When you think of money, how does it make you feel?
If you’re like many Americans who feel a sense of dread when considering their personal finances, it might be time to get a budget. At least that’s how Jesse Mecham, founder of YNAB—one of the most popular budgeting platforms on the Apple app store—feels about money.
But for the millions of dedicated YNAB users, the app’s intuitive budget process is working pretty well—and it all starts with entirely rethinking how you view money. I sat down with Mecham to talk about his views on budgeting and how they might just change your life.
“We just transform people’s relationship with that precious thing we call money,” Mecham tells Fortune. “We make it where money is an extension of the person.”
Mecham says money should be viewed as self-care, and a representation of one’s blood, sweat, and tears—and more. The YNAB method is centered around giving every dollar a job; something the company describes as “spendfulness.” For those new to the app, YNAB is an acronym for You Need A Budget.
You might think that the people with the most money worries are low-income individuals, but that’s not necessarily the case. In fact, a growing number of households earning over $150,000 are among those living paycheck to paycheck. Mecham says that most YNAB users have over six figures in annual income—and a budgeting app can positively impact oneself and even the world, especially for high-income adults.
“If I can get a 50-year-old that’s making $400k a year right to start to spend her money well, suddenly she’s able to materially affect things,” he says. “So, the more money you make, the more impactful the change is simply as a function of how much money you make.”
From a simple spreadsheet to a budget revolution
Mecham went to college with one objective in mind: gainful employment. His plan was to become an accountant, work for a Big Four firm, make partner, and leave the rest to history.
But getting an accounting degree wasn’t cheap, he found. It required him to budget religiously, and that was when he truly found his calling. Mecham’s budget process was so good that people were willing to pay for the spreadsheet he built, much to the relief of his wife who was the sole breadwinner of the family, making $11/hour.
“When I first created YNAB, the goal wasn’t to start a business,” he wrote late last year. “It wasn’t to build a software company, a movement, or even a philosophy. I just wanted to graduate from college debt-free and still afford the occasional donut.”
After partnering with software developers, Mecham developed YNAB into a platform that changes the way people think about money. In pop culture and throughout history, he says that money has been associated with corruption and greed, and seen as a necessary evil. Instead, he believes it should be treated as an extension of the self.
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But, he admits, this doesn’t necessarily mean the market needs to dramatically change; money should be used with intention and thoughtfulness. All together, that can lead to a happier and healthier individual.
“Money well spent leads to a life that’s well lived,” he says. “Money well spent literally increases the quality of life of the person, their health, their sleep, their relationships. It checks every other one of those important boxes we have in life.”
With more than half of all employees saying financial stress affects their work lives, helping build out financial wellness can be a game changer when it comes to business productivity. “Money’s tentacles get into everything,” Mecham adds.
Listening to customers—and building a fan base
YNAB’s popularity is due, in part, to users sharing their budget experiences on platforms like Reddit. In the 20 million-user-strong /r/PersonalFinance section, it can be hard to find a post about budgeting where YNAB is not mentioned.
Moreover, close to 200,000 Redditors discuss the app exclusively on the /r/YNAB subreddit, whose user base is on par with the pages about Taco Bell and the country of Cambodia. They use the space to seek out budgeting advice, share financial wins, and provide YNAB developers with suggestions—for better or for worse.
“Reddit is a source of honesty, and so it’s useful as a company to hear it. But not always. You don’t cater to it because then you have kind of a mob steering your product, and that doesn’t go well, but it is one source of good, unfiltered information that you can have,” says Mecham.
As a way to thank the app for how it reshaped their finances, YNAB users have done everything from obtaining a license plate and tattoos to even mentioning the app in their wedding vows.
“When you transform someone’s relationship with money, it’s such a net positive that they end up either attracting people that are like this or making them like this, where they just kind of can’t help but want to see other people also succeed,” Mecham says.
