Coalition

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Cyber 60 2023-Coalition

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 Sen. Sonya Halpern, Georgia State Senator and Vice Chair, Senate Democratic Caucus Bruce LeVell, Trump Senior Campaign Surrogate, Former Executive Director National Diversity Coalition for Trump Dennis Lockhart, Former CEO,  Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta Moderator: Diane Brady, Executive Director, Fortune Live Media and CEO Initiative, Fortune   

Impact Initiative 2024: Election 2024 - The Future of ESG and DEI

Photography by Rebecca Greenfield/Fortune

Conferences

Sen. Sonya Halpern, Senate Democratic Caucus, Bruce LeVell, Former Executive Director National Diversity Coalition for Trump, Dennis Lockhart, Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta, Diane Brady, Fortune

You know, we were commenting backstage actually on how calm the music was. And uh and so we started talking about walk up songs. I actually wanna start with that. What would be your walk up song to come on and energize us, what would it be? I said, I'm gonna say send or so and then I'll call you. I said, Stevie Wonder Boogie on reggae woman. Hey, how about for you? Well, the first one was going to fly, you know, rock the rocky theme or another one bites the dust. It depends on how we're going to act. Oh, we have a sunny outlook or a dark outlook here. How about you, Dennis? This is a walk up song. You walk up on the, you know, like let's think of rest, walk on by. How about that? Ok, I like that. So let's now move from our walk up songs to ESG Well, let's talk about climate change because I think one good way to just level set is on a scale of 1 to 10 with one being like it's not important and 10 being it's the most urgent issue. Where do you think in terms of priority for the party. It should be. Let's start with you. Obviously, the Democrat, I mean, I think for the Democratic Party it's way up there. So I think the number would you put, I'm gonna say 778, you know, it's way up there for us. How about for you? I think it's more like for me, a two, a two which, which means that it's just not, I think, well, I've been blessed to world travel. So I think that the US, if you're, we're speaking about the US does a, a leading edge in terms of how we uh govern our emissions, etcetera based on our foreign adversaries and across the country. So um obviously, I, I would hope a lot of our uh neighboring countries would adopt some of our uh initiatives in terms to combat that issue. So that you're speaking obviously as a surrogate, you'd say if, if Trump up here, it would be a two. So that's, yeah, I think for me personally, ok. Yeah, I think there's more critical issues on the domestic side and foreign, you know, our proxy wars that are going on that? Are we talking about the former fed president over here? What would I think I won't paint it politically. I'll just say, I think climate is the defining challenge of our age. So from 1 to 10, where would you rank it as a priority? Nine or 10, 9 or 10? That's interesting. So, that the former fed president ranks higher, the downsides, which are all a matter of probabilities, the downsides are devastating, you know. Well, one of the things I, I'm from New York so it's a bit of a flyover state from an ad perspective. We haven't actually seen many because they just here, of course, I've seen a lot on TV, just in the space of, you know, coming here yesterday. And one of the things I'm curious about is the degree to which this is factoring into politics. And I know this was discussed yesterday, but here we have this situation with, you know, in a natural disaster, we tend to come together as a country. And right now we're seeing, you know, with hurricane Helene, you know, this, this disinformation campaign, I'm actually gonna, I'm gonna go to you first. You know, we've got another major storm. How do you, how is that impacting the discussions around just what's happening with whether it's climate change or otherwise the discussion? I mean, and this is a really important issue for us here, obviously Hurricane Helene devastated parts of Georgia that still don't have power. And of course, with the new one coming, I mean, ultimately, what Georgia has been able to do is work towards recovery. Um, you heard all of the disinformation really, the lies that the president and the vice president hadn't contacted our governor who very clearly articulated that that wasn't true. I mean, I think the challenge is that, you know, we're requiring courageous leadership in areas where it shouldn't require courage. Right. So the governor gets credit for saying the truth. And in fact, you've got a whole other arm of people who want you to believe something different. And when information is flying as quickly as it does, it's easy for people to be in their own echo chamber. That's really the biggest problem. People don't break out of their own echo chamber and the algorithms are made specifically. So you only hear what you wanna hear. Well, and, and let me go to you because do you think, first of all, there's been a big problem with disinformation right now with, with what's happening with, you mean the fake news? I think I'm talking specifically about, you know, the situation around the handling. Well, you know, it's, it's, you know, I, like we said in the green room, you know, obviously the social media apparatus is perpetuated and streamline information more, you know, quicker. But I still think it's, it's historically has always been a pa uh a partisan situation on who react fast or whatever. And, you know, I, I think, you know, for me, you know, respectfully, I've been through hurricane um Alicia when I lived in Houston, I've, I've seen uh uh what happened with Katrina. Our church went there and spent a month down there when Dennis actually came in a month after Katrina, didn't you? Not after but let me, yeah, let me get back. I just wanna focus on the issue at hand, which is really about, um, you know, this is a tight race, this happens to happen right now. It's all fair, sort of in love and war. I mean, because there is, when you look at sort of the politicization of this, I think it gets to really how we talk about climate, how we talk about diversity. Um We've seen, we've heard the president say things, you know, how would you address that? Do you think it's been, this is these are political issues or do you feel like it's been fair how the characterization of the disaster has been handled? I think, you know, it's, you know, this is one of these things where and guys, you know, I, I'm from the take care of your neighbor generation and you're always gonna have, especially during the election season, it's been going on. I think people have short memories, but at the end of the day, it's the resiliency of our ministries and our churches and our families and our community that prevail and they, and, and I, and that's what I mainly focused on and, and, but I will tell you this though and I didn't, I didn't get to finish this though. I long and some of the audience can identify this. I'm dating myself. I want the Monica Kaufmans, the Brenda Woods. I want the real journalists back, not the opinionated folks that just go up there and opinionate everything instead of just report the news. So a lot of it gets, you think it's been misreported then? I mean, I just, I, I don't want to focus too much on this but also, you know, I think that area where you're here as a, as a surrogate, let me go to Dennis because, you know, obviously, um, how do you think? I mean, you've seen the impact impact on the economy but the, these have become partisan issues, issues that, that to some extent really should be factual science based, come together as a nation issues. How you, how do you, what do you see from your perch? Well, I, I see um, an immense amount of noise that should not be taken seriously uh noise in the political campaigns and noise in general, uh uh around the economy, the politicization of matters that we can be relatively certain of by looking at facts and we, we just have gotten away from that. Um, and it's, it's not only the perpetrators, it's the receivers of the information who have gotten away from that and don't exercise discipline in listening to authorities, do you know? II I know it's um always tempting when we talk about diversity to immediately go to race. I think one of the areas in which business in particular has really felt the impact is actually LGBT Q plus. Now, I know there's, there's the transgender issue. But also we've seen Toyota Harley Davidson, John Deere, a lot of them go back on their de I policies, you know, say that they're overtly not gonna support pride parades, et cetera. Give me some sense from, from that, you know, with that issue in particular, how are you thinking about that? And what give us a sense of what's around the corner? I mean, I think more of that is around the court. The thing is that it's, it all depends on who wins, but either way we're gonna see more of that, right? If you have a Kamala Harris as president, whose administration is gonna be pushing to um be much more inclusive, you're gonna still feel a push back against that and loud voices saying this isn't right and this is why she shouldn't be president. If a Donald Trump becomes president, you will see from that administration, a paring back of um e equity of inclusiveness and, and funding of initiatives even at the federal government department level that would help to continue to move people forward. And then you're gonna hear from my side, push back against that. Um to some extent, I think a lot of this conversation, particularly Post George Floyd in 2020 you saw so many businesses say, ok, this is a flashpoint moment. Let me actually embrace and move forward with these initiatives that maybe I've been dabbling in. Um, and I don't think that we have seen that kind of activity since the civil rights movement. And so now operations step up along the way. George Floyd too. That's exactly right. So, but now we're seeing the counter reaction to that and there, the counter reaction aside from where you, and obviously I'm gonna ask you, you're a businessman too to, uh, so I think that it, I think that the way that it's being framed makes it very easy to think that companies took it too far. And I think that whenever you're changing culture in generally in general, right there is a process to doing that and getting people to move along with you. And I do think that the rate of change happened so quickly that a lot of people's heads kind of spun and they couldn't, they wrap their head around what was happening as quickly as the make the change was happening. How do you feel about this Bruce? So I think that is an issue where really there's a sense you wanna be quiet right now about some of these issues. If, especially if you're in the corporate realm where a lot of people in these seats here, the, there's that we've created sort of real partisan divide over it. Yeah. Well, you know, I listen, II, I know some board of trustee folks in some of our fortune 500 companies, I won't mention their names obviously because I do a lot of media. But um I think there was good intentions respectfully. And some of the, especially some of the bigger banks and some of the other, uh, bigger fortune three and 500 companies. I think the intentions were good. But you see where it ended and, you know, I've been in business 29 years in Atlanta and I came here with $35 and, and, um, it's been very good to me. Atlanta ups and downs the financial crash, 08, as well as the pandemic. We went through and I, I think that I, I did speak to a lot of my other employees or business owners about where I was coming today and the philosophy was, and I speak for myself. I, I put all my eggs in my employees and then the customer second. And so I think that the workplace is to, is to, is to afford, you know, put everything you can to help your employee be successful. But, but the social issues, I, I just like them before and after the job where they can come to work and they don't have to, they can just do their job, go home, go to their mosque, go to their temple, go to the church. Let me ask you if you don't mind because you're in this role right now. And then I want to go to Dan's Top with this. But you are, um you are, I think you're in such a unique role where you really are. The voice. President Trump? Are there moments? Have there been any moments? Let's take place where you felt a disconnect yourself out or any disappointment around his rhetoric? And I'll ask you. Yeah. I, I think for me and I said it earlier in the groom, I'm more, I'm strictly a numbers man. I'm just not, but we're emotional creatures. How do you feel when it comes to politics? I'm not. I'm really not. I'm no, because I'm, I'm a community guy. Everyone that knows me in Atlanta all the way back from our great civil rights icons here, which my family were on that side historically, that some of them are on that Montgomery bus boy congress. So how often do you talk to the president? Our former president? I should say Trump, we talk. How often was that? Like, I mean, do you feel like he represents a lot of your views on race and such? Well, II, I think he represents the, the America first agenda which is pushing back on just not, not relying on government, but pushing it where we rely on each other as a, as a country, as a community. And that's something I gravitate to. Then let me, let me, let me ask you in terms of where you sit um talk a little bit with. I mean, I know we're talking about ES CD E I, but obviously the economy is the number one issue. How much are these factors? Um going to impact the economy. It's hard to, hard for me to see that the pendulum swinging on DE I or even ESG is going to have a major impact on the macro economy, macro economy is such a, a, an enormous, uh social system that it's somewhat impervious to some of these pendulum swing kinds of issues on, uh, and the economy is in, in really good shape. I think the issues that we have to worry about are fiscal and because it just doesn't seem to be uh any appetite to address the fiscal situation. And for that matter, the, the solutions are unpalatable and probably not going to pass muster politically. You know, so we have very, with some time left, I'd like you to speak to the audience right now in terms of give us both your perspective, some advice and, and, and from where you sit, I know that you're gonna, you know, you're up, you're taught a lot of people can be up for re-election. What, um how do you think about these issues in terms of how it's both dividing people apart and where we come together, there are a lot of issues that have been politicized and, and if you are an elected, who's a democrat or an elected, who is a Republican, you often feel that pressure of conforming and retreating to your corners that are completely different corners and not actually coming together. I think the challenge is to have more people and I and I do do this. But the challenge is to have more people have the confidence to say that problem solving is more important than actually, you know, constantly fighting. At some point, compromise has become a dirty word. Much more at the federal level than I would say that it. That's not true at every state legislature, but at the federal level, compromise has become such a dirty word for you all in business. What I would tell you is that you already know that this kind of work is about future proofing your business so you can continue to do that work. At this point, there have not been any laws and policies that have been passed, that have held muster in court that would force you to stop at the end of the day, I wanna, I wanna get, I wanna, I wanna give you a chance, Bruce, I wanna give you a chance. What can we expect? You know, if Trump, if there's a next second Trump administration on these issues, especially around race, climate, et cetera, what would you say to the audience? Well, I, well, it's getting back to what is unfinished business was. I think it was more of the, you know, putting the responsibility back to we, the people. Um and not look at the government and, you know, guys, I, I come from a generation where the leadership in your community wasn't the Congress person or the statehouse it was that great preacher down the street. It was that great educator that took every dot He took a penny, do her last dollar out of her purse and bought pencils for her students. It was that, that man, uh that banker that gave you that chance on your first loan when you were 19 years old, you know, that community and in that great church. And I think that's been a part of my life for my whole life. And may I ask one question, Bruce? I'm sorry, because I know time is tight. Um You know, how do you feel, conversations about race and climate are gonna change anything specific there? II, I just, I never see it in the lens of, of, you know, we've had some historical issues granted here in Atlanta, but I think we've gotten a lot better and we're getting better. Let me give some, some last word Haiku almost for you. Just one second here. Well, I'll just, I'll just make a point to the question of what's at stake in this particular election, broadly, the election, not just the presidential election, but the election and that is that is the ability to, to appoint judges because what we've come to in our governance is the courts decide at the end of the day and their decisions are lasting. Yeah, very much. So, listen, I could talk all day. You're all fascinating. Thank you so much. Please join me in. Thanking our speakers.

Meena Flynn, Co-head, Global Private Wealth Management, Goldman Sachs 
Jaclyn Rice Nelson, Co-founder and General Partner, Coalition Operators
Moderator: Terri Burns, Investor; Co-chair, Fortune Brainstorm Tech

MPW Next Gen 2022 - Wealth Generation

Meena Flynn, Goldman Sachs 
Jaclyn Rice Nelson, Coalition Operators
Terri Burns, Fortune Brainstorm Tech

Meena Flynn, Co-head, Global Private Wealth Management, Goldman Sachs 
Jaclyn Rice Nelson, Co-founder and General Partner, Coalition Operators
Terri Burns, Investor; Co-chair, Fortune Brainstorm Tech

throughout today. We've heard from innovative entrepreneurs and inspiring leaders as they discussed, how they built and managed a diverse set of businesses. The capital accumulation is impressive, but how do we ensure that we pass it on to future generations. These questions could not be more timely given the widespread economic turmoil, rising inflation and interest rates and the looming prospect of a recession. How will we pass on the wealth up next? We'll discuss a number of investing strategies to generate long term wealth and how to invest for social impact. Please welcome Mina Flynn, co head of global private wealth management at Goldman Sachs and Jaclyn Reiss nelson, co founder and general partner of coalition operator. Welcome welcome. Hi Meena. Hi Jacqueline. How you guys doing so Good. 100%. So let's cut straight to the chase. I'm sure everyone here has been looking at their investment accounts over the last few weeks and months and crying at least I certainly have. What opportunity are we facing right now given the current market climate and therefore how should we all behave in terms of wealth creation? You can start with you. Sure. Sure. Um yes, all of us have been crying because I think the only things that have worked in this market over the last year are carbs and carbon. So um energy and agriculture and despite um usually where equity markets and fixed income act adversely. Um, it's been a year where both equities and fixed income have declined and have declined materially. And the reason um, is really the known unknowns is what uh, you know, we're focused on. And that would be recession, that would be the central bank increasing interest rates to a point that does put us in recession to offset inflation and then also geopolitical concerns. So given that backdrop, um our perspective is that in the US we're actually not going to see a recession, that's not where consensus is consensus is that we are definitely going to see one, but even if we do see one, our view is that growth is going to be relatively anemic. Um but it won't be that substantial from a downtrend perspective, because if you think about the components of inflation, it's really been wage inflation, it's been rental inflation and it's been supply chain, supply chains are normalizing there's a huge supply of apartments that are coming um that are coming on the market and you've actually got a job market that is uh cooling. And so we do think inflation is going to come down um from relatively high levels right now. So with that backdrop, um I would recommend staying invested if you are invested in us equities and doing that in a diversified manner. And the reason why is because most of clients, despite the move that we've had this year, most of our clients are still sitting on gains is I would assume many of you are, if you have been investing for quite some time and there's really a significant after tax consequence of selling, it's also impossible to time markets. And so let me just give you a stat on that. If you were invested in the equity market, the SNP for the last five years, the market would have returned roughly 12% per year, 12% per year. If you were out of the market on the 50 best days, you would have earned negative 15%. And so whether we do a recession, we don't do a recession. If you are in a diversified us focused portfolio, we recommend staying invested for incremental capital. I think fixed income is finally attractive. You finally have an alternative from a risk perspective and so high grade fixed income, if you have the opportunity to do alternative investments and invest in companies such as Jackie's, I would, I would make those investments and then also um from an equity perspective, um take, you know, called take a 6-18 month approach and add exposure to the markets relatively systematically over that time period. The more risk risk conscious, you are make that over a long time longer time period, the less risk averse, you are doing that over a shorter time period. Oh, um, sorry, um, I love you already, because first of all, you already told me there's not a recession and now you're getting the investors, so this is the best channel ever. I think first of all, that's amazing news. Um and I think the way I kind of thought about things is similar in the sense that there is a portfolio that you're optimizing and I think what you're guiding on is how to optimize with your cash, which is amazing. Hopefully many of us have a lot of that. Um and then in addition the other two assets that you definitely have are your time and your expertise and that's really where I sort of think about building a portfolio for your career and in this moment that becomes even more important because even if we're not heading for a recession, which I sincerely hope we are now not the things that used to be risky like startups are now even riskier and the things that used to feel safe, like working at google or amazon or meta no longer do with them like laying off tens of thousands of people per week. Um and so how do you really think about balancing the portfolio of time and energy that you have and where can you really poor that? Um And this is how I manage my career as well. I am the Ceo co founder and Ceo of a company called Tribe ai we are a network of top machine learning engineers and data scientists, you can kind of think of it as a kind of talent agency or matchmaker for top Ai talent to companies who really need this type of talent. Um and then in addition I started a fund called coalition um and we invest in early stage tech companies, some of them are in the room, we have Christina from a quest and Rebecca from little otter. Um, we have someone from santa as well. Um, so really, really cool companies. Um, but then in addition we've built this model to get women onto cap tables, top venture backed companies at scale. And the reason I believe this really matters is because, um, while this is not a tech centric thing, um, there is, and I really believe that will continue to be dramatic wealth creation opportunities happening in tech over the next generations. And I have a very, I get to be the scandalous person on the panel and have a very shameless Agenda to make a lot of women very wealthy. Um, and that, and that is not always happening today. Um, so if you look at recent acquisitions and exits companies like sigma, um, that sold for $20 billion. I see nodding heads already to adobe. There wasn't one woman on the cap table. Yeah, gas. So that doesn't mean that there were no women who benefited from that. But my gosh, there's so many people who became exorbitantly wealthy. Um, and a very small percentage of those are going to be women. Um, and so this is the thing that a coalition, we really want to change. We are only going to be one piece of the problem, but starting to think about how you can spend your time kind of in fractional ways and lend your expertise in exchange for equity is really, I think where I've been focused, I want to double down on this point because as as you mentioned, women are poised to control more assets than ever before in the coming years. What about this moment is unique in particular to the female investor base? How should the female investor base really be thinking about having access to these types of opportunities? Um, thinking about their own portfolios and our own portfolios and risk assessments of wealth wealth generation. So, um, just in terms of females controlling more wealth, um, we anticipate the amount of wealth that females are going to manage to double um, into 2030. Um, and so roughly right now women control a third of us household wealth. We think that's gonna again more than double. Why is that? Um one is you have aging baby boomers. The first, um you know, women tend to marry five years older and they tend to outlive men by two years. And so the first wealth transition goes from the patriarch to the matriarch. Second, you have more women that are making decisions for their household financial decisions. And third, just Jackie mentioned, you have more women making money. So those are the reasons why women are going to be controlling many, you know, more assets going forward. Um the first thing I would say is just don't be passive about it if your name is on that statement that financial statement get involved, ask the questions and that's what I found that I really enjoyed when working with our female clients is that they are not ashamed to ask anything. Um And and it's also you know, I would say that they're not necessarily more risk averse. Like I think sometimes women get tagged with being more risk averse, they're just really more risk aware. And in terms of how they you know, if if I was qualitatively going to say what is a different investing trend of women versus men, I would say that women really want to invest to propel their communities further. And so if you think about E. S. G. It's really the s is where I found most of our female clients focused, how can I help, you know, from a housing affordability from an education perspective, how can I help propel markets, communities etcetera ford and make money at the same time. And in many ways they are giving their money from a philanthropic perspective in the same way they're investing and you no longer need sub optimal returns when you're investing in this fashion. It's really interesting. Um I even just start with trends across people. Um The reality is that people tend to invest in their networks. Um it's just easier who do you know um who's next to you, who's sort of telling you about whatever it is, whether it's crypto hopefully not F. T. X. Um but you know, you're you're sort of learning from the people around you. Um and for better and largely for worse people tend to to spend time in homogeneous groups. Um and so that means that they end up investing in people who look a lot like them. Now. That has been a problem historically, when the people who have largely been check writers or founders that have gotten funding have been men or angel investors. So people who make money from companies like Sigma, then go on to pour that money back into the ecosystem into people who look like them. Now, the thing I get really excited about is that the people who are amassing wealth are changing. And so now we get to pour that money back into people who look like us who look like people in this room um and support the next generation of female entrepreneurs, of GPS adventure funds of executives of large fortune 500 companies, we saw many of them today and over the past few days. Um And I think that that is why this is a really exciting moment. And tipping point and that to me is why wealth matters, it's because then we can pour it into communities and fuel a future that we all believe and I want to see. Um and when I just look at coalition as a microcosm of that, there are four of us, we are all founders and operators ourselves, we are all women. Um, and we have no explicit uh, sort of charter or mandate to invest in women. Um, but our goal is truly just to generate as much financial return as we can. So we are just a pure investment venture fund. Um, and yet when we pulled the numbers, we saw that 68 percent of the founding teams we invested in had a woman or a person of color on the founding team. And so it's just to highlight that, um, there are incredible opportunities out there to generate huge returns and also, you know, invest in the s which is communities of people who can go on to do incredible things. Any questions from the audience right there? Yeah. Hey there, Whitney Magnuson. I have seen some research saying that millennials and now gen z following are largely trying to retire at earlier ages than ever. Early retirement being a key motivator. Now, some of that might be kind of wishful Thinking at some point. But what, what advice would you have that may differ from kind of traditional portfolio management or things for uh, individuals who are trying to pursue something other than a 40-year working lifetime. So I'm happy to start. So at first day save and invest as much as possible and as I said, stay invested as well. And let me just expand on that a little bit. What we see as being the worst, worst, um, wealth destructor. It's a permanent loss in somebody's portfolio. How do you get a permanent loss? You get a permanent loss because you're too conservative and you can't keep up with inflation. So your whole portfolio is in bonds that is not going to help you retire on the other end of the spectrum. You are invested in a very concentrated position. That as you know some work very well, some have idiosyncratic experiences or you are in a portfolio where when you do look at it, you can't sleep and you sell at the wrong time, right? Or you take on leverage whatever it might be. So how can I save as much as I can right now to invest and have those compounding returns in a way that is diversified and has a growth aspect to, it is not too conservative that allows me to sleep well and grow that over time. So I think Nina is going to be the true expert here. I might just take this in a slightly different twist, which is that prior to the panel we were chatting um what if we, you know had life changing outcomes, what would we do in our lives? We got deep before the panel um and uh and I think we both kind of came to, we actually love what we're doing, we would probably be doing the same thing. We just might be doing a little less of it or like a lot less of it um and having a little bit more time freedom, flexibility um and so I I sort of share that as an alternative because there are now are so many more ways to work on a fractional basis work sort of not just in traditional part time, which means you work full time and get paid for part time, but actually like really work you know for designated amounts of time and get paid really really well for your expertise rather than in your time for the value you create and produce. Um And this is very much what I focus on that tribe for data scientists and engineers. Um but there are there are many other ways to do this um and you know that might not be the sort of like laying on the beach retirement that everyone has in mind. Um but I think finding ways to have a little bit of the best of both worlds is probably a little bit more where where I orient I want to go back to um this concept of risk and how to really think about um risk averse versus risk aware what might prevent folks from ultimately facing their wealth generation or preservation goal. Um and how should folks consider risk? What's what's what's your advice in terms of how people should really think about that? So I I think about it again as as a permanent loss and you don't want to experience a permanent loss and so you need to have a portfolio that is diversified enough that will outpace inflation and by the way inflation for this room is not the C. P. I. Inflation for this room is actually higher because if you look at medical costs, if you look at college, you know education, you look at the shoes, it's 1.5 times inflation actually, Especially it's literally I'm not even joking, there's an index that's called the clue we index. It's the cost of living extremely well index and it's 1.5 times. So if inflation is 10%, it's 15% on an after tax basis, you have to make 15% to break event. Right? So the biggest thing like I said is avoiding a permanent loss. Um and so it's keeping up with inflation but also you know, not extending yourself to the point where you're not um where you're not comfortable. So I think of it again, going back to sort of career philosophy is um when you're earlier in your career, the best thing you can do is be head down all in on your job really. The only currency you have is your ability to outwork everyone else when you get more senior. Um It's actually quite the opposite. It's why we're all here. Um You get tremendous benefit from looking up um from getting, you know more perspectives experience or across across a range of industries companies um just different exposure to groups of people, um, and ideas. And I think one of the biggest risks for, for women is staying heads down as you get to the more senior levels or trying to really break into these more senior levels. Um, Deb Deb lieu of ancestry spoke about how Cheryl Sandberg opened the door to board positions for her. Um, and how, uh, you know, that overnight, you know, changed roles she was eligible for. Um Now that's fantastic, but that, that's probably not a solution at scale. Um Well, while she's doing incredible work, um, and and I think that this is something that, that we felt personally mentioned, there are four of us, we each have had careers and startups raised over a billion dollars collectively, uh for those companies, we've had jobs inventor and yet that we all came to investing personally very late. Um, and when we did, we realized that none of our female peers were participating. Um and all of our male peers were. Um and this is really, I think the missed opportunity for for everyone in this room, um these are the people who then go on to have more influence on our system, um, and also more wealth generation opportunities. Um, and I think that when we really think about what, what, what's one tangible thing you can do, um it's to really seek out some of these opportunities, whether it's investing advising, um, you know, joining groups like I know chief is here, um, and really getting that exposure exactly your point around, um, not looking down, not looking down, but looking up. I think it's a great note to end on. Thank you both. Mina Jacqueline. You both have been wonderful. Thank you.

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