Ghosn is still a fugitive in Lebanon, but he’s also still credited with rescuing Renault from near bankruptcy and then doing the same at Nissan through a powerful alliance that later included Mitsubishi Motors. What’s less known is how Ghosn also helped launch the EV revolution as a pioneer in developing the electric car. In 2010, when rivals were dipping their toes in the market and Tesla was a money-losing manufacturer trading at $17 a share, Ghosn released the first mass-produced electric vehicle with the Nissan LEAF. 

So I was curious to ask Ghosn about his views on the current state of the industry and recent news that Apple is getting out of the EV business. Unlike Xiaomi founder Lei Jun, who says he was shocked by Apple’s decision to pull out of the market, Ghosn says he was not surprised.

“I don’t think they stopped because of technical problems—they have the ability to attract anyone with their resources and brand—but because of value,” says Ghosn. “These guys are used to high-margin, huge-return businesses, and I don’t think the value proposition was there.”

Ghosn recalls speaking with executives who launched Apple’s bid to develop an autonomous electric vehicle in 2014. “I was convinced that they had in mind to do something totally unique,” he says. “I never thought they wanted to be a carmaker but create value around connectivity.”

The brand that most impresses him in the EV space right now is China’s BYD, which he thinks is fast gaining on German and U.S. competitors in terms of quality. As for Nissan, which may now partner with Fisker on EVs (and remains Ghosn’s nemesis): “What a disaster.”

Such animosity is no surprise. As Nissan’s charges pile up, Ghosn insists that he did nothing wrong. He faces arrest in France and Japan if he leaves Lebanon. While it’s hard to asses the veracity of the charges against Ghosn without a trial, the process by which he was charged and held for more than 100 days in an unheated jail cell does feel, as the UN Human Rights Council put it, “arbitrary and unlawful.”

Unless Ghosn leaves Lebanon to face his day in court, he might never clear his name. Of his lawsuit against Nissan, he says, “little by little, things are moving along.” A complicated and sad state of affairs for a man could have once retired at the top of his game.

Diane Brady
@dianebrady
diane.brady@fortune.com

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