WP Engine

Fortune partnered with Great Place to Work to analyze survey feedback representing nearly 95,000 U.S. employees.

GPTW Texas Small Medium 2024-WP Engine Inc.

Employees say:"WP Engine has the best company culture I have ever experienced. I am a firm believer that it comes from the top, and we have the most fantastic, transparent, and inspirational leadership and management team. I have found colleagues are always really responsive and willing to help and support."

75 Best Small and Medium Workplaces in Texas

Fortune partnered with Great Place to Work to analyze survey feedback representing nearly 100,000 U.S. employees.

GPTW Texas 2023-WP Engine, Inc.

Employees say: 
 
"I think the ERGs stand out, and giving people a safe place to express their thoughts is unique."

A key trait that shines through for company after company on this year's list is all-around fairness.

GPTW Texas Small Medium 2022-WP Engine

Employees say: 
 
“WP Engine is the only company I've ever worked for where company culture and the employee experience go hand-in-hand with our products, services, and the way we interface with customers. Both are high-level priorities that create an amazing environment where we feel inspired to go to work every day.” 
 
Read the Great Place to Work review .

This year's list of best workplaces in technology value people, not just as employees, but as humans.

Best Small Medium Workplaces in Technology 2020-WP Engine

Employees say: 
“The culture and forward thinking approaches really set WP Engine apart. Everyone encourages proactive thinking while allowing people to take risks and learn from any unwanted outcomes. A very open environment.” 
Read Great Place to Work review .

Best Small and Medium Workplaces in Technology

The companies on this year's list make a conscious effort to be supportive, inclusive workplaces.

WP Engine-Best Small Medium Workplaces for Women 2019

An employee says: 
 
“I am given every opportunity to grow and develop my career, both as it pertains to my current role and any future role I may want. Employees are given the space to learn, do things their own way, and find new and different ways of doing things.” 
 
Read the Great Place to Work review .

Best Small and Medium Workplaces for Women

These are the best workplaces in the U.S. that employ between 100 and 999 people.

WP Engine-Best Medium Workplaces 2019

Employees say: 
“The culture and forward thinking approaches really set WP Engine apart. Everyone encourages proactive thinking while allowing people to take risks and learn from any unwanted outcomes. A very open environment.”

100 Best Medium Workplaces

Best Medium Companies 2018-WP Engine

Employees say: 
 
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"Everyone is free to be who they truly are. We are so well taken care of that I dont waste my time stressing if im in traffic and may be late, or if Im sick and have to leave early. I'm always taken care of and always looked after." 
 
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Read the Great Place to Work review .

We surveyed tens of thousands of young employees to create this list of millennials’ favorite workplaces.

best-workplaces-millennials-2018-WP Engine

Employees say: 
 
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"WP Engine is the most rewarding job I’ve ever had. I am lucky to work with such talented people all focused on a common goal. I feel trusted, valued, and know my role at the company makes a difference for all of our customers." 
 
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"Our executive team honestly balances our people and our culture with the need to succeed in our business. They do not sacrifice people or culture for results, and it is extremely rare to see that lived from up high. Our CFO has said no to many money making initiatives because it wasn't in the best interest of our people or our customers — you just don't see that." 
 
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100 Best Large Workplaces for Millennials

Employees say: 
 
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"Culture cannot be delegated; WPE leadership understands this and embodies our values. As a result, they set the tone for the organization. One in a million companies does this well." 
 
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"This is one of the most diverse companies I’ve ever worked for. It’s unique to have a majority of female executives, and I’m proud to say this company is continuing to break barriers to ensure diversity is embraced." 
 
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Read the Great Place to Work review .

best workplaces for millennials 2017 Wpengine

Employees say: 
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"I feel like the diversity here is really strong, and celebrated. I think a primarily female leadership team is unique, and I love the mix of people across teams and how everyone just gets along and understands each other. I think this is not typically the norm in workplaces, especially in tech, and I love how everyone is valued, respected, and made to feel important. I really get that from our CEO too—she's just so articulate and empowering in the way she speaks to employees and continually drives and lives the values set forth by the company. This is the first time I've ever really believed in a company's mission, and known that (just as importantly) management believes in it too. This is the best I've felt in my career to date." 
 
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"The executive team is amazing. They're incredibly transparent, and they have a great idea of where they want the company to be in the future and how to get there. Every single person on the executive team is approachable and enjoyable to be around. The culture is awesome because everyone is nice, understanding, and driven to push the company forward." 
 
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What happens to the world’s largest media companies when the Big Tech spigot runs dry? As platforms tighten access and AI rewrites the rules of distribution, publishers face a seismic shift in how content is discovered. This conversation gathers leaders across technology, traditional publishing, and culture-defining entertainment media to examine how trusted brands can build influence, community, and lasting IP in a post-platform world where attention is fragmented and control is up for grabs.

Janice Min
Editor-in-Chief and CEO, Ankler Media 

Andrew Nusca
Editorial Director, Fortune Brainstorm 

Matthew Prince
Cofounder and CEO, Cloudflare 

Neil Vogel
Chief Executive Officer, People Inc. 

Bill Gross
Bill Gross, Founder, Idealab; Founder and CEO, ProRata.ai

Search Engine Zero: Who Controls the Future of Discovery

Conferences

Hosted by ROSHN Group  
Around the world, significant strides have been made to increase the number of women in corporate leadership positions. In the U.S., women make up 29% of C-Suite level roles and hold approximately 30% of board seats. And here in Saudi Arabia, nearly 10% of board positions are held by women, a new reality made possible by the Kingdom’s ambitious Vision 2030 strategy and other significant government-led reforms. Even with such progress, untapped opportunities remain in industries where women have traditionally been underrepresented – from construction and engineering to technology and energy. In this special lunch program, we’ll explore the strategies needed to advance women into C-suite positions, create more inclusive workplaces, foster untapped talent, and create a path to parity – not just progress – for women at all levels of business.
Panelists:
Dr. Maryam Ali Ficociello, Group Chief Governance Officer, Red Sea Global
Giovanna Carnevali,	 Executive Director, Master Planning, ROSHN Group
Dr. Saeeda Jaffar, Senior Vice President and Group Country Manager – GCC, Visa
Jena Ladhani, Chief Executive Officer, Global Workplace Solutions, KSA, CBRE
Renée McGowan, Chief Executive Officer, India, Middle East, and Africa, Marsh McLennan
Moderator: Michal Lev-Ram, Contributing Editor, Fortune

WOMEN’S LEADERSHIP LUNCH PROGRAM: ADVANCING WOMEN IN THE WORKPLACE

Cultivating a world-class workforce is key to advancing national competitiveness in today’s global landscape. How is Saudi Arabia expanding access and opportunity for women and young people? What bold strategies are being deployed to transform its education system into an engine of innovation and opportunity – and attract more visitors and business leaders to the Kingdom? We’ll hear from two of the most accomplished women in Saudi government about the tools, policies, and long-term vision required to unlock talent and balance rapid growth with cultural preservation and global perceptions. 

Vision in Action

Take a moment to point out the centerpiece medallion here which on stage it was designed and made by the design department at Eat University in Jeddah. So I want to recognize that's something I've found beautiful and transfixed the whole time I've been up here. So thank you for that. Our next conversation is one that's very close to my heart about how do you build a world class workforce to advance national competitiveness. I know that's been a priority here. In the kingdom it's something we think about all the time, of course, in the US and the rest of the world and how is Saudi Arabia meeting this moment expanding opportunities for women, but also for young people? It's something that came up earlier today with us to discuss this is Her Highness Princess Haifa bint Mohammed Al Saud, Vice Minister of Tourism for Saudi Arabia. I know her as somebody who's played an instrumental role in opening up this country to tourism. And also Her Excellency Professor Elna Elisa, the Vice Minister of Education for Saudi Arabia. So I'd like to invite my two distinguished guests to join me here on stage. Your Highness, Your Excellency, can I point out back in the green room, it was very clear to me you both know each other very well. Is that fair to say? How did you meet? I'll let you tell the story. If I tell it, I'll tell parts I'm not supposed to say, so I'm always on script. We met on the plane to Davos in 2020 just before you met on the plane you didn't meet in Riyadh, never met before on the plane and we didn't stop talking the whole trip through. OK, well that's, that's, that's a good. I love that. OK, let me start. Your highest, let's set the landscape right now as to where are we in terms of the progress that the kingdom has made. I know we're talking about workforce, but obviously more broadly as well in terms of opening up the kingdom and is the talent keeping up, but give us a sense of the landscape as you see it. I mean, absolutely, and thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me, and it's it's such an honor to be, to be here with all of you today. I can't tell you how exciting it is having Fortunes International Women's Summit in Riyadh, a concept that maybe 7 years ago people would have been like, What's that really a women's summit in Saudi Arabia. But yeah, today very, very proud that we're at the forefront of such things and very honored to be here with Her Excellency Dr. Inna Eissa. We are, we have become very good friends since then. Um, uh. I think if we want, we want to just take a step back and talk about the transformation that has that this kingdom has witnessed and we're still undergoing, I mean we're still today just at a milestone from Vision 2030. We've been through a lot. We can both tell you we've had so many sleepless nights, but it's all worth it when you when you're doing this. For your country when you're doing this for your people, for your children, um for your parents, people think that we're just doing it for the future generations. We're doing it for all generations, and we can see them taking part in it. Where we were before, I'll just give you an anecdote of what it looked like. My kids used to have friends from all over the world, and they used to always be invited to go visit them in their countries. And they'd always ask me the question, Why can't I invite my friends to see my country because I am very proud of who I am. We have so much to show the world, to tell the world. And look, this conversation started 6 years ago. Today when we look at where we are, we've had over our tourist numbers already. We've surpassed our 2030 target of 100 million visits. That includes domestic and international. Inbound last year alone, over 30 million people visited us from outside the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I mean, I was one of them, so. I love it. My kids invited their friends and so again, the story just from that lens and what we can do today and what we're able to do today at the participation in the workforce we talked about capabilities. We're talking about today women's participation in this sector, in the tourism sector has increased by 72% just since opening up our doors in 2019. So it's not just about. New frontiers and new sectors that are being opened, entertainment, sports, culture, none of this was there. I mean, uh, when, when I started I fenced and, and there was nothing for me to do in fencing. I could, I could never participate officially and properly. And today I, when I started working with the fencing Federation, there were no women. Today there are over 200 women in the fencing Federation alone, one of which is my daughter. So it's just to, it's just to tell you it's not just about tourism. Tourism is a platform. It's a platform in which we can open up our doors. We can get to share who we are and what we are with the world, and they get to see it because tourists, tourists are natural agents of good, so they travel to connect. To meet the like-minded, to share experiences. So today where we are versus where we were, we've made long, long strides. True, and you create a lot of brand ambassadors. I know you've done that here. A lot of people who are here for the first time seeing where you are and where you're going is very powerful. Let me move, Your Excellency. Give us your sense of the landscape from where you sit and the priorities. Where are we today in the kingdom with regard to Workforce development talent, etc. Thanks, Dan. Welcome everyone. I'm so happy and delighted to be here and um, on record, usually I have slides. I'm the academic at heart. I have numbers and I have pictures of real women and I, you know, I say I'm not going to participate without slides and they said, Yes, sure, we'll have your slides, but then just 2 minutes with Diane and Haifa, I was convinced just to sit here and tell a story. So thank you all a great storyteller, and I really enjoy being here and the energy I have with the, you know, with a room full of women reminds me of my job that I left two weeks ago where I worked in in women's only university, the largest women's university, Princess Noura Abdel Rahman, and if you really want to know more about Vision 2030, I advise you to go visit Noora because it's a clear manifestation of what we're living today. Uh, let me tell you something about prevision and post vision. So I've had my PhD since 2004. I'm a dinosaur in education, but I'm also a second generation PhD holder woman. Early education in Saudi Arabia for women started in 1951, early 1960s we started uh higher education for women, but there weren't really many milestones for women prior to 2016. Before 2016, we were OK and very happy to be doing half twice as much to achieve half to work half as hard to achieve half as much post 2016. the vision of course explicitly states the willingness to tap into the female potential and enable them to take a lead in the transformation of the country. So what happened since we launched, to be honest, I can't comprehend what we are living today. We surpassed, just like Princess Haifa has mentioned, we surpassed all expectations. So unemployment dropped from 35% to less than 30%. Employment rate increased to above 35%. In the ICT sector where women usually are misrepresented or underrepresented, the jump was from. 7 to 35% new sectors open open for women. Women in sport was nonexistent for before 2016. I had the picture of the first football team. Do you play on the we have a fencer. Well, I won't disclose this on stage, but just because my kids will penalize me for saying it out loud. But um, so yes, Hanan just mentioned about our first female astronaut going into a space mission. It's booming everywhere. The political willpower and the intention that we have to support us moving forward is really keeping the momentum. Before vision, we used to say focus breeds excellence. Post vision we say trust breeds trust in ourselves, in our teams, trust in our superior, trust in our government, trust in our future, and that's how we keep on. I love that. I think that's very powerful. And, and I think that that I mean I'd love to talk about this in this large workforce one of the places in the world where of course very young workforce you mentioned earlier the um perceptions of, of Saudi Arabia, people coming. How do you feel about that right now in terms of the perceptions of the kingdom and you mentioned attracting a lot of visitors? What would you like to change to attract even more? I mean, uh. First of all, the perception issue is real and it's live and it's still ongoing today and, and one of the first perceptions uh that that I've heard a lot, the misconceptions was that women can't. I think this room proves otherwise. I don't need to say much on that. My fellow panelists, the people who were here before me that spoke over the course of the past two days, we're clearly way beyond the concept of women can't, and women did in Saudi Arabia. It's not can they or can't they? They have, so again, women can't is still unfortunately a very real misconception that's happening abroad. Actually on that subject, specifically, many people were saying that, um, but you're trying to attract tourists, and I said yes. They said female tourists and I said yes, and they said, is it safe for a woman to travel on her own. Actually, Saudi Arabia, Medina specifically was ranked for 3 years in the row, the most safest city in the world for female travelers, for solo female travelers. How's New York? No, I'm kidding. That's where I'm from. Never mind, never mind. I could all that index. But but again, it's just to show you I've traveled alone. I've traveled with female friends. I mean, I'm not going to go and sell something that I haven't done myself. It's easy for me to come and say I'm selling this destination because I'm from this destination and it's who I am, but I've tested it all. I've traveled alone. I've traveled with my kids alone. I've traveled with. With female friends and I, I, I never faced any of the issues that I face in many other countries. So again, is it safe? I think it's the global indices that have nothing to do with me indicate that it's one of the most safest destinations. The second thing that people say is, yeah, but what months in the year should we come because, you know, you're all desert. And I'm like, well, we have a 1800 kilometer coastline that says otherwise, and it's on the Red Sea and it's preserved and it's untouched and it's sustainable and it's one of the only places remaining on Earth that has the most vibrant, colorful coral reefs that have been untouched. You're making me want to go to the Red Sea. Very good at your job. I love that. And now first we didn't have hardware to match that that natural offering. Today we have resorts in the Red Sea. Today we have airports in the Red Sea. Today we have so many different types of offerings in the Red Sea. So it's no longer a concept of activating. It's active, it's live, it's there, and I advise everyone to go and visit. And I think the third part was, sorry, on that part of you're just desert, we, I remember in 2019 I met with my European counterparts. And we were talking about the landscape of Saudi Arabia, and I said, you know, one day you're going to come skiing in Saudi Arabia, and they all laughed and here we are hosting the Olympic Winter World Cup in 2027. So again, this is the place you get things done. I sense to get, you know, I want to, I'm going to Your Excellency, talk about the workforce technology. One of the Things I definitely know about Saudi Arabia is that this is a place that very much is becoming a hub of innovation, technology, AI. There have been conversations of that being both a net good, of course, new tools and something that's disruptive, especially to young people in terms of that on-ramp to careers. What are, what are you seeing as the priorities to engage the workforce to give them the tools they need. To be that workforce of the future, especially having come from an educational institution into this role, of course legislation plays a great role, and I think the the previous panel have tackled that. But human capital development is quite relevant. Saudi Arabia has a very unique perspective, unique experience in the number of women in STEM education. The global average is 35%. In Saudi Arabia, we have over 570. 57% of enrollment in STEM are women. We have more graduates from ICT schools, females than males. So we have, we're also reaching not just only parity but also power. A lot of the 24% at the moment, leaders in the digital sector are females. Now these numbers speak for themselves. It tells you how organically this this force is developing. This unique experience in Saudi Arabia has led to the establishment of the first Apple Developer Academy in Saudi Arabia in the Middle East. It attracts 25 nationalities from around the world. We not only cater for our students locally, we have a platform called Studying KSA where we have. A number of academic offerings from short courses to prolonged programs, and we want to really invite students from all over the world and one of the best experiences I had in my career and I attribute this to Doctoral Latifa Freyan. We had a trip to England. We were visiting a number of universities, and she said, Newcastle, we should take our girls to play a game in Newcastle. And that's exactly what we did. Our soccer team from Noura University, they played the game in Newcastle together with the Vice Chancellor of Newcastle. We watched the game and then the Newcastle team came to Saudi Arabia and played the game. So that's, I won't say, OK, good point. You're very I think it's a very international talent pool here as well. I've seen for hospitality as well. Actually, I wanted to comment on that. There's a project that we worked on together. It's we, we basically created the Rial School for Travel and hospitality. It's going to be the largest, it is the largest school for travel and hospitality in the world, and we, we opened a temporary campus in Princess Noura University. And this is one of the projects that we worked very closely on together that was actually endorsed by international organizations and the campus is set to eventually move to Ga, which is going to be the largest entertainment city in the world, in order to talk. About the future types of talent that are going to be needed when you're talking about entertainment, sports, hospitality, travel, the future of aviation, what that looks like, and have real practices on ground. And this was actually one of the projects that we worked on and and. There was a very funny incident that happened. I don't know how much of that I can say, but I'm going to wing it and say a few minutes and 36 seconds. It's about how how politically correct it is to say, but I'm going to go ahead and say it anyway. So the incident that took place was um. We had a very se international figure that was coming to open up the the campus, the temporary campus, and it was myself and Her Excellency that were supposed to be there to greet her, obviously we were supposed to be there before, and what happened is that figure arrived early. I was there. He was there and I called her and I said, listen, and this is where please women supporting women is so important, please, please. I'm stuck in traffic. I called her. I said, Listen, he's almost there. I'm stuck in traffic. We all know what real traffic looks like. I'm stuck in traffic. Help, help me. Can you please go greet this this very senior international figure? She did. She winged it. She invited him for coffee. She took him around the campus, and it was like it was part of the design. So women supporting women. I love that. That's how things get done. I know we only have a minute left. I want to get. Each of you a chance, very few words. What milestone would you like to see us hit in 10 years? I'm going to start with you. You. You know, I want a global engagement with the entities working in Saudi Arabia on the ecosystem of women empowerment. We have, we monitor the progress through the National Observatory for Women. You're all invited to, you know, to collaborate. We assess the future of doing studies and research through Sara Suderi Center for Women's Studies. We celebrate women's success through an annual prize under the patronage of the king himself, Noura University. sorry, Princess Noura Prize for Women's excellence, and we develop talent and we support women and we build, we build networks to support women through the leadership center. So I urge everyone to connect with these entities and really have. I love that. And of course in about 35 seconds, what would you want to convey in terms of the milestone you'd like to see us hit? I just, you're all here. You're in Saudi Arabia. Please visit Saudi Arabia. Please go around. See, see what magazines are not going to tell you, what TV is not going to tell you, what media is not going to tell you. Meet a local. Wait, I'm the media here. No, I'm kidding. I'm going to tell everybody. Meet the locals. We're all here. I'm happy to be somebody's tour guide while you're here. I'm sure I'm volunteering you as Tribune. I'm sure is happy to be somebody's tour guide. Please, since you're here, just take the time, go around, see this beautiful, this beautiful, beautiful city, meet these beautiful people, and create your own impression. All right, I love that. Thank you, Your Highness, Your Excellency. Thank you so much. What a joy to talk to two people who get such joy from each other. You go off, I believe.

Sharon Price John has led Build-A-Bear to new heights—and her journey to the C-suite started serving people burgers at a Fortune 500 fast-food chain. 

How Build-A-Bear’s CEO engineered a multi-million dollar turnaround

Sharon Price John is the CEO of Build-A-Bear.

Features

Build-A-Bear's CEO helped bring the brand to new heights—Sharon Price John and her journey to the C-suite started as a teenager working at a local McDonald’s.

How Build-A-Bear’s CEO engineered a multi-million dollar turnaround


There's a lesson in there about how beneficial it is sometimes to not know your odds. When you don't know that your odds are ridiculously impossible, you believe in the possibility and with that very belief, you actually tip your odds in your own favor. Sometimes I You know, you have to look at the facts of the matter, but don't let facts overtake your dream. Somebody out there is going to get it done. Why not you? Hello, I'm Sharon Price John, the president and CEO of Build A Bear Workshop, and this is my secret to success. I grew up in a small town in Tennessee south of Nashville, about 7000 people. My dad worked for South Central Bell, AT&T, and then he eventually worked. NASA. He was in communications there at NASA, and my mom was a church secretary. I worked at McDonald's. I worked at a florist in my hometown. In college, I had some, you know, summer jobs as well as waitressing and random jobs like you do in a small town. I went to undergrad at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville, Tennessee. My first professional job was in a big furniture store as the head of marketing and merchandizing. I was Reporting to the president of this company, and it was a fascinating experience. So that was really fun and I then went to an ad agency in Knoxville after that at the University of Tennessee, the ad club had already been to New York during my senior year, and we visited some of the top 10 agencies, and I definitely wanted to go back and I put together a crazy plan that I was going to use my one week. Vacation, fly to Manhattan, set up all of these interviews. I had this vision that I could get a job at a top 10 ad agency in one week. This was my goal, and I set up 15 interviews, 3 per day in Manhattan. I thought that should be fine. I ended up with a 16th interview on that Friday, and they said, Well, we love you, you know, we. I think this is great. We'd like you to join our training program. We'll get back to you. And I'm like, why can't we just, why can't you just offer me the job right now? And she literally offered me the job right at that moment, and I got my job in a top 10 New York advertising agent, global agency in one week. So from the New York ad agency, I ended up working at another major agency where a gentleman on my on the client side, he recommended that I get my MBA and he. Talked me into applying to Columbia and it took a lot for me to convince myself that was a possible dream. I got in on the last of the last round and off I go to Columbia for my master's in business. I didn't want to do what most MBAs from Columbia do, which is venture capitalism or private equity or investment banking or management consulting, so I sought out brands and businesses that were really inspiring and. Special to me and so I initiated the interview and the opportunity with 5 different companies, one of which was Mattel, mostly because I loved Barbie. I did get the job at Mattel, but not without a few tries. I ran Barbie Fashions, which was awesome. Mattel was a fabulous experience, learned so much about brand, brand management, brand building, the toy industry. I also had gotten married in the meantime. And was about to have my first child. And so I left Mattel and my husband and I moved to Chicago and then went to work at VTech Toys. Then I ended up starting my own entrepreneurial company by buying another fashion doll. It was the number one selling fashion doll was in 1970s. My next large company was Hasbro. From Hasbro, I went to Stride Ri Children's Group. I was recruited there to be the president of the division of to turn around the retail. Business. It's a children's footwear company, and I had not had any experience doing that, but we turned that around, returned the company to profitability on both the wholesale and the retail side that in so many ways made me a pretty viable candidate for the CEO of Build A Bear because the founder, Maxine Clark was ready to retire at that point. I understood the toy industry, the sourcing industry, everything along those lines. It was a difficult turnaround. There was financially. Struggling, the company had lost $49 million the year before I got there. They had been working very hard to return the company to profitability after eight years of contraction by getting back to what they had done when they were so successful, but the world had changed in 2008, 2009, 2010 leading up to me coming in in 2013, and there really wasn't a going back. And I think that when I got there there was also A lot of fear that I would somehow sort of theoretically rip the heart out of a company that was full of so much heart to return to success. And so this was an interesting type of turnaround where I had to be extremely respectful as well as I should be as what had been accomplished and assure the organization that I believed that we could be successful while keeping the heart and the culture of build a bear and we laid out a strategy. that was about monetizing the extraordinary equity that was in this brand. The company literally had built something that started as a vertical retailer in malls for kids that almost didn't realize what a powerful emotional memorable experience, particularly that heart ceremony was, and that all of that equity was still just packed in this brand and I wanted to pivot the organization. And it start with the return to profitability before we started growing the revenue line which took multiple areas and bringing in new leadership, new organizational structure, a new IT infrastructure across the organization to be able to do this. We popped out with a great team and a great strategy, not just thriving but surviving, and we're now. I've had 3 years of record setting results. I think that I am most proud of the fact that the heart of Build A Bear still beats and that we have both believed and proven that you can be a company that adds a little more heart to life and be successful, and I think that the associates at Build A Bear were as surprised maybe the investment community, but there was a lot of you can't be an e-commerce company because you You're an experiential retailer. You can't, you, you'll never be able to appeal to an older consumer. Um, you know, this is a fad that, you know, build a bear is not, there's there's no place for build a bear in today's world. Malls are dying. Um, it's just pretty remarkable how many, uh, how many hurdles can get thrown in your way, and you have to hold fast to your vision and get a team that believes and. Um, and, and, and kind of plowing through that with, with good results is very satisfying.

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