Booking Holdings CEO Glenn Fogel wants to use AI to make it “easier for everybody to experience the world”

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Glenn Fogel: What we want is we want, well, our vision, this connected-trip vision, is we should be able to handle everything for you, but there’s got to be an easier way to do that. And that’s why we’re having conversations, as are, I’m sure, our competitors too. Everybody is trying to figure out what is the best way to use these new technologies to make it easier for everybody to experience the world, which, of course, is our mission: making it easier for everybody to experience the world. And gen AI absolutely is going to do it.

Diane Brady: Hi everyone. Welcome to LeadershipNext, the podcast about the people…

Kristin Stoller: … and trends…

Brady: …that are shaping the future of business. I’m Diane Brady.

Stoller: And I’m Kristin Stoller.

Brady: This week, we are speaking with Glenn Fogel of Booking Holdings.

Stoller: Booking Holdings! I’m so excited to talk with Glenn because I just got back from a trip from Japan, and I’m all about the travel industry now, and I—my funny story for you, Diane, is I, actually, I was so stressed about the trip, I used ChatGPT to to do my entire itinerary for me.

Brady: Was it good?

Stoller: It was really good. It had the perfect itinerary, perfect amount of days in each, but it reminded me of Glenn because he came in, sat with us and the Fortune editors in November, and was talking about how he wants to turn his company, kind of into the AI travel agent—is that the future? Are we no longer going to have to book our own trip?

Brady: Disrupt or be disrupted?

Stoller: Yeah.

Brady: I used to cover travel, aviation, arts, and leisure for the Asia Pacific region…

Stoller: Ooh, tell me more.

Brady: …when I was with the Wall Street Journal. And these are issues that people have been dealing with for a long time, which is, who needs a travel agent or a booking site when you can go direct? But what’s fascinating to me about Booking Holdings is: They have created a brand in themselves. They’ve created loyalty programs, and in a way, they both partner with the hotels, the airlines. They also, of course, are competitors, and as we get ChatGPT and some of these other forces, they’re trying to also change the relationship they have with the consumer. So there’s lots to talk about.

Stoller: There is and I think, you know, it’s also interesting that they own OpenTable, which, here in New York, the Resy versus OpenTable debate is, is hot.

Brady: Which do you use?

Stoller: Okay, I used to use Resy. I used to be all about Resy. And now OpenTable. I think I’m able to get more because all these bots are trying to take up reservations. What do you use?

Brady: OpenTable.

Stoller: Okay, wow.

Brady: For the points, I’m a loyalty person.

Stoller: The points are good.

Brady: Everybody knows I’m very good at loyalty. Well, lots to talk about. Glenn is always very thoughtful. We’ve both spoken to him in the past, and I think listeners are in for a treat.

Stoller: Yeah, he’s very, very candid. When he was here with the Fortune editors, I asked him, I said, “What made you want to catapult yourself to be CEO of a company?” And he was super candid and said, “Well, you know, I wouldn’t be CEO if the former CEO wasn’t fired.” And he became it in 2017 so it was…

Brady: Doesn’t matter how you got here, it’s what you do when you get through the door, right?

Stoller: Exactly.

Brady: Well, we’ll be right back with Glenn after the break.

Brady: We’re seeing an erosion of trust in institutions, which is being made worse amid the rise of AI and polarization. And yet, trust in business remains relatively strong. We spoke with Jason Girzadas, the CEO of Deloitte U.S., which is the longtime sponsor of this podcast. Here’s what he had to say:

Jason Girzadas: Trust is a function of businesses meeting their stakeholders’ expectations and creating value. And that’s true for customers, that’s true for the workforce, that’s true for society at large. And I think given the challenges that other key pillars of the economy and society have faced in terms of trust, businesses have an opportunity to actually rise above that set of concerns and forge new levels of trust with all their stakeholders. This is an opportunity for businesses to really lead around trust, creating experiences that are reliable and resilient, as well as fulfilling their expectations to those stakeholders. And over time, I think trust will be a function of—are businesses actually meeting the human needs that are resident, whether it’s around health and well-being, or contributing to the environment, or to worker satisfaction and engagement.

Brady: So Glenn, since we’re talking about travel, it’s so important in my life. You just came back from a big trip…

Stoller: Yep, a big trip to Japan. I was very excited, but very jet-lagged right now, so give me grace.

Brady: I’m curious, was there a trip in your life early on that you think was formative for you? There was for me, so I’m just curious, what was the first big trip you took on your own that changed you?

Fogel: Absolutely, so, I was not on a plane until, I think, maybe third grade, and maybe, I don’t know, four or five plane trips before I went to college, but after my sophomore year in college, I went to study in Santander in Spain in the summer. And I was like, wow, this is cool. And then what I did is the next winter at Penn, they had a six-week interbreak, and I went and studied in the Soviet Union.

Brady: Oh!

Fogel: And that was pretty cool.

Brady: When it was the Soviet Union?

Fogel: When it was the Soviet Union, exactly. And then came—and then that next summer, a best friend of mine, we went, instead of getting jobs that summer, it was our junior year, we went off to Europe, just with, you know, rail pass. It was great.

Stoller: I did that too, back in college.

Fogel: Exactly, exactly, and that’s just wonderful. And then after my first year of law school, instead of going—everyone else gets a job; I went off to Asia for three months on my own. I just got a one-way ticket…

Brady: Travel buff.

Brady: That was pre–Tiananmen Square.

Fogel: Oh, yeah, ’89 was Tiananmen Square, right? And I was also in what now, of course, is Myanmar. It was not Myanmar back then. And I was just wild—I was up in Bagan at the temples. And I just ever since, like, travel is cool, I’m doing it.

Brady: I always think of that Mame quote, life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving. I mean, I feel like travel is both: It’s a delight for people, but it’s also a source of fear. And one of the things we were talking about before the show is: What do you think the state, the mindset is right now around travel? I mean, is it a scarier time for people to travel? Is there more demand? I’m thinking most right now, from an American point of view. Obviously there’s burgeoning demand in China and other places.

Stoller: Google Translate did my entire trip in Japan, by the way.

Fogel: There was no Google. There was nothing, I went off on my own. My folks said, “Enjoy, hope it works out okay for you, hope we see you back.” And that was it. And, yeah, I remember from my Asia trip I mentioned, I remember once in Singapore, saying “Ah, this is cool. I can definitely make a phone call from here.” It was like, you know, one phone call I made over three months. “Hey, how’s everybody going back there?” Yeah they’d get postcards every so often, but I wouldn’t get anything from them, of course. Now you have all these ways to have instant communication, instant translation, Google Maps, no problem where to go. And I would like say places like Booking.com, that can help you find a great accommodation, anywhere in…

Stoller: There you go…

Fogel: I got the plug-in. And the thing is, back then, you know, “where are you gonna stay.” “I don’t know. We’ll figure it out.” You talk to other people, and it’s—why would people be scared now, with all that information?

Stoller: Are there any places you wouldn’t travel today?

Fogel: Yeah, there are a lot of places I wouldn’t travel today.

Brady: Yeah, like North Korea.

Stoller: Yeah. Well, I was telling Diane, when you were last here in November, you were telling me about all the AI agents and what you’re trying to do. And it inspired me, because for my Japan trip, I plugged in to ChatGPT: “Make me an itinerary for Japan.” And you totally inspired me, but I want you to tell Diane a little bit more about what you’re doing.

Fogel: I am incredibly disappointed right now.

Fogel: I inspire you to use the Booking.com AI trip planner.

Stoller: Well tell me how it works, maybe next time I will.

Fogel: If you’d just gone to the Booking.com app it’s right on the front.

Fogel: Thank you.

Brady: OpenTable.

Fogel: Sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much on that too. And of course, we mentioned Booking.com already, and Kayak you mentioned. And we also have things like Rentalcars.com, but that is now part of Booking.com; the big ones really are: You have OpenTable for restaurants. You have Booking.com, you got Priceline you got to go to for normal travel reservations, et cetera. You got your Kayak for a meta search. That’s kind of the core of the business. We have a lot of other ones too. We have you covered, no matter which way you want to do it. And I cannot tell you how disappointed I am…

Fogel: …but I hope you at least booked with us.

Fogel: Okay, that’s good, okay, because that’s actually better, because where we actually get paid is the booking, not…

Fogel: Right, and that will happen, we believe, at some point, which, of course, we are having these conversations with everybody in the Valley, throughout the world, actually, in terms of how we work together. Because what you wouldn’t have happen is, you go and use a large language model to plan it out, and then what? Now are you going to go to each one of those individual suggestions they gave you? Are you going to go to each direct site, or you can clunk over to us, but there’s got to be an easier way to do that, and that’s why we’re having conversations, as are, I’m sure, our competitors too. Everybody’s trying to figure out what is the best way to use these new technologies to make it easier for everybody to experience the world, which, of course, is our mission, making it easier for everybody to experience the world. And gen AI absolutely is going to do it.

Stoller: Walk me through a scenario, then, of what I could have done with you, or on your site, or a futuristic one that you want to get to.

Fogel: What you could have done is either, let’s go with Booking.com for the heck of it. You could have gone to our AI trip planner on the thing and just typed in “I’m thinking of going to Japan. Not sure yet. These are the dates I’m thinking of going, and I’m not really sure where I want to go yet, but…” Here’s a but.  And you could have had an interactive conversation going back and forth. And eventually, eventually it would have come up with property suggested to you based on you, based on all the things we were just talking about. And then, with the properties right there, you could just click on the one you liked, and it would have gone straight into the booking process, and we could have had it all done like that. Instead, what you did is you had that whole list. Now, what did you do with that list from ChatGPT? Did you just save it and then you’re going back and forth, and then you’re going back, forth, or maybe a copy and paste, and then you put in something else?

Fogel: Not as easy, no. But what we want is we want, well, our vision, this connected-trip vision, is we should be able to handle everything for you, so that from start to finish, from beginning to plan it out, till the time you actually book, to then actually going and doing it, and then when you’re there experiencing it, and then coming back and, God forbid anything goes wrong, anything at all, we want to be sure that we’re there to fix it. But even more, is, I want to be fixing problems before they happen. I want it as if you are walking around with a human travel agent in your pocket. What you have instead is your phone, and you have the app, and that app is aware. It knows everything about you that you want it to know about. It knows where you are, knows what you’re doing. So, for example, let’s say instead of Japan, you’re going to, say, Amsterdam, okay? And you’ve booked, because most people do, you want to have a boat ride, a canal ride. It’s a very nice thing to see. And book that and that’s done. And we did, you did, we did it with you and got it for you Thursday. But you also like museums, so you can go to the Rijksmuseum. You got that one on Friday. On Tuesday, we let you know, “We noticed that Thursday is supposed to rain. Friday is going to be a beautiful day. Why don’t we change your boat ticket and your museum ticket, and we’ll swap them.”

Brady: So it’s proactive. Will it know us enough to know that I went for a psilocybin trip, and she’s in museums. You want it to almost know your personality enough to predict…

Fogel: You wanted the way it was, you know you and I…

Fogel: We’re young people.

Fogel: But we’re old enough to remember a human travel agent. And that human travel agent knew a lot about you. She kind of knew what you could afford. She kind of knew what you liked in general, and she suggests things for you. That’s what we want, that personalization, that’s what we want to do. And we can do it. We will do it. And the more you work with our services, the more we know about you.

Fogel: Isn’t that interesting? Again, how we classify people. We start off with…

Brady: Geographic is one way, women…

Fogel: …and then we do gender, income, or ethnicity, unfortunately, all sorts of things, right? The way we like to classify, and certainly our marketers do that too, with cohorts that you try and match up with: “young person.” So those are things. There are some things that are, you do see some similarities, and that is how we market to different groups and such. But what we really want to do is become one-to-one marketing, really treat people as individuals, not as part of a large class. So that’s the great thing about the way we use data nowadays, and the way we now have the compute power to do that. And that’s really what I want. I don’t want to be offered the same thing everybody else who’s similar, you know, who’s my age and my…I want something that’s actually to me.

Fogel: Well, I think the revenge travel is done. They say, you know, it’s best served cold. Well, I think it’s past cold, right, to the freezer, it’s done.

Brady: Okay.

Fogel: I think now it is really a question of how people are feeling about their income, the expectations of their future possibilities. But one thing I think people will not give up is that desire to travel because they couldn’t. And people may have just taken advantage that “I could always go somewhere.” And now it’s kind of like, “Wait a minute. No, let’s go, because we don’t know what’s going to happen next.” So that’s helped countering that.

Fogel: There could be an economic problem. Who knows?

Fogel: So, it’s very difficult to do that, and you can do your scenario planning, et cetera. And unfortunately, you may have already been through that situation before which we had been. So, SARS I came out in the early part of the turn of the century, and we, of course, had business in Asia, so we are well familiar with what could happen. Then, of course, SARS II, COVID comes out, well 15, 17 years later or so, and that all of a sudden, like, uh-oh. Now, the question, though, is because you know what could happen, but you don’t know–is it going to end as quickly as COVID I did, or is it going to be much worse? And that thing you really can’t, you know, you’re making as good a guess as anybody else’s. So you try and react, you try and be agile and adapt and make your changes as events are happening. Same thing with a war. Russia invaded Ukraine right after we did our earnings call, and we’re giving out what we believe was going to happen in the upcoming quarter. Of course, it did not happen like that at all. We were the biggest player in Russia before we pulled out. So there’s a lot you really can’t plan for in the near term. But what I know for the long term, and that makes life a lot easier, is travel is always going to go faster than GDP is going to grow. That’s just the nature over decade after decade because people want to do it, one. Two, because the shift from offline buying of things or services, like travel, to buying things digitally, online—we have that as a tailwind, which is nice. Then I think, well, we have good people. We’re smart, we’re coming with better ways to do things. So if we improve a service, we’re going to be able to get people to come to our service versus another service. So we’ll get share shift. So I have three ways that I know, with a high level of certainty, that we’ll do okay over the next decade or so. But when an analyst comes up to me and says to me, “So, what are you thinking about this year? How are we going to do?” I’m like, “I don’t know.”

Fogel: Airbnb was not banned; what was banned was short-term rentals. Because this is really important. So, a lot of people in America, as opposed to other parts like Europe, a lot of people in America don’t realize how big our alternative accommodations is…

Stoller: I didn’t until you told me, yeah.

Fogel: Right, the fact is that our home or alternative combinations, where our room nights, the number done in the year, are about two-thirds, a little more than two-thirds of Airbnb’s entire business, where over the last 15 quarters, that area has grown faster than their business 14 of the last 15 quarters. That’s pretty good. But it’s interesting, you went for Airbnb, because in your mindset…

Fogel: But your mind was set that that’s something that we need to work on. We need to get the awareness up so that, when that question or something like it comes up, people don’t say Airbnb. They say a home or apartment or something.

Stoller: What’s your plan? How do you want to overcome that?

Fogel: Well, the first thing we’re working on right now is, make sure that our product is absolutely as good as anybody else’s. So, before I’m willing to spend a huge amount of marketing to increase that awareness, I want to make sure the product is really up to where the level I want it to be. It’s a good product. But there are some areas I know we can make some improvements. And it’s not just on the traveler side. See, we have two customers. We got the traveler, but we also have the people who are supplying us with the service, whether it be somebody who’s renting out their home or it’s a hotel or an airline. That’s also a customer for us. And we do not have that side as well as I’d like it to be, especially in the area of alternative accommodations. There’s things we can improve on.

Fogel: Well, things are changing. For example, something that we’re changing right now is that, if you have a home and you’re renting on our platform, we weren’t giving people their payment the same day that somebody was showing up. They’d have to wait a little while to get their money from us. That wasn’t very good. That wasn’t very nice the way, just the way the payments were working. That wasn’t good. You know, for some time we weren’t offering insurance the way some of our competitors were. That was a mistake, exactly. So I can come up with a whole bunch of things. We approved a lot of those but there’s still more to be done. I won’t be giving away the playbook, though.

Brady: And since we’re talking about leadership, you mentioned law school. You were a banker at Morgan Stanley. What was it that got you intrigued by the travel industry? Think you started in business development, is that right?

Brady: You did law school.

Fogel: But I was never a lawyer, though, just in case they start, you know Shakespeare, they start shooting the lawyer, right? But I ended up as a trader in Morgan Stanley, working for a guy named Barton Biggs. And for me, it wasn’t just that…

Brady: Oh, maximum bullish on China Barton Biggs…

Brady: Hope you kept that early stock, then.

Fogel: Actually, interesting enough, though, the options I actually got when I joined, those actually never got back. They were never, they vested, they never got the money. They were 10-year options. They never got the money.

Brady: Well, that’s the beauty of the dotcom bust, I guess. But one of the lessons of Priceline to me, I remember when they got into bid-your-own-groceries, and I got the idea, you know, I don’t feel like bidding for yogurt. What did you take from that? Because you’ve got a lot of different properties. Did it ever give you pause to think, should we go into that?

Brady: It was Jay Walker, who’s a nutty guy in a good way.

Brady: He’s an eclectic thinker and a visionary.

Brady: And what hotel you’ll be at?

Fogel: Well, the hotel, I agree, but…

Brady: …not always…

Stoller: Diane brings up a good point. You have so many brands. Talk to us a bit about your acquisition strategy. How do you decide, you know, oh, I’m gonna get OpenTable. Where do you wanna go next? What’s next for you?

Fogel: So what’s so interesting about that is that somebody said once “So you basically built the company through, you know, M&A.” I’m saying, well, sort of, but when you think about it. So, we bought active hotels in 2004 for $165 million, and we bought Booking within less than a year in 2005, and that was $135 [million]. So $300 million. And that was 20 years ago, and that company is now worth about 90% of the entire $160 billion market cap. So during that 20 years, it wasn’t M&A, we bought a company that had a few hundred people, that was losing money. It’s kind of like, you really can’t say, “Well, you built the company through M&A.”

Brady: We’re giving you credit where it’s due.

Brady: You are a big company, to your point. Where is the growth opportunity right now? I mean, not just parts of the world, but you know, given where you’re sitting right now, feels in some areas saturated. Some areas are nascent. What excites you?

Brady: No, they’re not eating at home.

Brady: You have sort of a frenemy relationship, let’s take Marriott and American Airlines, they both try to incentivize me to go direct to their site because they don’t want to pay any fees to the Bookings of the world.

Fogel: I understand it.

Brady: Obviously, that relationship—is it always going to have that push-pull, or do you see it changing?

Brady: I could if I’m Marriott.

Fogel: But Marriott’s one little cog, and by the way, we do things with Anthony, the CEO of Marriott, we do things for him. Is he gonna be marketing in Pakistan? I don’t think so. By the way, payments is a really important thing too. See, again, and this is so interesting because you have a global audience. So a lot of people are talking to us. They nod their heads, “of course,” and I’m not knocking America, I’m just saying that a lot…

Brady: We don’t get out much…

Stoller: We should get out more.

Brady: Right.

Brady: I didn’t know that; that’s interesting.

Fogel: Well, there’s so many things. And then it’s like, pay in your own currency. So the person says, “Look, I don’t want I don’t want to worry about FX exchange. I want to pay in my own currency.” There’s so many ways to do so many things. And again, it’s people not really knowing all the complications of this business.

Stoller: That makes sense. Now I’m going to take us a little bit off the rails, so bear with me. But I’m curious. So you talked about the future of your company. You started with hotels; you went to flights. Is there a future in which you would ever go into space travel, and how far away are we?

Stoller: Really? Okay, well, they’re thinking like me. And Elon Musk.

Fogel: You can do anything you want, but you can’t do everything you want right away. I don’t see space travel being a business for us…

Stoller: We’re not there yet…

Brady: …you don’t need the seven people going to space in the next year. I think, in the term busman’s holiday, which usually evokes that the busman does not want to ride a bus on their time off. Do you like to travel on your time off, how do you relax? And what does your perfect day look like when you’re not working, which I know probably doesn’t exist?

Stoller: I’m dying to go there…

Stoller: And did you check a bag? Because you told me you never…

Fogel: No, of course not, not.

Stoller: Still for Galapagos?

Stoller: What are your other travel hacks for us?

Fogel: Well, that’s the most important one. Never check a bag, ever.

Brady: I don’t check a bag.

Stoller: I bring too many clothes. But you have to shop when you’re there.

Brady: Okay, besides that, besides that, but yes, for sure, I do think there’s something to be said for also planning in advance.

Brady: I almost feel something’s missing by not having that experience of being able to call once a month from the post office or whatever, that we’re so connected.

Fogel: I think you’re right on that. And it’s probably a change to just the way we, nowadays, because of our phone, because of how we feel, our brains have changed. So many people tell me that they can’t do long-form reading right now. They just say they put down a book. They just can’t keep going at it. Now, perhaps the plasticity of our brains has changed because we keep looking for those short, short hits of dopamine from the phone. I myself, I’m still into just being spontaneous.

Stoller: So for those who want to be spontaneous, what is the strangest accommodation you have on your site? Is it a castle? Is it a treehouse?

Brady: There’s got to be an igloo in there somewhere.

Fogel: I’m sure we must have an igloo somewhere, and we must have yurts.

Stoller: Would love a yurt trip.

Brady: You know, you do have an eclectic background, and I’m curious when you—well, let’s start with just a classic question. If you were to look back on your own career track: Obviously, you’re in a good place now, but would you have done anything differently to get where you are? Anything you could have removed some friction along the way, or learn something sooner?

Brady: Philosophical, yeah.

Brady: Well, maybe it’s more advice then isn’t it for people because there’s so much stress right now, there’s such a—again, I don’t want to get nostalgic. I was stressed starting my career. I’m sure you were too. It doesn’t mean people are less ambitious. But do you have advice for those who are listening who want to get to the corner office, who think that there’s a linear path?

Fogel: Okay, a couple things on that.

Brady: Yeah you can unpack it however you want. You’re the travel guy.

Stoller: That’s good advice, number one.

Fogel: The second thing is, and I’m not sure who said it first, but a lot of people have, but working hard will get you far, and that alone can really be a lot of the difference. I know I’m not the smartest guy by far in a lot of groups, in most, almost all groups I’m surprised there are people that are smarter than me at a lot of things, but I do feel I’m one of the people who work hard among others, and having self-discipline is a real good trait to have if that’s what you want. So I’d say before you actually go on that route, though, make sure you understand why you want it. Really understand what’s driving you. For whatever you want, and whatever it is, just be conscious. Understand what is going to make you happy and what you want to be when you grow up. Because too many people I know, too many people I know, they kind of drifted through it. And even very successful people, they drifted into their success, and then they were our age.

Brady: Why do you want it?

Brady: Okay, then what is your purpose? Maybe it’s purpose? What drives you?

Stoller: Do you regret it? Or are you happy you made that decision?

Brady: Increasingly so. I want to mention something that, I certainly think you’re somebody who leads with your heart. I found you to be very open and philosophical about leadership. One thing I’m curious about right now, when you look at the state of leadership, not just business, political, or otherwise: We don’t seem to be living in a time of open arms. Does that concern you? How does, how do we get past this vilification of the other, as opposed to wanting to find out and travel to see them?

Fogel: So it is pretty global. This is not something that is any one particular country. You see a lot of people pulling inward, a spirit of nationalism, tribalism. You do see a lot of that happening, and sometimes trying to say, well, why or what is driving that? Et cetera. But I’ll stay away from that era which is such a sensitive topic at this moment. But I’ll think about something else, which is on my mind now. So, right now, everything in the world seems to be in flux, so many things, particularly in business and because of all these technological changes, everybody’s having to make changes. Adapt. I mentioned it. Agile. That means reallocating resources. Reallocating resources is a really nice way to say that we’re going to have to make some changes in our workforce, which is another nice way to say that you’re going to let some people go. And we made an announcement at the end of last year where we talked about, we’re going to be doing a restructuring, we’re going to let people go. And you think about it, they didn’t do anything wrong, but the world’s changed. And so when you let people go, you try and do it in a way… It’s necessary. We live in a market, capitalist world, and you must do this. It’s better for the whole, our society is made better by this, it’s Adam Smith, this competitiveness. It’s all good, but you still want to treat people well, particularly when it wasn’t their fault, per se. They didn’t do something wrong. And so when you do that, make sure that you treat people with respect, treat them well, and certainly never show—never be happy, never show glee at how much you did in cutting people. And I see that sometimes now, but I wonder, have they ever been fired?

Stoller: That’s a good way to phrase it. Well, Glenn, I want to wrap up here with some forward-looking thoughts. So, what excites you? What’s next for you, and anything we didn’t ask that you want to share with us?

Stoller: That’s my dream.

Fogel: Isn’t it, though, isn’t it? We’re gonna have that absolutely and be able to really show you what you want and choose that. That’s all wonderful, but let’s talk about what tech is really going to do for us. Think about the improvements in medicine that are going to be done. Think about the fact that nobody is ever in the future, at some point, going to end up with some doctor coming up [and saying], “I’m sorry, we missed that in your mammogram last time,” because the AI will have detected it, and there’s so many other things. Protein folding—the opportunities are so great now, it’s just gonna be wonderful. Now, I understand people say, yes, but what about the threats? Because, yes, technology can also be a threat. Let’s face it, the first cave person, you know, discovered like, “Oh, I got this club. This is really good. I can club this animal. We can have a great meal. Or I can club that guy and take his wife.” The club is…

Stoller: …love the creativity here…

Brady: I’m an optimist.

Brady: If I live to 150, all the more countries I can see.

Brady: Let’s travel. Thanks for joining us.

Stoller: Thank you, Glenn.

Fogel: Thank you so much for having me.

Stoller: Our executive producer is Adam Banicki.

Brady: Our producers are Mason Cohn and Ceylan Ersoy.

Stoller: Our theme is by Jason Snell.

Stoller: Leadership Next is a production of Fortune Media.

Stoller: And I’m Kristin Stoller.

Leadership Next episodes are produced by Fortune‘s editorial team. The views and opinions expressed by podcast speakers and guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of Deloitte or its personnel. Nor does Deloitte advocate or endorse any individuals or entities featured on the episodes.