DaVita

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Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway is DaVita's largest shareholder, with a 33% stake in the company according to a recent filing. Buffett's faith in the company, a long-term holding, has been rewarded, as the company has delivered a 13% annual return to shareholders over the past decade. Patients from around the world come to DaVita's 2,500 treatment centers for kidney dialysis.

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Based in Denver, Colo., the health provider delivers dialysis treatment and other medical services to patients globally. Through DaVita Kidney Care, the company treats patients with kidney disease.

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DaVita, incorporated in 1994 and based in Denver, was known as DaVita HealthCare Partners Inc. until changing its name to DaVita Inc. in 2016. It provides kidney dialysis services in the U.S., operating dialysis centers and providing related lab services. In addition the company offers integrated care and disease management services, clinical research programs, physician services, and comprehensive kidney care.&nbsp;

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DaVita (DVA): Company Profile, Stock Price, News, Rankings

legacy

davita

DaVita, incorporated in 1994 and based in Denver, was known as DaVita HealthCare Partners Inc. until changing its name to DaVita Inc. in 2016. It provides kidney dialysis services in the U.S., operating dialysis centers and providing related lab services. In addition the company offers integrated care and disease management services, clinical research programs, physician services, and comprehensive kidney care. 

DaVita (DVA): Company Profile, Stock Price, News, Rankings | Fortune

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CEOs share the career-defining moments that launched them to the corner office

/2024/11/25/ceo-career-defining-catalyst-corner-office-big-project/

At Fortune’s Brainstorm Health conference, Karen Lynch, CEO of CVS Health, and Javier Rodriguez, CEO of DaVita, discuss the looming demographic shift as more and more Americans over the age of 65 enter Medicare.

We are facing ‘a tsunami of people coming into Medicare.' Here’s what that means for America

Health

There's a looming demographic shift as more and more Americans over the age of 65 enter Medicare.

We are facing ‘a tsunami of people coming into Medicare'

We are facing ‘a tsunami of people coming into Medicare’: Here’s what that means for America

To step back and you look at what's going on in the market. There are more people between the ages of 50 64 than there are over 65. So, you know, you can imagine there's like this tsunami of people coming into Medicare. And really what you want to do is make sure you're engaging because that's going to put pressure on the entire health care system, right? So you want to make sure that you're in engaging with them using the technology and analytics. So we can kind of help with some of that preventative to keep sort of that, you know, keep them healthy and manage their chronic diseases more in real time that tsunami just to put a little finer point on it in 2000, we had 30 million Americans above 65 in, in the next 10 years. We'll have 65 million Americans. It'll be the first time that we will have more seniors than Children. And so that's got massive consequences of what we want to do right now. If you think about health care in the future, there's two things that really are going to change health care in the future value based care, which we have models together and tech. And those are the two things that if you think about what's going to make health care evolve and, and be more patient centered. It's those two things.

Karen Lynch, Chief Executive Officer, CVS Health
Javier J. Rodriguez, Chief Executive Officer, DaVita
Moderator: Clifton Leaf, Former Editor-in-Chief, FORTUNE, and Founder, Brainstorm Health 

Brainstorm Health 2023 - The Future Of Integrated Care 

Conferences

Karen Lynch, Chief Executive Officer, CVS Health
Javier J. Rodriguez, Chief Executive Officer, DaVita
Clifton Leaf, Founder, Brainstorm Health

Karen Lynch, Chief Executive Officer, CVS Health
Javier J. Rodriguez, Chief Executive Officer, DaVita
Moderator: Clifton Leaf, Former Editor-in-Chief, FORTUNE, and Founder, Brainstorm Health 


I don't often talk about silver linings from the pandemic, but there is little doubt that people are more focused on their health, more more now than they've ever been. We're more knowledgeable about it too. Um But with all this focus, we do want convenient, affordable, accessible care that is connected at all levels, integrated services, holistic approaches and a continuum of care are not new concepts, but they are being implemented more broadly across the health landscape to the benefit of patients and providers. So that's exactly what our next our next guests are here to talk about. Karen Lynch is the CEO of CV S health, one of the five largest companies in the United States and one of the 10 largest companies in the world. Uh I would also like to note that Karen has topped Fortune's most powerful women's list for two years running and CBS is the highest ranking Fortune 500 company ever led by a woman. We also have Javier J Rodriguez Ceo of devita, one of the largest providers of kidney care in the US with operations in 10 countries worldwide. They join, they join Fortune's former editor in chief Clifton leaf for this very timely conversation. Please join us in welcoming them to the stage. Well, it is great to have you both here and those are some accolades for both of you. Um I've gotten a chance to hear you present your company strategy for many years and you're a great, very clear and compelling communicator. Two action verbs have always stood out, one is extend and the other is engaged and the extent I think is clear from your strategy, you've got the minute clinics, you've got 9000 stores, you've got, you've just spent all of this money $20 billion almost to buy two big primary care providers going into the home care industry. What is the engage? How do you envision the engage in this? Well, first of all, hi, everyone. Thanks for having us here. We're really thrilled to be here to talk about integrated care. You know, I think the most important thing if you think about someone's health, right is it is all about engagement. And if you want to be healthier, what we saw with the pandemic, people are more concerned about their health and engagement is the power of being healthy or getting to health. And the way we've really thought about it. And you said, you know, we're kind of accumulating kind of extending our assets. The way we've really thought about it is how are we going to use technology in different ways so that people can engage in a simple and connected. One of the things that if you all kind of like think about your experiences in health care. What's the first thing that comes to your mind? Fragmentation? Not simple, hard to navigate? You think about every other experience that you have in your everyday life, you think about simplicity, you think about engagement, you think about easy access. So we're thinking about how do we engage people in their health, using technology in various ways so that people have a connected and seamless experience with the ultimate goal of making Americans healthy. That's really what we're trying to accomplish. And the rest of your life is simple, easy. What were the so Javier, I mean, engagement, this is, this is something where your relationship with your the patients you serve is very intense. I mean 100 and 44 times a year people come in for hemodialysis to your centers. That is more engagement with a health care provider than, than most of us who don't have end stage kidney disease can imagine, talk a little bit about how you are improving that relationship because you know, for many, it's sort of a very dire and, and, and, and and brutal experience. Uh First of all, good, good to see you and be on this steam panel with the most powerful woman. And I don't know how many uh spheres. I'm just another guy here. Uh from uh from our perspective, the most important thing that you have is when, when a patient is as sick as our patient population is, you want to comfort them and make them sure that they have that relationship. The first week when I was the CEO of DaVita, I went to a center in Iowa and I wanted to meet a patient. His name, his name is Jack and he has been on dialysis for 46 years, 46 the, the average person is on dialysis for five years. And I said, this guy has got to have something special. So I said, Jack, tell me what makes you special. He goes well, my name is Jack. So I have a shot of Jack Daniels every day. And I said, please tell me there's more. I came all the way to Iowa. Uh and then what came across was the relationship that they have with the caregivers. And so for me, one of the mandates that I want to do now for DeVita is create a culture where every one of our 40,000 caregivers has that relationship with the patient. And that is very, very hard to do in today's world. Uh with all the technology, all the things they have to do and all the fragmentation of care that you talked about. And we have important point though is that relationship, um you know, with providers and patients or providers because that makes a difference. We talk about technology very often and we need technology for us. But you know, we're, we're partners with um manages uh many of our patients as well and you can't replace that personal relationship in health care because health is one of the most valuable assets that you have. And I think that as, as um as technology and everything evolves, we can't forget that human engagement and that human connection that you do so well. Is CV S Caremark going to preapprove Jack Daniels? Now? Can we, can we get some news, man? I would love to see that. Um So Javier like like CV S uh uh your predecessor bought a primary care physician practice. You had it for about five years. Uh Your, your predecessor sold it. It, it didn't really integrate into your uh into your journey to create a uh to move dialysis from a dialysis company into a kidney care specialty company. But what did you learn from that experience? How did you learn about how to integrate? Well, a couple of things, uh what we want to do is revolutionize the way care is delivered. And we, we want to make sure like you that we take on a broader part of health care. So our patients come to us incredibly sick and, and people say put wrap around services on them and it's a little like building a house without a roof and then it rains and pours and whatever and someone says go fix it and you're like well, you know, you should have put a roof on the house, right. So from our perspective, what we wanted to do in that acquisition was move upstream and have broader access so that we can avoid the progression of kidney failure. What what we ended up doing is we started to get a lot of learnings. Of course, when you make an acquisition of that size, and we realized that uh that model wasn't scalable around the country. So that was our first finding. And then secondly, that there was a better owner of that asset. And so it wasn't that we didn't like the model. It's just that when you uh when you start to see that someone is willing to pay more for something uh than what we were willing to have, it was, it was good to divest it. You know, you both have invested a lot in analytics and data. And one of the challenges is to find people before they get into kidney failure before they need more serious help. Talk a little bit about how you're sort of moving into this preemption model with the data you have. Well, I think, you know, it first starts, you know, as, as you said earlier, one of the things that we've been extending our services into primary care. Well, you know, we have found uh you know, people are interacting with their primary care and if, if they do that gives them, you know, we've seen better health outcomes as a result, which is why we did the acquisition of Oak Street Health. And I think it's an important part because, you know, primary care wield significant influence over the entire health care ecosystem. And they've been using a lot of data and analysis to really understand, you know, kind of patients and how to interconnect with them. At the same time, you know, we, we have people in our home health asset through, you know, signify health where we're using data to really understand their needs. And then one of the things that's really powerful is that we'll be able to return those individuals to care, using technology, using those interactions, using our pharmacy information to do adherent. So you can see tech is gonna weave and and analytics will weave through that entire sort of continuum as we advance value based care, which is critical to, I just want to let people know that the Oak Oak Street and the sign both they have a lot of Medicare advantage, but a lot of Medicaid patients as well. And so there, there is a lot of people who are, who are often sick and uh have a lot of comorbidities that you're you're dealing with trying to implement a value based care approach to this, right. So the data would be help you to prevent some of these diseases or complications of the disease. Yeah, absolutely. And it's mostly Medicare. And if you think about just step back and you look at what's going on in the market. There are more people between the ages of 50 and 64 than there are over 65. So, you know, you can imagine there's like this tsunami of people coming in to Medicare. And really what you want to do is make sure you're engaging because that's going to put pressure on the entire health care system, right? So you want to make sure that you're engaging with them using the the technology and analytics. So we can kind of help with some of that preventative to keep sort of that, you know, keep them healthy and manage their chronic diseases more in real time. That's tsunami. Just to put a little finer point on it. Uh In 2000, we had 30 million Americans above 65. And in the next 10 years, we'll have 65 million Americans. It will be the first time that we will have more seniors than Children. And so that's got massive consequences of what we want to do right now. And the most powerful woman in end stage kidney disease, the only way out is a transplant, it's a kidney transplant. Uh Correct. And so there and so there aren't that many kidneys available for transplantation. So the only other option is to really try to prevent people from getting to that point. How are you using your data and some of your acquisitions to identify those patients. And what can you do to actually stop that progression? We're, we're really excited about this part of our strategy, which is there's 35 million Americans that have kidney disease and only around a million will have their kidneys fail. And so this is a little like finding a needle in the haystack. So you can actually make an intervention because you can't make an intervention on the 35 million. And so what we're devoting all our algorithms and our intelligence and working with people like Karen is to make sure that we put the equation together and move upstream. So those care teams actually intervene before you actually have all of this uh downstream illness on this stage. Uh many years ago, not that many years ago, I should say. But uh one of our heroes uh Bernard Tyson um talked about reconnecting the body and the head, the head and the body and, and really his devotion to the idea that we need to reintegrate mental health care with, with the rest of our physical health care because they really aren't separated. I know mental health is an area you're moving into and it's very personal for you. Talk a little bit if you would about how you plan, how CBS plans to start bridging that integration. Yeah. So, um you're right, it is very personal. Um And it is right now in, in the US. Um It is uh you know, a huge issue um with mental health, particularly in Children. And what we're seeing is we're seeing an enormous increase in suicide of um young adults. And so we're in um you know, an area that I think the country has never uh been in. Uh So we're doing a lot on, on this front. You know, one is we, we, we've expanded our E A P resources. We've actually put counselors in some of our CV S locations and we've also expanded our T A um mental health capability. So people have access and just to put a finer point on that before the pandemic, we had 9000 tele tele mental health visits. Now we're up to almost 20 million. So the 9000 to 20 million, right? And so the demand is, is amazing. Uh but it just, you know, shows that there is a uh a need in this country. Uh But we have a lot to do. Uh the provider system isn't working. People aren't going into the profession. We need to figure out ways to get people, people to go into the profession. And um you know, because your head is connected to your body. And, you know, I always use this example if you've heard me talk before women when they're uh you know, when they have a baby, it's the most joyful time. A lot of women suffer from postpartum depression and we never talk about it and we aren't ready and equipped um in their, you know, kind of post discharge plan to say this could be something you may experience and what do you, what what are the tools and capabilities that are available? So we're kind of we're thinking through all of those experiences so we can have those care plans. So we think about it holistically because until we think about it holistically, we're not gonna address those issues. And just to put some numbers on this, I think among Americans, 50 age 15 to 30 or 34 suicide is the number two cause of death. It's kind of amazing when you think about that and, and you know, the other thing that's, you know, that kind of uh talking numbers, you know, one in college, one in 12 college students have an actual suicide plan. So it's just been an amazing um you know, kind of issue that we all, we all have to deal with Javier. I mean, when people think about kidney disease, we think about this life and death situation. But what you also discovered in your very enormous practice um is how powerful the psychosocial effects are, how depressing it is. People literally go into a sort of a almost a death spasm emotionally. Um when they're thinking, when they realize that they've got to go through this, it's, it's a tough thing, right? And, and if you hear that you have cancer, you have age renal disease or you have any of these it's, it's obviously uh too much for people to take. So what we try and do is educate you through the process very slowly because we know at the beginning you're not even listening, you're just trying to go through that process. And so our education is months, not days or weeks, but we wanna make sure that you act to the new lifestyle, the new diet. So we surround yourself with a care team, dietician, social worker, uh et cetera so that you can address all of your life elements. But, but it's, it's really hard and, and one of the things that, that I want to do and, and Karen is doing as well is uh there's a lot of you that are taken on point to point solutions, right? And, and chasing a bit of the dollar if you will and, and it's, you know, called attribution and it's got all these different technical names that only people in this room know if not, you wouldn't be very popular in a cocktail party. Uh But at the end of the day, what we're trying to do with DaVita is to, to think like a patient, they don't think of attribution, they don't think of an app, they don't think of a, a point to point solution. So we're reverse engineering everything as if we were a patient and then surrounding ourselves with the best partners or the best acquisition in order to bridge that whole continuum. And the other thing that we're, we're working on together too, I think is just the reimbursement thing. Because if you think about health care in the future, there's two things that really are gonna change health care in the future, value based care, which we have models um together and tech. And those are the two things that if you think about what's going to make health care evolve and, and be more patient centered. It's those two things, you know, the other item is cost and, and part of the evolution, we have to figure out a way to make things uh less expensive or we're gonna drown in these costs. You're both in areas where, where you understand that the pressures of cost, um obviously how the air kidney, kidney cancer is extremely expensive or kidney disease is extremely expensive. 1% of the patient population, 6% of the US health care costs. Part of that is this engagement, we talked about the 140 or so. Um you know, visits that, that everybody has to go through. Um But how do you rethink the cost structure? Well, we're trying and, and one of the things that we're really proud of is when you put those type of stats, you're like, whoa, well, the reality is if you do it by the hour of care, so our patients are with us for four hours every session. We charge roughly like $90 an hour and I haven't had any health care, uh, in my life, even if I go get my teeth cleaned, be at that level. So we are very happy at the way we standardized care and we've delivered the efficiency of care, but that doesn't make it any cheaper because of the frequency of the exchange. Right. And so what we're trying to do is of course, do more things for patients to go home and to have more of the care that they want, wherever they want it. We have just a minute left um, here and I know you both actually have venture groups where you invest in innovation. Where are you looking? Uh what's the most exciting new technology that you, you're looking at now? Well, we're, we're taking a look at, um, you know, kind of all health tech services mostly, you know, looking at things in the home where, where are some of the advancements in the home? Because, um you know, we saw over the last couple of years, people are much more willing to do things in the home. And so we're looking at kind of that health, you know, health services tech in the home. Um Mostly, well, I have to say this is the first time we've had such uh esteemed Boston college graduates, both of them on our stage. Not, not since Doug Flutie drove the passing yard. Uh uh for I was actually there when he was there. Oh, you were so have we had this kind of a just PC crowd here. So thank you both for being here. Thank you. Thank you.

Katherine Gehl, Founder, Institute for Political Innovation
Kent Thiry, Former Chair and CEO, DaVita
In conversation with: Alan Murray, FORTUNE

CEO Initiative 2022 - Finding A Fix For Our Broken Politics

that was a pretty simple, straightforward message. Look, we spent a lot of time this morning talking about climate change. It's a highly complex problem uh in a perfect world. Maybe it would be better handled by functioning government, but we don't live in a perfect world as we just heard. And so businesses stepped into the fray. And it was really interesting to hear the three Ceos who were up here talk about the really measurable progress that they're uh making on this topic. Now, we're gonna turn we have turned to another problem that's equally complex our broken political system, uh fixing a dysfunctional political system that that empowers the extremes on both sides and disenfranchises uh most of the people who are in the center, a number of business leaders have said to me over the last couple of years, hey, you know, we're gonna work on climate. We don't want to have anything to do with politics. Keep me as far away from that mess as you can. And I understand that completely. But I guess the question for this next group is is that really a sustainable position? Can you really hold that position? I mean, a broken political system is probably as existential a problem for for business in the future, as a broken climate is uh and it's certainly no more complex to address uh than a broken climate. So, how do you fix it? I asked Senator Mansion that question. I don't think we, you know, more earmarks, I'm not sure would be the perfect answer, but that that was his answer, but we've got two people now joining us on stage who have been thinking about it, not just thinking about it, working on it and actually making some progress on it. So I really am excited about welcoming Catherine Bell and Kent theory to the stage. Please please join me. Thank you. So I don't think the senator solved the problem for us. I think earmarks is like saying that a black market is a substitute for a free market economy. Yeah, it didn't seem to be the perfect answer, but but you all have have both focused on this quite a lot, spent a lot of time on it. Catherine, you published an article in fortune, what was that? five years ago? Yeah. With my, with Michael Porter sort of analyzing the dysfunction of the system and comparing it to the problems of a duopoly. Over time, you've really focused on top five voting as maybe not the answer, but the most important answer. Why are you doing that? Well, first of all, thank you for publishing the first work on this in Fortune magazine. I think of it as the birthplace, uh, why I'm focused on final five voting. It really begins simply with what problem do we want to solve for? So there's a zillion problems in politics, Here's what I care about the ability of congress and state governments to solve problems in a sustainable way in the broad public interest, which is um, to say can they do what would need to be done to deal with the complex trade offs in our issues? Can they reach across the aisle, innovate, negotiate, make a deal and then vote yes on consensus legislation And those are all the things that nobody does today. So what I care about is enabling people to do their jobs, well, essentially think of it this way, one thing we wouldn't do as C. E. O. S. And that's what I was before I went into this political work is higher the best people we can and then say to them on day one, oh by the way, if you do your jobs really well in two years we're going to have to fire you. And that is what our existing election system says to all of our Congress people. And that is why we don't get the results and that's what we want to change. And so why does finally fix that final five changes it because right now, Because it makes all November votes matter. So we're all fond of saying elections matter our collective problems actually, that most elections don't matter at all on September 13 of this year. And this is according to research from United America, which can't co chairs 85% of seats in the US House were done over. We knew who they were because those were people who won Safe Republican seats in red districts or safe blue seats in blue, destroy All those winners were chosen and in the Senate, it's over 60% of winners who were chosen by the end of the primary. And the problem with that is not so much who got elected, but that it means that people who were elected in those primaries are working for the people who voted in the primary. And only 8% of the of eligible voters in this entire country participated in the blue and red primaries that picked 85% of our winners, only 8% of people. And this 8% of people on both sides is characterized you think they're totally different. They're the same and the wildly most wildly consequential way possible. They are characterized by negative partisanship. They hate the other party more than they even like their own their own party sides. And so because our representatives only work for this side or this side, they can't afford to engage with the other side because their bosses don't allow. And and Final Five forces them to can't you come at this also as the ceo uh you've you've you've had some significant successes. Uh tell us about what you think the path forward is. Well, first of all, I agree with Catherine. That Final Five is I think perhaps the nuclear weapon in the arsenal that literally if we could snap our fingers and have that system exists throughout America our democracy and the performance of our country would improve literally overnight. That's not available. But that snapping the finger and having it happen. So there's a number of other arrows in our quiver that are incredibly important things like open primaries 50 years ago just about everybody was an R. A. D. And so there were moderates in the D. And there are moderates in the R. Uh then what happened is more and more people were getting unhappy and left. Both parties which then skewed the parties even further to the left and the right. And so now in many states there are more independence than their R. D. S. R. R. S. And they're disenfranchised if they can't vote fully in a primary. The second is a cumulative effect of gerrymandering. A cancer on the body politic where now that 85% of safe seats, part of that is natural, organic self sorting. But more than half of it has to do with political manipulation in a way where we the citizens can fight back. And so in many states, about half the states in America there's ballot initiative processes, for example, we've successfully passed open primaries in some places. We've successfully done during batting reform in some places and we've succeeded in putting final five in some places. And so there are clear signs of progress but it only happens when people make it happen. Yeah, so this is an uphill battle. Why is if if it if you make it you make the argument so clear and simple that this is what we need to bring some sanity to our political process, what keeps it from happening. So let's talk about what needs to happen to get the sanity because it's far more in reach than we would assume. Five states with final five voting by 2025 would give us 10 senators freed from the tyranny of the party primary and some number of representatives depending on the state. Those 10 senators, still Democrats, still Republicans, still the same people elected on the existing system. But now answering to a majority of November voters instead of just this side and this side can form really the bench off of whom can come off of which can come the gang of six, the gang of eight, the gang of four to figure out that consensus way forward and buck the partisan stranglehold on stranglehold on governing because that's what their incentive to do. We don't need it in 50 states. And guess what? Five states by 2025 that's we have one state. We hopefully will get another one with Nevada on november eight. It's $100 million endeavor. We spent a billion dollars approximately on two Georgia Senate races last cycle. This is the best r. O I of any philanthropic or political investment out there today. Well, absolutely. This is a winnable fight and let me maybe for one second go off in the area, but what business can do, uh because there's a number of things we can do. And it's not at all clear that if business, if business does not engage, it's not at all clear that we're on the path to victory. I think we often underestimate our convening ability and our capabilities that can bring immeasurable value to some of these initiatives and political processes. Uh for example, in colorado where I'm from, we convene business convened all the days and the hours to work on legitimate non partisan gerrymandering reform. Uh we have the ability to bring people together and look at them and say, you know, we're here representing the middle of America that's been disenfranchised. And we want to see whether you care about more about your party or the country in this room as we start discussing this kind of reform. And then magic starts to happen over 12 weeks. Hundreds of hours of negotiating. There are times you would go into that room and you couldn't tell who was a D and who wasn't are at that point. And then the coalition was so impressive. With these are eyes business nonprofits that both parts of the state legislature passed the gerrymander reform unanimously never before happened in the history of America and would not have happened had the business community not taken the stand of saying, forget specific policy debates on immigration or tax or health care, we're about democracy, about a functional democracy and then in running these kind of campaigns we take for advantage. We forget how good we are facilitating we forget how good we are doing strategy and creating an operating plan and having a management process and having discipline and messaging discipline. We all do that every single day. You don't know how different that is until you step into one of these campaigns and see how lacking many of those skills are that we take for granted because we've been doing them in a competitive environment for 2030 years. So it's it's a situation where if business gets engaged, the probability that we preserve America's democracy in a fresh way, literally. But look here, here's the reason business leaders don't want to get engaged and they say it over and over again, is that an individual races? It looks like they're taking a partisan position and the extremes on the, on the republican side or advocate, you know, election deniers advocating issues on, on uh, social and human rights that many come can't live with. And on the right side, you have a group of people at the extremes who don't really believe in capitalism. Um, and so, you know, no sane businessperson wants to align themselves with one party or the other. So how do you advance this without looking in individual cases like you're taking sides? Well, so in this case, final five voting is uniquely, uh, I would say it's a uniter, which is to say that in Nevada, both parties are opposing final side voting. So it's already accomplished that. Yes. Uh, but here's the thing, people do think, oh, if you're talking about politics that somehow partisan it's divisive, we shouldn't touch that with business, but Kent shows what can be done. He's really the ideal model for this. Um, I don't know if anyone else has done what he's done from business perspective that the system is not partisan. Final Five voting is not a trojan horse for either party's advantage. In fact, in Nevada, we have funders of that Nevada initiative who are opposing each other in the candidate races in Nevada but are aligned on what the system should be to solve problems going forward. But that's great. But that's a little unusual right. Reform efforts tend to generate more support on the left and on the right. Yeah, this this this is true. And so we in the in the movement have to work very hard about there's about 250 do gooder democracy organizations in America right now, we sort of stopped counting and half of them have started in the last five years and 90% of them have an operating budget of a million and half for less. So it's a cottage industry fragmented undercapitalized hand to mouth. Uh, and and and we need to, we need to change that in order to be more coherent. There's a tremendous amount of, of donor capital willing to enter this this fight, but they don't know who actually get stuff done and who doesn't, uh, and it's, it's our job. It's coming on the mo, on the movement to separate. There's, there's donors, there's doers and there's dreamers. Uh, we need to make the donors more comfortable as to who are the doers that actually get these things done, uh, in the states, uh, and separate from the dreamers who have wonderful power point and are very aspirational but simply don't have the impact. And, and if I'm hearing you both right, the one thing you feel you need is money. Two things we need. Actually one thing more than money. And that is the convening power of business and the advocacy of business. How many of you have heard of final five voting? Probably, you know, none of. Okay, a couple of people. Okay, that's pretty good. Okay. But nobody knows this is a I'll go so far saying the key solution to our problems. Nobody's heard of it. So your your in the media, you're in front of your employees, you have a voice and to bring up this nonpartisan cross partisan systemic change. That's pro voter that re enfranchise is every one of your employees on the left and the right is totally one of the most important things so that it begins to be known. And then the second thing is the investment. It's $100 million, 100 companies, a million dollars each. This are these organizations that ken and I are a part of in these movements for final five voting. And the other thing Kent is talking about need the capital that it doesn't advance without the capital that, that uh, everyone wants to avoid ending up in the Disney dilemma where you're getting hammered by both sides and where your shareholders are angry that you get yourself in that mess, we all want to avoid that. The good news is that feasible? First of all, you can make it easy for your people to vote second, you can engage in education, fact based education on things like election, integrity importantly. However, you can also provide other loads of levels of support that don't involve all sorts of political risk, like helping your employees become poll workers and otherwise involved helping some of your having some of your technology people help county clerks upgrade their existing cyber practices, etcetera. So none of that is going to get you on the front page of the florida times with, with both Rs and Ds criticizing you. And then lastly working on these reform issues, these structural reform issues like gerrymandering and, and the rest that is literally a partisan neutral process. Uh, and it is possible to create that narrative that fits with that and makes a huge difference. Kathryn Kent, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. Very, very

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