range. In commercial real estate, while rate cuts could ease some of the pressure on borrowers in the general office sector, we do believe losses will remain elevated in 2025 even as market disruption may lessen as more companies begin to reinstate office attendance requirements. We also anticipate continued stress in the investor dependent portfolio throughout 2025. While the Fed cycle is a welcome change, the catalyst for buyers to become more acquisitive and for public investors to have an improved appetite for IPOs remain elusive, especially given the market dislocation resulting from the tariff announcement. We did see a $14,000,000,000 uptick in VC investment sequentially.

We remain guarded on the overall outlook as there were a few outsized deal deals in these totals which are not part of our service addressable market. These large deals accounted for approximately 60% of investment in the quarter. And when large deals are removed, the first quarter total is aligned with the first quarter. We expect the continued improvement here will be facilitated by a higher fundraising environment driven by both M and A and IPOs. With respect to the full year range, we are maintaining our guide of 35 to 45 basis points despite the lower jump off point.

This is because we continue to see some lumpiness in losses in the portfolio. And as we mentioned earlier, we have a portfolio where a handful of large deals can swing the ratio, and timing wise, they can easily fall into one quarter or another. It is important to note that our net charge off guidance does include an estimate for the it's important to note that our net charge off guidance does not include an estimate for the impact of tariffs, inflation, or interest rates cuts as it is too early to determine the full impact on our asset quality. While higher tariffs could drive economic stress in the form of inflation and or lower growth, we believe the credit risk is manageable. We will continually assess the potential impact to our portfolio, but we do believe the diversity in our loan portfolio is a strength heading into this environment.

Moving to adjusted noninterest income, we expect to be in the $4.80 to $510,000,000 range in the second quarter, which is aligned with a typical quarter for us. Overall, we continue to see potential strength in many of our core lines of business such as rail, merchant, international, and wealth. We have not changed our full year adjusted noninterest income ranges and expect this to be in the 1.95 to $2,050,000,000 range. This growth continues to be driven by our rail outlook, which includes a balanced railcar portfolio and a strategic exploration ladder. We are beginning to see some competitive pricing pressure because of economic uncertainty, and our outlook will ultimately be dependent on the tariff regime going forward as well as its impact on overall economic activity.

At this point, the potential impacts are unclear, but we do believe this business is well positioned to handle possible changes throughout 2025. We also expect continued momentum in our wealth business as we continue to organically add new clients as well as higher international and lending related fees given the healthy fundamentals supporting these businesses. I do want to caution that given the changing rate environment, our client derivative positions can fluctuate between quarters causing some lumpiness in our noninterest income results. Moving to adjusted noninterest expense. We expect the second quarter to be flat to modestly up compared to the first as personnel expenses level out following seasonal increases but are offset by investments in risk and technology to build towards category three expectations and to simplify and optimize our platforms.

Looking at the full year, we continue to see adjusted noninterest expense in the 5.05 to $5,200,000,000 range. Exercising the disciplined expense management while making opportunity opportunistic investments is a top priority for us giving headwind given headwinds to net interest income. Our adjusted efficiency ratio is expected to remain in the upper 50% range in 2025 as the impact of the Fed rates cut cycle puts downward pressure on net interest margin, and we continue to make investments into areas that will help us scale to category three status when we cross that threshold. Longer term, our goal is to operate in the mid fifties. Finally, for both the second quarter and full year 2025, we expect our tax rate to be in the range of 25% to 26, which is exclusive of any discrete tax items.

To conclude, we are pleased with another quarter of solid financial performance while maintaining strong capital and liquidity positions. Our focus now turns to the future, which currently includes an increased level of uncertainty. What we do know is that we will be here to support our customers and clients through it all. We have consistently demonstrated solid performance in periods of uncertainty given the strength of our capital and liquidity positions, risk management, client selection, and our diversified business mix. All these attributes serve as sources of strength in periods of stress and gives us confidence in our prospects moving forward and supporting our customers and clients.

I will now turn it over to the operator for instructions for this question and answer portion of the call.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question or comment at this time, please press star and then the one key and your touch tone telephone. As a courtesy to others on the call, we ask that you limit yourself to one question and one follow-up each and then return to the call queue if you have additional questions. Our first question today comes from Chris McGratty from KBW. Chris, please go ahead.

the buyback. The 10.5% to 11% by the first quarter basically would imply a pretty meaningful step up in either growth or the pace of buybacks. Could you just help me reconcile how you get there over the next, call it, nine months?

You're you're specifically referring how do we get to the 10 and a half to 11% range over the next nine months?

Exactly. From the, from the from the twelfth to today. Exactly. How do you how do you pull a hundred and

Yeah. It assumes that you obviously complete, the repurchase that's ongoing, and that we implement another repurchase plan in the back half of twenty twenty five.

And then given, I guess, market volatilities and and the stocks valuation, I see what you've done quarter to date. Is there is there an opportunity just to step it up near term? Obviously, there's liquidity, restrictions on a daily basis, but, how do we think about near term where the stock is? Thanks.

Obviously, where the stock is is making our repurchases more factual. And we're we're we're able to repurchase more shares than otherwise. The pace of our share repurchases are really dictated by our capital plan, which we are very hesitant to deviate from. Tom, I'll let you, add to that if you have any other comments.

Oh, yeah. And, you know, as a large financial institution, we just wrapped up sort of our first quarter, submitted it to regulators and sort of going through that review process. And as Craig mentioned, provide some more context on the next earnings call and sort of where we sit there. But I think overall, repurchases is sort of part of our capital strategy. And as we communicated when we kicked it off, we'll continue to be methodical and something we want to continue to do over time.

The next question comes from Christopher Marinac from Janney Montgomery Scott. Christopher, your line is open.

Yes. Thanks. Good morning. I wanted to ask about the FDIC receivable and what impact that's gonna have on balance sheet and buybacks and even earnings beyond the next quarter.

So you're talking about the are you talking about the purchase money note?

Okay. And and could you repeat the last part of that question?

Just in terms of how it's gonna impact the balance sheet, you know, when you pay that off. I last quarter, Craig, you mentioned that it was gonna get paid off by the end of this year.

No. We I don't think we indicated it would be paid off at the end of the year. What what we do say is that if the arbitrage goes out of the note, then we would we would pay it down. Right now, we don't anticipate the rates are forecasted to be, pay downs in 2025. Although as we move into 2026, we would anticipate, if the forward curve is correct, paying down a portion of that note.

Great. Thank you for that clarification. I appreciate it. And from a general margin standpoint, do you still see yourself as somewhat asset sensitive, or is that changing as time passes?

We are asset sensitive and would anticipate staying that way.

Great. Thanks very much for taking our questions this morning.

The next question comes from Anthony Elion from JPMorgan. Anthony, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, everyone. I'd like to get more color on the total client fund growth you saw in SVB in the first quarter. I mean, average balances were up $2,000,000,000 in 1Q. They're up $4,000,000,000

4Q. I'm just curious and maybe if Mark's on the line, you can dive a bit deeper into the growth you saw and if you think growth overall in total client funds can persist given the market volatility.

Hi, it's Mark. I'll start and leave it open for Craig or others if they wish to add. Starting with the first quarter, it is the way I think of it is the TCF, the total client funds growth that we saw and recognizing that there is a shift between deposits and off balance sheet in the quarter, as Craig mentioned, I think is reflective of SVB's continued ability to execute, win business, drive balances despite the ongoing innovation economy headwinds that we continue to experience. Going to your question about the outlook for the rest of the year, I think all of that is reflected in our guidance, as Craig mentioned. And at the same time, there's an awful lot of uncertainty, as Craig also mentioned, hanging over all of this.

And so will some kind of pause related to the uncertainty turn out to be a headwind? We'll all get to find out. But so far through the first quarter, very encouraged by our ability to execute.

Thank you. And then my follow-up on credit quality, I think you mentioned this in the prepared remarks, but I was hoping you could dive a bit deeper into potentially any loan portfolio specific borrowers you may be paying a closer attention to now that have outsized exposure to supply chain or tariffs? And maybe if you can size them up for us, that'd be great. Thank you.

Andy, you wanna you answer that one, please?

So we have done a review of the portfolios and asset class exposure that we think is at risk to certainly the tariffs and all that go with that. We looked at the level of tariffs by country and how that impacts any particular portfolio, the origin of the supply chain, any potential impacts on margins, volumes, collateral values, etcetera. Obviously, it's very difficult at this point to assess the full impact. But some of the portfolios that certainly that we're focused on is textile, footwear, retail, right, given that most of that comes from Asia with the largest impacts from tariffs there. Certainly, auto exposure, equipment finance and innovation would be some of the larger portfolios that we're watching.

The good thing is we haven't seen any change in customer behavior regarding draws. I think everyone's being cautious as they try to get more clarity on the full impact. So it's still early days.

The next question comes from Brian Foran from Trevis. Brian, your line is open. Please go ahead.

Hi. I'm just thinking about the stock valuation. It's kind of hard to reconcile 1.1 times tangible book with the value you've created pretty consistently over time. The pushback I do hear a lot is, well, the current ROTC is only 9% or 10%. Even if you adjust for the excess capital, it's maybe 12%.

Can you just share your updated thoughts when you look out three, five years or maybe it's easier to speak to a normalized environment? You know, how do you think about the normalized return potential of the franchise and, you know, what are the big things to get there?

Brian, some of some of your question got muted out, but I I think I have the gist of it. In terms of of return, we've consistently produced peer leading total shareholder returns. I don't wanna speculate on the multiple. I think you were asking about the the price of tangible multiple. We do, though we are carrying a good bit of excess capital right now, so that that could be part of it.

But any any anything like that would be purely speculation on my part.

Sorry. And and I think the the important part of my question got cut off. Sorry about that. And, it's coming through now. Yeah.

You're getting it. Much better. ROTCE. Yeah. I I was really asking more about the ROTCE because, I think a lot of people justify the current valuation based on the current ROTC.

But is there any thoughts you can share on three to five years out, can you do a 15% ROTC? 13%, is there a range? Just your updated thoughts on what you think a normalized, return is for the business.

Well well, Brian, first of all, we're not big fans of ROTC because it allows, banks to take deals out of their or premiums they've paid or dilutive deals out of their denominator. So we're much more focused on ROE, and we also much more focused on tangible book value. We believe over time on that that we can return, you know, on average over 10% TBV growth over long periods of time, which would lead to double digit ROE. But ROTCE the difference between ROTCE for us and ROE is only about 30 basis points given that we don't have a high level of goodwill and intangibles on our balance sheet. So we're not really we're not really focused on ROTCE and and really don't think it's a fair comparison, between us and our competitors as they have a lot more goodwill on their balance sheet and a lot more AOCI as well.

Thank you. If I could sneak in one follow-up. The rate market's been all over the place, so I realize this can change tomorrow. But right now, it's kind of centered on the four cut scenario. Is there any help you can give us on the trajectory of NII and really kind of the exit run rate for the year, the jumping off point for next year?

If we get that four rate cut scenario, would quarterly NII by the end of the year still be kind of near that $6,500,000,000 bottom end of the range? Or could it actually dip a little bit below that? I know it's hard to ask for quarterly guidance, but just any big picture thoughts if we get at the four rate cut scenario.

Sure. Thank you. I I will, focus on comparing the first quarter twenty five actual to the fourth quarter twenty five exit. With three with three or four rate cuts, the the the fourth rate cut would be late in the year, so the impact on this year would be muted. So with three rate cuts, our headline net interest income, we expect it to be up low single digits percentage points and headline NIM to be in the low three tens.

And with three rate cuts, x accretion net interest income to be up low single digits percentage points and ex accretion NIM to be in the low threes. And in terms of troughs, we would have pretty much everything troughing and all those measures, NIM, ex accretion and headline, net interest income, ex accretion and headline to trough in the first quarter of twenty six. And that's subject to timing and, magnitude of rates, and we could have more, rate cuts in next year, which would just push the trough out, further.

The next question comes from Ben Gurlinger from Citi. Ben, please go ahead. Your line is open.

I was curious. It's pretty clear you guys want to return shareholder capital via a buyback. You teased another one in the second half of this year. And at these valuations, I totally understand that. But when you think about the economic outlook, you've cited some volatility.

I have no issue with your credit profile, but you guys have always been good acquirers. Does this mean you really have no appetite for a potential partnership or acquisition should economic volatility increase? Just kind of thinking about deployment outside of the buyback over the next twelve, eighteen, twenty four months with this volatility economically.

Yeah. I I would not say that our appetite for m and a has changed. We we're we're really dealing with what's in front of us right now, and that's the share repurchase plan. That's the most effectual way for us to return capital at this point in time. But m and a remains a important part of our growth strategy over the long term.

I gotcha. Do you need to repay the FDIC in its entirety at all or at all to do any meaningful deal?

The next question comes from Nick Holoca from UBS. Nick, your line is open. Please go ahead.

First Citizens BancShares Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript | Fortune

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Fortune Editors

Fortune 500 Power Moves: Which executives gained and lost power, Sept. 6–12, 2025

/2025/09/12/fortune-500-power-moves-sept-6-12/

John Kell

e.l.f. Beauty’s CDIO says she’s responsible for AI’s foundation, but that these tools aren’t an IT mandate

/2025/09/10/e-l-f-beautys-cdio-says-shes-responsible-for-ais-foundation-but-that-these-tools-arent-an-it-mandate/

Phil Wahba

Why Walmart’s U.S. CEO says staffing levels will remain steady even as A.I. becomes a bigger part of work

/2025/09/09/walmart-ai-jobs-brainstorm-tech/

Jessica Mathews

DoorDash CEO Tony Xu says path to autonomous deliveries filled with ‘lots of pain and suffering’ but company is nearing first inning of commercial progress

First Citizens BancShares (FCNC.A) Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript

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