Tom Hale, CEO of Oura: ‘If you want to perform at the highest level, sleep is one of the foundational elements’

In this week’s podcast, Oura CEO Tom Hale talks about the health tracker and what’s next. On the day we spoke his sleep score was 93 and his “readiness” was 87—similar to cohost Kristin Stoller. Mine was worse, thanks to a late night in Miami. 

“If you want to perform at the highest level, sleep is one of the foundational elements of your health regime,” says Hale. What’s different now is the ability to measure it—and see the impact of our actions, he said.

Several CEOs have told me they now consume less alcohol because it lowers their sleep scores. “Alcohol plays havoc with your REM sleep,” Hale says. Maybe that’s why Oura wearer and Anheuser-Busch InBev CEO Michel Doukeris is now heavily promoting nonalcoholic beer.

While Oura recently launched a fourth-generation model, it faces a lot of rivals in the smart ring category. Features like fertility tracking have also raised unfounded fears that such data could be weaponized against users in states that ban abortion.

There are limits to using health trackers as enterprise tools. Hale once experimented with people putting their scores in a company Slack channel. “It was a terrible idea. We rolled it back, literally within five days.” Employees worried their data might be used against them when seeking promotions or a new job. And they balked at the boss having insight into what they did outside work.

Information is power. While I don’t love the app’s Orwellian habit of lowering my suggested activity level on days where my “readiness” scores are down, it does prompt me to make better choices. Hale, of course, is a fan: “I am handling what I would consider the peak amount of stress and difficulty in my life with the most grace and the most capability and the most cognitive strength that I have ever had in my life. I attribute that to the Oura ring.”

You can watch the podcast here or listen on Spotify.

More news below.

Contact CEO Daily via Diane Brady at diane.brady@fortune.com

Top news

Trump warned reciprocal tariffs are coming. The president used his State of the Union address to warn Mexico and Canada he would take retaliatory action if they responded to the new set of tariffs he imposed on Tuesday. “Now it’s our turn to start using them against other countries,” he said. He added it might include non-monetary tariffs.

Quote of the night: “Tariffs are about making America rich again and making America great again and it will happen rather quickly. There’ll be a little disturbance, but we’re OK with that. It won't be much.”

Fact check: Bloomberg and The New York Times both fact-checked the president’s speech. You’ll be shocked to learn that a lot of them require further context.

Zelenskyy ready to negotiate? Trump said Ukraine’s leader had written to him and was ready to talk. Moscow reacted to the news “positively.”

Tariffs could wipe out all profits at Detroit’s Big 3 automakers, according to an analysis by Barclays. Without any adjustment (and there will be adjustment) the new taxes could add $3,000 in costs to each vehicle made.

Stagflation risk. Tariffs, rising inflation, and contracting economic activity … “This thing could get off the rails pretty quickly,” according to Tim Mahedy, chief economist at Access/Macro.

Google in breakup talks? Execs from Google met with the DOJ to argue that the search giant should not be broken up, according to Reuters. “We routinely meet with regulators, including with the DOJ to discuss this case. As we’ve publicly said, we’re concerned the current proposals would harm the American economy and national security,” a Google spokesperson said.

The CDC sent people to Texas to help control the measles outbreak there.

From Fortune

Carlyle and Blackstone execs on tariffs
Carlyle CEO Harvey Schwartz maintained that the post-election rally that hit markets hasn’t completely faded and that one-time tariffs, in the absence of a trade war, aren’t “sustainably inflationary.” Blackstone President Jonathan Gray, however, warned that consumer and corporate confidence is “falling off a cliff right now.”

Target and Best Buy warn of price increases
During their earnings calls on Tuesday, Best Buy and Target joined other Fortune 500 companies in warning that price increases could be on the horizon due to uncertainty around tariffs. “The consumer will likely see price increases over the next couple of days,” Target CEO Brian Cornell told CNBC.

Wall Street is distraught over Trump’s tariffs
Stock markets tumbled on the launch of Trump’s tariffs. The S&P 500, the Dow Jones, and the Nasdaq are all down. Analysts at the major banks are warning of higher prices, slower economic growth, trade wars, and recession risks.

Amazon CEO takes aim at middle managers again
Amazon CEO Andy Jassy says he wants to get rid of more middle managers at the company because they “want to put their fingerprint on everything.” Jassy, who has gone after middle managers before, says employees actually doing the work will have more “ownership” over their work. 

The markets

• Yesterday, the Dow lost 1.55%, the S&P 500 lost 1.22%, and the Nasdaq Composite dipped so far it came close to an official “correction” (i.e. down 10% from the top) ... The condition of U.S. stocks stands in stark contrast to the European markets. While the S&P is now down 1.76% YTD, the Euro Stoxx 600 is up nearly 10%, buoyed by the defense sector ... Futures on the S&P were trading up 0.61% this morning. 

From the analysts — tariffs-only edition

• Morgan Stanley on the global economy: “The US is proceeding with a further 10% tariff on China (taking the total to 20%), and the signs are that 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico will also be signed today (Mar 4). This is important and likely stagflationary for the global economy,” per Jonathan Garner et al.
• Barclays on autos: “...a 25% tariff could cause significant disruption for the auto industry, and even if the tariffs are scaled back to something more modest (or are used to bring content back to the US), it promises to add cost to vehicles / likely causing inflation. … How disruptive could this be? Very. With no operational adjustment, this could wipe out effectively all profits for the D3 OEMs,” per Dan Levy and Josh Cho.
• Goldman Sachs on inflation: “We estimate that a 25% tariff on Canada and Mexico (10% on Canadian energy) would raise … core prices by around 0.6%,” per Jan Hatzius et al.
• CIBC on the forecast: “It might be hard to believe, but we expect investors will face even more tariff discussion over the next six weeks. Potential tariffs targeting Canada and Mexico will be revisited on March 4, and Steel and Aluminum tariffs are threatened on March 12. April 1 is an extremely important date as over two dozen trade reports will be tabled. All of these reports are likely to argue for more U.S. protectionism,” per Ian de Verteuil and Will Stevenson.
• Citi on equities: “Both S&P 500 and Nasdaq saw a large decline in bullish positioning. For the S&P, the weekly decline in notional was the largest seen in the past 3 years and largely driven by increased short positioning. Across US indexes, risks are more elevated for Nasdaq longs which are all in loss. The average position loss levels exceed 4.4%, and the combination of large legacy at loss positions could exacerbate a further sell-off,” per Chris Montagu et al.
• UBS on consumer sentiment: “The trade taxes are direct attacks on US living standards. These costs will be quickly visible to US consumers, applying to high frequency purchases like food and fuel,” per Paul Donovan.

Around the watercooler