Chapter

Fortune's list of venture- and private-equity-backed startups using the profit motive to solve societal problems.

Impact-20-2023-Chapter

Shopping for a well-rounded medical plan isn’t easy—especially for the older demographic that qualifies for Medicare in the U.S. For the past three years Chapter has had this population covered, helping customers navigate deadlines and eligibility issues and choose, if they desire, from among an array of private Medicare Advantage plans.<br />
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Chapter’s platform includes health plans from more than 100 different providers and Medicare plans including Advantage, supplemental, and special needs plans. The company partners with various financial institutions, health systems, and other organizations to help connect it with advice-seekers, offering an array of guidance via webinars and consultations with licensed experts. Chapter has also partnered with Uber Health to help Chapter customers access rides, prescriptions, and grocery deliveries in an easy and affordable way. The company says that its average customer saves more than $2,400 per year in medical costs.

Impact 20

Chapter Company Profile, Stock Price, News, Rankings

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chapter

Chapter Company Profile, Stock Price, News, Rankings | Fortune

Wayfair thrived during the pandemic, scaling to over 30 million products and rising to #217 on the Fortune 500. But after a post-COVID slump, it’s rethinking its strategy. In 2024, the company opened its first large-format retail store and rolled out new AI tools to reimagine how people shop for their homes. Here’s how Wayfair is betting on technology and in-person retail to power its next chapter in a crowded home-goods market.


How Wayfair’s Betting on AI to Future Proof its $12B Empire 

Wayfair is betting big on AI and physical retail to reconnect with shopper

Tech

Wayfair thrived during the pandemic, scaling to over 30 million products and rising to #217 on the Fortune 500. But after a post-COVID slump, it’s rethinking its strategy

How Wayfair Built a $12 Billion Home Retail Empire 

Wayfair built its multi-billion dollar business by selling home goods online, eventually scaling to more than 30 million products. Today, it's the largest online home goods retailer in the United States, but after a pandemic boom in sales, growth slumped, and so did the company's stock price. Now Wayfair is pivoting. In 2024, it stepped into physical retail with its first large format store. At the same time, it's betting on AI to streamline operations and reimagine how shoppers discover furniture. So we've been using the sort of text to image generation capability to generate an AI to be able to showcase a whole bunch of different images that our customers can then react to and say, oh, I like this. Here's how Wayfair built a $12 billion home goods empire. And how it's using AI and big box retail to fuel its next chapter. Founded in 2002 as a network of niche furniture sites, Wayfair evolved into a sprawling online marketplace. It now offers over 30 million products from around 20,000 suppliers. It also runs a lineup of lifestyle and luxury brands. The main basic difference between Wayfair and some of its other home furnishing competitors is that it is a marketplace platform, so they don't own any of their inventory. Everything is just forward position. on their site so that consumers can use it from the many vendors that they work with. Unlike many of its competitors, Wayfair doesn't manufacture or own its inventory. Instead, it connects shoppers with third party suppliers. This dropship business model allowed Wayfair to scale quickly, offering an enormous product catalog while keeping fixed costs low. Having these relationships with some of these smaller vendors is really unique in that it's a More visible way for the vendors to reach a much broader total addressable market. It helps elevate the business of small vendors while it also helps provide more choices to consumers for Wayfair. During the pandemic, that model helped the company thrive. Sales surged by 45% in 2020 as consumers redecorated during lockdowns. The next year, Wayfair shot up the Fortune 500 rankings, climbing more than 100. 30 spots to land at number 217. When we look back at COVID, that clearly accelerated e-commerce adoption across a number of categories, things like grocery and furniture. We saw the share price really rise to around $350 a share, but post-pandemic demand cooled as interest rates climbed and inflation pinched household budgets. Spending on big ticket furniture slowed. Wayfair's stock lost over 80% of its. between 2021 and early 2023, investors realized things are going to reopen. People are traveling. They're eating at restaurants again, and it wasn't idiosyncratic to Wayfair. It was across the industry, right? All of the peers really saw that phenomenon. Major home retailers like Bed Bath and Beyond filed for bankruptcy in 2023, shuttering hundreds of stores around the country. Despite declining sales post pandemic, Wayfair was. A to weather the market volatility. You know, if you look at somebody like Bed Bath and Beyond, there were liquidity issues. Interestingly, despite the fact that really Wayfair isn't generating a whole lot of profitability, the way that the capital structure works is that they don't really need that same sort of liquidity. But as the online home retail market has become more crowded, Wayfair is looking for ways to improve its e-commerce model and its customer experience. So we've been applying AI for quite some time, probably over a decade. The more recent advancements are allowing us to take that to yet another level. Fiona Tan is Wayfair's chief technology officer. Over the last few years, she has helped lead the company's investments in AI. It's a category where it's hard for our customers sometimes to describe what they're looking for. And then sometimes they don't really even know what they're looking for, so we've been using the sort of text to image generation capability to generate a AI to be able to showcase, you know, a whole bunch of different images that our customers can then react to and say, oh, I like this. I didn't know, I don't know what it's called, but it speaks to me. In 2025, Wayfair debuted a generative AI platform called Muse. The tool allows shoppers to curate AI generated home designs in certain styles. From there, the platform will recommend Wayfair products that fit the look. And then you can even tailor it a little bit more and just say, OK, well I like this, but I prefer green chairs instead of beige, and as you interact with muse, it'll generate you another image based on what you're saying. As the customers are inspired and engaged more with us, we're able to discern better what the intent and what their style preferences are, maybe what the budget preferences are, and then it allows us. And then recommend products for them. Waver says that level of personalization may help reduce return rates by giving customers more confidence in their purchases because the customers are more confident of the products that they buy or they've been able to get more information about it, ideally what you also see is there are fewer returns, right, because you're able to help them make um more. Informed decisions. Behind the scenes, Wayfair's legal, HR, and finance teams are also using AI to process data faster and streamline operations. For example, our legal teams using it to be able to look at, you know, user reviews to look for items that may have caused any kind of injury, and then you'll have examples in the technology department. Our accounting and finance team is also leveraging it. So it's really across the enterprise. While AI is helping to streamline Wayfair's digital operations, the company is also testing a more traditional strategy opening physical stores. In May 2024, Wayfair opened its first large format retail store in Wilma, Illinois, just outside of Chicago. The 150,000. A square foot store features showrooms, interior design services, and a cafe. Instead of spending marketing dollars on digital spend, you're spending your marketing dollars on physical spend. While competitors like William Sonoma benefit from built-in visibility through their retail locations, Wayfair has had to rely more heavily on advertising. every, every home. In 2024, they spent about 12% of their net revenue on advertising, while competitors like William Sonoma spent about 7% and Restoration Hardware only spent 4%. Wayfair leans into advertising a little bit more because it's hard to remain visible when you're an e-commerce only retailer, right? And so, You know, reminding consumers that you exist isn't free. Wayfair's new store location sits strategically along a major commuter highway. Since the opening of the store, Wayfair says sales in Illinois have jumped around 15%. Based on early results, Wayfair plans to open two more large format stores, one in Atlanta, Georgia and another in Yonkers, New York. Still, when it comes to home goods, Wayfair operates in a competitive and fragmented landscape. While the company holds the top spot for largest online home goods retailer in the US, it's only by a small margin, very fragmented, very hard to have a competitive advantage. We think Wayfair is one of a number of competitors that are really struggling. To avoid discounting and reinvent themselves in different ways to remain relevant to consumers. Big box retailers like Walmart, Target, and IKEA all sell home goods with the added advantage of physical stores, tight logistics, and brand familiarity. Other high-end home goods companies like RH and Pottery Barn offer in-person shopping that build a more luxury customer experience. It's a lot easier to be top of mind when you are a pottery barn in a mall or a RH that has a freestanding store and a restaurant, and it's an experience, but we. moves into brick and mortar stores and AI are helping to close that gap. So one of the capabilities again of AI and also generative AI is our ability to understand, have a deeper understanding of the products that we sell, discerning the color, the size, dimensions. Some of it's in the product details, sometimes there may be errors and it can also augment and enrich the information. That we get from our suppliers, so we're doing a lot in the customer experience. I do think AI will help young people sort of get their head around how they want to plan their smaller spaces, but also, you know, the accessible price points that is that Wayfair offers also helps bring those consumers in, and I think that a lot of that is their their main consumer.

Media has undergone a monumental transformation over the past decade, with traditional business models disrupted, consumers migrating to new platforms and formats, and declining trust in mainstream outlets. In this new landscape, how do media companies—both legacy institutions and startups—turn a profit while also building loyal, cross-platform audiences who trust the accuracy of their output? A conversation about the future of journalism and media more broadly.

Media's Next Chapter: Building Trust and Navigating Disruption

Conferences

Good afternoon everyone. How's everybody doing here? Good Awake great. All right, here we go, um, so we have a lot of history on this stage actually somewhat of a cool thing about being a woman in business is there's a lot of firsts you can have whether you set out to have a historic career or not. Here we are. So Rashida was appointed as the first ever black woman to run a major cable news network in the United States. Um, Jomanna is the first woman CEO of a media organization here, and I got to be the first woman editor in chief of Fortune in 95 years, so incredible. So all of us have never really seen this media industry in the days of the martini lunches and the really thick magazines that sounded so glamorous. It's been nothing but change for the decades that we've been in it, and now is no different and perhaps we're facing the biggest change yet. So I'm curious though, as you look at the media org that you've run and are running from a global perspective, what do you see as the biggest challenges that we're up against and maybe Jamon, I'll start with you. Um, thank you, Alison. It's such a pleasure to be with you all here today sharing the stage with two remarkable women who are pioneers, um, um, in the media industry, very much paving the way for all of us and the younger generations to come. But I would say. You know, the way that we decided to look at it is that we're embracing challenges opportunity. Of course everyone's talking about the next big disruption, what's happening with AI and how it impact journalism in the media and monetization of our platforms, but ultimately I think fear will result in us losing um our positioning, our credibility, um, and the trust that people have very much put in us. um, we're very excited. About this next chapter, however, excitement means being prepared. Excitement only means that it could work if you have the right strategy in place. Ultimately, I also believe that we live in such a great, um, a time where everyone is digitally connected, so it makes that sort of content creation process easier. Um, we also are empowered by AI and technology that allows you to understand your audiences. Their preferences, what they want to read what they want to see, when they want to see it, but ultimately again it goes back to ensuring that you have the right strategy in place and the right upskilling and reskilling ongoing throughout the year to ensure that your journalists, your media practitioners are also capable to dealing with that challenge. And Rashita, what do you think? Is it, is it the First Amendment being challenged in the United States or is it this business crazy model that we're all trying to sort through? Yes. No, I think it's exactly, um, it's all of those things and, and, and, and I think similar to what uh Javana said in a world where there's a lot of challenge, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of change, there's a lot of uncertainty, uh, we don't have a playbook for how to navigate this kind of change, but we do know how the business has evolved we do know how the industry has evolved if you, if you take this. Moment in time and you're in the middle of the of the the storm and you see all the change happening around you it can be disorienting but I think as you look at the industry overall and look at the evolution over decades and decades and decades you'll see we've been resilient. I mean I I know um for many of you you cannot imagine a world imagine a time where we didn't have streaming. I'm old enough to remember that. Or a world where we didn't have the internet or a world where everyone didn't even have cable and we've been able to survive and evolve in those moments and I have no doubt that in this moment of time while it feels disruptive, the people who figure it out, which many of them are women because in the US at least most news organizations, television, digital whatever are run by women including Alison, um, the women are gonna figure it out and we'll be better for it. Who better right? we solve things. So what do viewers and readers want? It seems like it's getting ever more complicated. The viewing habits are changed. I know here in Reno we have a population that is significantly young, um, like 2/3 of the population we were talking about stage are under the age of 30, um, and I know in the US. The younger audiences are consuming media completely differently than the older generations, and that's something we think about at Fortune all the time. It's how do we cater to the legacy audience that we have and also bring up the next gen who want completely different things. So how are you seeing those viewership changes generationally and, and what are you doing to make it happen? I think we live in a in a world that has been dominated by the scroll um and that's what we're very quickly having to adapt to um attention spans have also become shorter, uh but ultimately that doesn't mean that the content that you create or the journalism that you produce has to be any less important and it doesn't mean that it loses. And it's editorial integrity. um, however, we do have to adapt to changing audience, uh, or, or consumer trends and behaviors and where they want to get that content. We believe that, you know, with the printing press, um, that was a major big disruption and then with social another disruption of course prior to that internet, no, I don't. But I do remember the days of the internet and that dial um and that changed everything for us um and then of course with social media and media companies or organizations saying how are we now going to compete with that platform, how are we going to compete with the likes of X and Snapchat and Instagram and now TikTok but what what we've realized is that if you embrace it and if you make it part of your core strategy, you no longer have to compete for with it. You are embracing it and becoming a part of it, um, I think ultimately. In the Middle East specifically, you have a population, the majority of it is under the age of 30. Therefore, a very young demographic that lives on the internet. They're digital natives. They want content that they can consume via their screens. They no longer want to watch something on demand or want to watch something that is pre-scheduled for them. You need to cater to them on the platforms that they use in the formats that they are now familiar to. I think we lived in a world 5 years ago where you. Content strategy was a one size fits all, um, where you did not repur you simply repurpose content that you were creating for TV or for social across the board that no longer works um you very much need to create native content for these specific platforms that your audiences want to engage with and you have the immediate analytics to tell you whether that's working or not and I think um as an example of that is the power shift and so we've seen the power shift from the content creators from the distributors. To the consumers and so your example, um, about young people consuming content on a lot of different platforms is now driving all of the strategies that news organizations across the world you know we heard leaders from TikTok up on this stage we heard leaders from Microsoft on this stage talking about how they're adapting their distribution tactics, uh, to address that and I think as content creators, as news organizations, as media organizations we have to make that adjustment or we or we're not gonna survive. And what about the crisis of trust that we're facing as an industry, um, you know, it seems like nobody, everybody has the alternative facts. Everybody's getting their information from they don't even know where they're seeing it on their fees, but they don't know the original source of it, if it's been vetted, if it's been checked, and. You would think that's an opportunity for us as journalists and media orgs and yet mainstream mainstream media is really being challenged about how we produce what we produce and how we know what we know so I'm wondering how you all think about this crisis of trust, what that opportunity is for journalists like us and also um what how we can be better at fixing that. You know, I think well it's both a crisis it's an opportunity and so I think because you're seeing a bunch of different um dynamics converge at once it's why it's been such a challenge. There is just the, the fact that there's so many different news or new sources out there that are not vetted. Some people don't even know you have to vet the source. Some people think, well, uh, it made it to TikTok but it must be real like there or there must be a kernel of truth to it. So there's the, the, the increase of. Of content coming in that's not necessarily sourced there is the concerted effort by some entities to convince the public not to trust us like there that is a business model for some entities in in some places and then there's also just the hard work that we have to do as content creators like news organizations have to continue to ensure that they're the content that they're putting out meets all of that criteria. I think we're seeing it at such a um a pace right now because all of those things are happening at once. My thought there and and this is how I, um, guided my newsrooms was we have to just do the work and it's every single day it's every single story it's every headline, it's every script it's every platform every single time and I think sometimes allowing the distraction of the narrative and the messaging get in the can get in the way of the work that you're doing but when you're consistently delivering again this is a moment in time when you look at the totality of the of the business and the and the the public service. that we've all committed to doing it's not gonna change that work it's not gonna change the need it's not gonna change the mission. You just have to be consistent. I do believe that this is one thing that you cannot compromise. This is one thing that you cannot say let's just simply leverage AI or let's, you know, it's on X, so let's report it. I think newsroom 101 is two sources. Do you have two sources, then yes, confirm it. You can go ahead with that with that piece of news, um, but I also, I also do sense that. A lot of social media users or generally your consumer and your population are now reverting to traditional sources of media to confirm that news, especially with this the widespread of misinformation and especially during um breaking news or or live events um everyone's going back to those mainstream traditional platforms. Uh, but ultimately I think you know what these new technologies and these new tools and social media, what it allows us to do is to become more efficient and quicker, but it doesn't mean that it compromises our editorial integrity and I do feel it's an opportunity for media organizations to reemphasize their important role on informing the wider public on the issues at hand. Yeah, I think so much of it is about continuing to educate about how great journalism happens and that it's not just made up or we're not making up sources. Um, one thing we've started including in our articles is like if we do we have a whole anonymous sourcing policy and we also need to say why we're allowing someone to be anonymous. Also, by the way, that fortune knows the identity of the person because that's not even clear sometimes. It's like if you say an anonymous source, a reader might think it's anonymous to fortune. We're like, no, no, no, we really know who we're talking about. We know and we do a lot of work to verify, which is, by the way, ever hard in the world of deep fakes and and videos can be manufactured and everything, so it's a wild time, um. What do you think about the business model of the future for journalism, and do you think that journalism alone can be a business model or does it need to be propped up by something else? Like if you look at Bloomberg, they are a terminal business that funds great journalism. Um, the New York Times, most people spend time looking about cooking and, and, uh, games, which are great things, but they're not the core, you know, news journalism. So do you need something to subsidize it or can it be, do we think the consumer will come back to paying? I don't think you can separate the business and the journalism part of of the organization, you know, you mentioned New York Times and and while they have a lot of different verticals, you also have the athletic which is profitable and it's a content business. So I think it's less about having something to prop up the journalism and more about finding ways to diversify the monetization of the content whether it's through subscription, whether it's it's through a. Advertising whether it's through a diversity of distribution I think the business model of tomorrow is not gonna be as dependent on any one thing you're gonna have the flexibility to bring new streams of revenue in using your content as your core. The core and in your value proposition is the IP of your brand and your business, and I think again that those who do it well know how to diversify that know how to monetize that. And know how to, I would also say be nimble and keep up with the changing times and follow the consumers where they are, where they're consuming content today and and we've talked about this today, um, it's all changing so quickly maybe a different place um where they're consuming tomorrow and I think those news organizations that can be nimble and finding ways not only to move to the new platforms but to monetize on those new platforms are the ones that will survive. I think what we're doing, especially at SRMG is that and then we're not reinventing the wheel here, but we're creating new sources of revenue, but ultimately the foundation is that content creation process that you have and that's why your audiences or your clients or advertisers are going to continue coming to you, but you do need to evolve and you do need to be nimble and agile enough to allow for a diversification of monetization across your platforms. We cannot again have. That one size fits all model and simply rely on archaic ways or traditional business models, um, we have, you know, at SRMG we've now created an events company that is very much an extension of our brands and why we've done it is that we simply did not want to to enter enter the events business which is highly lucrative and has high profit margins, but we wanted to leverage the strength of our brand equity. Um we have 30+ titles under the umbrella of the group. A lot of these types. Or have um loyal audiences and loyal readers but then why don't we create events such as um this event that we're sitting here right now so that you can turn that monologue into a dialogue, hence creating more opportunities for engagement, hence creating more opportunities for advertisement and subscriptions or simply a diversification of those uh revenue. We've also created FRMG Labs which is our in-house creative arm, allowing us to better cater to our advertisers and our clients. And provide them with that premium storytelling very much uh leveraging are the data that we gather via the number of people that are visiting our platforms and our websites. Therefore, now you're able to curate and tailor more that will result in higher monetization and higher profit margins and I think Rashida will agree with me, you know, it depends on the platform and it depends on the topic and it depends on um the business that you're running. There are ultimately more um. With lifestyle, it's a much higher profit margin than it is for example with news and that's why platforms such as the New York Times would have to go into a new product and that's exactly what we're all adopting. Those who fail to adopt are the ones who are not gonna be able to monetize. So I want to open it up for a question from the audience if there are any, if there are, raise your hand, otherwise I have a pile of more. Any questions? OK, um, good, and I get a hug all the time, um, so when you're looking ahead, what are the biggest trends that you're gonna be leaning into? I think along the way there have been a lot of distractions. Actually one of the things that's benefited Fortune the most is I think, um, we were so slow to digitalize, um, there was not even a website for Fortune until 2014 that we missed the whole run up on the attention economy where. Everything was about clicks and and kind of pulling people in um and not about the quality and so that is fundamentally helped us moving forward to get away from the the the mass scale approach of attention um so missing that trend was great um what are the trends here that you think are just buzz and what are the things that you think you're gonna lean into in the next few years of your media careers? I think we're very much leaning into AI. Um, I truly do believe that it's not just the future, it's currently the present. Um, I must say that when I joined the group of over 4 years ago now, um. SRMG has always been a pioneer and SRMG has always been a market disruptor. Uh, we've always had the first websites, the first, um, female only magazine, the first we've had so many firsts, yet when I joined, I did feel that we were way behind when it came to digital transformation and we've embarked on a, um, very detailed comprehensive digital transformation strategy at the time I think. didn't really understand what that transformation entailed. It's not simply about boosting uh viewership on your website. It's not simply about being more interconnected. It's about creating formats that are done in a digital first to cater to your digital audience, and that's what laid the foundations and the groundwork of the groundwork for where we are today of embracing and adopting AI. However, I do. I mean, I sit in meetings now and we're discussing the next big tool in AI and how we're gonna use this versus that, but that is relevant to us today. It could not be relevant not just a year from now, a week from now, um, but, uh, again embracing technology and digital transformation is something that we're most excited about and I think it's a trend that we need to lead and not be as scared of. I'm watching um I would say the race to next who will be the first major news organization to do something revolutionary with AI? Who will be the first to figure out a new monetization model? Who will be what, what entities will be next to converge their efforts and become a bigger, stronger version of themselves? I think, you know, we're in this, this disruptive period and and we'd like to throw that word around. Disruptive, right, but we're in a period where the business itself will look nothing like this in a few years. It will look nothing like this in a year even. And so one of the things I'm watching and it's been really interesting and I think really helpful to watch it from 30,000 ft is what we're we're all on the precipice of change what happens next? Who goes first and who drives it? Well, thank you ladies so much for your insights. Um, I'm looking forward to figuring out the future of media with you, um, and who better to do it with. So thank you very much.

Citizens Financial Group CEO Bruce Van Saun joins Leadership Next to discuss the bank’s evolution in an era of digital disruption and economic uncertainty. Van Saun shares insights on Citizens' fintech partnerships, its focus on affluent and rate-sensitive customers, and the expansion into private banking. He reflects on leading through financial crises, including the aftermath of 9/11, and the importance of balancing regulatory oversight with innovation. From AI integration to community investment, Van Saun reveals how Citizens is positioning itself as more than just a bank—but a trusted advisor for customers navigating life’s biggest financial moments. 

Navigating Banking’s Next Chapter: Citizens CEO on Growth and Leading Through Uncertainty

Photo Courtesy of Citizens Financial Group; Graphic by Fortune

Leadership

Bruce Van Saun on the future of regional banking, fintech partnerships, AI integration, and more.   

Bonnie Y Chan, Chief Executive Officer, Hong Kong Exchanges And Clearing Limited In Conversation With Clay Chandler, Fortune

Innovation Forum 2024: Hong Kong’s Next Chapter

Well, it is uh a real honor to have uh Bonnie Chen uh with us uh here this morning. Um Really delighted that you agree to make time for us. Bonnie uh Among her many uh distinctions is uh as, as Joe mentioned, the first female CEO uh of the uh Hong Kong uh exchange, I think that's worth applauding. Um And she's really uh extraordinary because she brings both legal knowledge and uh a breadth of knowledge as an operator of the actual exchange itself, the nuts and bolts, the technology, all of that, she's been deeply immersed in it at her role uh at the exchange to date. So um I want to start if I can just picking up on your, you know, being the first woman to run the exchange on this question of gender diversity uh at, at companies that trade on the exchange in Hong Kong. And I know this came up in the breakfast this morning, the most powerful women's breakfast. But since uh for the benefit of the men who weren't in that audience, I'd like to talk about that a little bit more. Now, there are something like 20,600 companies or so on the Hong Kong Exchange, as I understand it, about 500 of them. Tell me if my numbers are wrong are all male boards that the percentage of female directors on those companies is still somewhere around 16 17% compared to uh markets like uh you know, New York and London where it's over 30%. And even in Asia, I was reading that even Malaysia has a higher percentage than, than, than that, which is interesting. Um Can you, and you've been very actively involved in trying to uh bring Hong Kong up to global standards? And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that, why you think it's important and, and what you're doing to change it? Thank you Clay. Very happy to answer that question. So, first of all, I don't think I need to talk about the benefits of diversity. I think by now it's well understood, you know, by all the men and women in this room. So let's talk about our journey in terms of advocating uh and uh bringing more favorable conditions uh to allow a higher participation by women on the boards of companies listed on our exchange. So like you said, we have 2600 you know, plus companies uh on our exchange at the moment, the journey actually started many years ago uh in 2019. Uh that was the year when we first made it a requirement for all the listed companies on our exchange to have a board diversity policy because it's always about, you know, tone from the top, you need to the board to start thinking about the issue before changes uh can happen. Uh And we looked at it, um, we didn't like the results because it was, you know, to be honest, a little too slow. Uh, in 2020 when we review the number of uh female directors on our uh on, on the boards of all the listed company, the percentage was at 14.6 which is a low number compared to, you know, like you mentioned in a lot of other markets, we are talking already 30% and above. So we discuss internally what can we do right to make a real difference and really uh uh you know, uh turn it out. Uh And we took a very unusual step, I would say uh many markets have their own ways of doing it. Um We became the first international exchange to actually make it a mandatory requirement to end single gender boards. And that was a rule we introduced in 2022. Um and we put together a grace period. Uh which means by the end of this year, 2024 all listed companies on our exchange uh must not have a single gender board. Now, when we introduced that rule, uh the number was standing at around 808 100 companies still with a single gender board that was about a year ago. Um By now, the number is slightly below 500 still still 500 more to go. But we are, we are hopeful because uh the, the A GM season is coming up. So usually that's the time around uh April and May is when um listed companies appoint new directors to their board. So hopefully by the end of this A GMC, we're going to uh see all companies on our exchange uh being compliant with the requirement. Now, we still have to think about how to punish those who remain non compliant by the end of the year. But that's a different topic. So we, we, you know, happy with the progress which has been made. What we really want to accomplish is um I would say this is really just a catalyst. I think once um companies start bringing more diversity into their boards, they will begin to realize the benefits of doing so and once they have done it, uh they, the benefits, that's when regulation actually can take, you know, a step back and, and let you know companies and, and board directors um do their their own journey. You haven't made any decisions yet about whether there will be financial panel or, I mean, you're not thinking of king these companies off the, off the exchange or anything like that. Well, we, no, I I think for a start, there will be some naming and shaming, that's important. I also think investors have a role to play because, you know, we we now uh obviously we are in dialogue with a lot of the stewardship, you know, around the world and investment funds and all that and, and you know, in the investment policy, they are now very focused on uh indicators such as diversity, right, that will dictate how they want to deploy capital. So I think while, you know, we can impose a rule, um companies will very quickly realize that, you know, they, they, they have to get on to the journey. Hm. Um ju just one more question quickly on this. Um I've asked a lot of people who are on the boards of companies to trade on the exchange, you know, why, why are you not in compliance, what's going on? And I hear a variety of different explanations and I, you know, sometimes people say, oh, well, it's a cultural difference. You can't really, you know, compare us to London or, or New York. And then some people say, well, it's because state owned enterprises and that's a different, you know, kind of mode for appointing directors at, at, at state owned enterprises. And then the other one I hear which I find really just incredi incredible and infuriating is, oh, we can't find good talent right? There are not enough uh qualified women to be on boards. Oh, we tried so hard. We couldn't find one. Do you do any of those explanations? Make sense to you? Uh Not really. I think they just need to look harder. Right. In the case of Hkex, we are a listed company. Um, we have 13 members on the board and you know, among the 13 of them, five are women. I don't think there was any difficulty in terms of identifying qualified women uh, to be on the boat. And actually to this comment, I always remind people, it's not, it's not AAA one way, you know, thing, it's a two way thing, right? So while companies may think that, oh, you know, there are no, no qualified women uh to sit on my board, they need to also realize that the women, you know, who are looking for directorships, they also have a choice. I mean, they are doing their own due diligence, they want to only join boards that they think it's worthwhile their time to do it, right? So maybe when these companies express AAA, you know, a thought that they are having difficulty recruiting women, they should really uh maybe do some, some self reflection, well said, well said, um so let's talk about the, the exchange in the markets a little bit if we can. Uh and I wanna be the first to stipulate that uh you know, I recognize that just because you're the boss of the exchange now doesn't mean that you control macroeconomics or geopolitics and you can't really determine whether the markets go up or whether they go down. But you're coming in at a very tough time. What was already a big, big job? I mean, just looking at some of the numbers of the hans and, you know, the end of last year had a 13 year low. The stocks have plunged for four years straight. Hpkex profits down almost 30% last year. The share price down 18% and we can talk a little bit about the IP pipeline and the difficulties there. But it's uh I guess one way of looking at it is saying, you know, you're coming in at the bottom of the market. But is it, I don't know, tell us what you expect for 2024 in terms of market. Well, I won't be able to tell you whether we have or not, but I would say, I think you're absolutely correct. There are a lot of challenges in front of us, but at the same time, I see even more opportunities. Ok. So why do I say that now if we take a very short time horizon? Yes, indeed. The last few years have been very challenging uh capital markets, especially in this interest rate environment, um struggles and it's not, I mean, it's a global phenomena. Uh Hong Kong is no exception. However, if one were to take a longer term view, uh I, I really see a lot of opportunities because at the end of the day, obviously in Hong Kong and for HKX, uh we always take pride in the fact that we are super connector. And when we say being you know, a superconductor, what are we exactly connecting you go to the very basics of an exchange is connecting capital with opportunities. So whoever has the money with the, whoever needs the money, right? You match them. And in the case of Hkex, we are very uniquely positioned because we are also a superconductor between China and the world. And so um if you were to take a longer term horizon uh in assessing this um you know, situation, I personally feel that, you know, we're still seeing a lot of growth coming out of China. Um you know, the latest uh uh forecast from the two sessions is that 5% for this year, you know, for an economy, which is the second largest in the world, that's a huge number, that's a huge number. And what is, you know, if you think about this 5% it's about, I mean, you're talking about a lot of companies which are still, you know, growing, right? I was listening very carefully to the previous few panels, whether they are talking about A I or other types of innovation. You know, there are just so many exciting companies uh still trying to um you know, figure out new products come up with new inventions and this will be a very strong supply of issuers down the road on the investor side. Uh I would say that the world is still very underweight in China. So if you think about foreign investors holding in um the Asia market at the moment, it's only about less than 5% of total market cap. I mean, compare that with Japan, for example, which is the third largest economy in the world, foreign investor holding is above 30%. Ok. So you know, I'll leave you guys with a thought. Um whether you believe the, you know, global investors are going to continue to keep their investment in China and the allocation of capital at a below 5% or they're going to eventually see the potential, see the growth in China and increase the allocation. Let me ask you quickly about what's happening with IP OS again, you know, last year tough for IP OS uh about 70 IP OS in Hong Kong, but the kind of uh net funds raised something like $5.7 billion. That's way down from previous years. Uh You dropped to Hong Kong dropped to about uh I think it's the eighth or ninth in the sixth in the global League table. Uh uh down from, you know, number one as recently as 2019. Um So what's um and uh you know, a little bit discouraging that we saw San uh kind of bail out of its plans for an IP O A lot of companies that would like to go public. Don't feel like they can do it in this market. Uh Are we going to have a better year this year? Do you think in the IP O? OK. To answer that question, you know, let's think about why the IP O market has been um somewhat muted in the last couple of years. Um Obviously, macroeconomic conditions, uh geopolitics have something to do with it. Uh interest rate environment also played a part uh what we have seen and you mentioned the figures of 73 is the total number of IP OS that was completed in Hong Kong last year in 2023 compared to 90 in 2022. Now. So in terms of the number of IP OS, the drop is not not that significant. However, fundraise like you said, has dropped two thirds compared uh if you compare 2023 to 2022. And it's understandable because, you know, we all know that uh valuations have come down quite significantly and this is a global phenomenon. So when you talk to entrepreneurs, I think a lot of them are still very keen to do the IP O and provide that exit venue for the pre IP O investors. However, they just don't want to sell their stock cheaply, right? So what we saw last year was uh in a lot of cases, companies still going ahead with their listing, but you know, they try to do a smaller IP O and uh hope, you know, they, they're just waiting for the right conditions to arrive and then they can do the follow on offering. And in the case of Hong Kong is pretty simple, you just do an overnight block trade. Now, if we sort of look at it in a broader context, and you mentioned the fact that, you know, we have dropped a few notches, you know, in the um uh globalized po league tables, what we have seen in the last couple of years is also a phenomena whereby a lot of companies around the world, they have chosen to live in the domestic market. Now, I don't know whether this is because of nationalism maybe or uh COVID actually had a part to play because, you know, I mean, traveling wasn't that easy. So uh that's why the league table in the last two years, you see a few uh especially Asian exchanges emerging and taking the the top few spots. However, as these companies continue to grow, uh they may reach a point where they, they have a need to tap deeper markets. Um And they may actually find that their domestic markets may not be able to uh support their fundraising needs. And that's when they may look to other global exchanges to do their, their second listing or their dual primary listing. And that's why we're investing a lot of time and energy uh to plant the seeds. Um You've seen that we, over the last year or two, we've signed a lot of mo us with, you know, uh quite a number of exchanges both in Southeast Asia and the Middle East. Um We have open offices in uh London as well as New York. We already have a uh an office in Singapore and, and this is really to set the stage and we are actively talking to a lot of issuers around the world would believe when um market conditions are more favorable, we should be quite well positioned to capture them. You've had some success with that so far, Prada. Um The what for the yacht maker? Um uh to name a few, but you're looking for uh a, a much bigger contingent of, of uh non Chinese for firms to come in the list. Yes, absolutely. And, and uh I think the last wave of international companies which came to Hong Kong, a lot of them are brand name companies, consumer, consumer space. Uh What we're very focused on. Uh it's really attracting the new economy companies we have already over the last few years, uh made significant improvements in our listing regime so that pre revenue, pre profit companies like the biotech space and the specialist technology space can achieve a list listing in Hong Kong. Um We believe that and we have seen a proliferation of these companies around the world, right? And these will all make very, very interesting candidates down the road. Um you know, to, uh you know, as IP O candidates. So we're very, very focused on, um speaking to them. That's really uh fascinating. I we'll have to leave it there. But uh I wanna wish you every success as you begin this new endeavor. I know there are a lot of people in the city who feel that they have a, a vested interest in that success and are wishing you uh very well. So we'll see how the year of the dragon uh continues to unfold. But thank you so much, Bonnie Chan for uh joining us. Thank you.

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