In doing so, he appears intent on showing he is more than a progressive warrior. But he has stunned some members of his own party by agreeing with his guests on issues such as restricting transgender women and girls in sports. Newsom called dismantling police departments “lunacy” and remained silent when Steve Bannon, an architect of President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign, falsely said Trump won the 2020 presidential election.

The programs provide a fresh lens on a liberal governor and potential 2028 presidential candidate who not long ago was enlisted as a chief surrogate for President Joe Biden’s campaign. Ahead of the 2022 midterms, he chastised national Democrats for being too passive in defending abortion rights and same-sex marriage, an issue he championed two decades ago as mayor of San Francisco.

Newsom said his choice of podcast guests reflects his interest in knowing more about how Republicans organized in the last election, when Trump swept every battleground state and Republicans locked up majorities in the House and Senate.

“I think we all agreed after the last election that it’s important for Democrats to explore new and unique ways of talking to people,” he added in an email to supporters.

Newsom’s party criticizes his guests

After spotlighting Bannon, conservative radio personality Michael Savage and Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk, Newsom will quickly diversify his lineup: His next guest is Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, last year’s Democratic vice presidential nominee. But some Democrats say the governor, who is widely viewed as having presidential ambitions, is selling out Democratic values in favor of his own political aspirations.

Aimee Allison, the founder and president of She the People, a national organizing hub for electing women of color, said Newsom is betraying California and “showing his weakness and naked ambition.” Allison was among Democrats who helped Newsom defeat a 2021 recall attempt.

“We need a governor that will defend California’s values, support vulnerable children, LGBTQ+ people, Black people, women, and everyone else who’s in the line (of) fire of the Trump administration. Instead he is making the worst moves possible in a time of rising fascism. He’s trying to remake himself to be acceptable to MAGA,” Allison wrote in an email, referring to supporters of Trump’s “Make America Great Again” movement.

California Assembly member Chris Ward and state Sen. Carolina Menjivar, who lead the state’s LGBTQ+ legislative caucus, said they were “profoundly sickened” by Newsom’s statement on transgender athletes. And Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear, another potential 2028 candidate, said of Bannon, “I don’t think we should give him oxygen on any platform — ever, anywhere.”

Finding a new audience

Podcasts have become an increasingly important venue in politics, and as Newsom considers a national campaign he has been praised by some for venturing into unfamiliar territory.

Democratic consultant Bill Burton, who was national press secretary for former President Barack Obama’s 2008 campaign, credited Newsom with trying to reach voters who might not engage with traditional media.

“I think there are going to be a lot of people this alienates in the short term,” Burton said. But, he added, Democrats “have to take a lot of big swings.”

The governor — who called Trump a threat to American democracy throughout last year’s campaign — has been trying to navigate a tenuous relationship with the White House as the state recovers from the devastating Los Angeles wildfires in January. He’s requested $40 billion in federal aid.

Newsom, while progressive, has never been locked into one ideological position: He’s broken at times with more liberal factions in the Legislature. His shift this time may be to head off the kind of criticism Republicans have aimed at former Vice President Kamala Harris, also of California, or edge toward positions more closely in line with public opinion. According to AP VoteCast, 55% of voters nationwide in the 2024 election said support for transgender rights in government and society has gone too far.

During the podcast episodes released so far, Newsom has been mostly affable and agreeable, though he’s challenged his guests at times. This is not the tart-tongued Newsom who appeared in a 2023 televised debate with Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, whom he described as weak and pathetic, or who called the state legislature into special session last year to attempt to safeguard the state’s progressive policies under a Trump administration.

In an age of rigid partisanship, talking with the other side is “so rarely a part of public discourse it seems like either bravery or lunacy,” said Thad Kousser, a political science professor at the University of California, San Diego. “While there are clear risks, he is trying to align his national reputation … in a slightly unpredictable middle.”