• Home
  • Latest
  • Fortune 500
  • Finance
  • Tech
  • Leadership
  • Lifestyle
  • Rankings
  • Multimedia

Stock market bubble talk may be inflated

By
Stephen Gandel
Stephen Gandel
Down Arrow Button Icon
By
Stephen Gandel
Stephen Gandel
Down Arrow Button Icon
May 7, 2014, 5:11 PM ET

FORTUNE — If you believe what you read in The New York Times, it’s time to sell stocks.

On Tuesday, the Times ran a pair of pieces saying the market is overvalued. Once again, it’s bubble time. The first piece, written by David Leonhardt, was mostly about a stock market valuation gauge invented by Noble-prize winning economist Robert Shiller.

But Leonhardt failed to mention that there has been debate about the usefulness of Shiller’s market measure, and he appears to have gotten some of his math wrong.

MORE: The BIG risks in the Nasdaq

The article says you should be wary of buying stocks right now because, on average, they are trading at 25 times earnings according to the Shiller P/E, which looks at 10 years of earnings, rather than the typical previous 12 months measure. Leonhardt says when the Shiller measure gets that high, stocks tend to “disappoint,” dropping on average 12% over the following five years.

But that isn’t correct. Going back to 1900, the market crossed 25 on the Shiller P/E on five occasions, and, on average, stock prices have risen nearly 4.7% during the following five years. Leonhardt factors in inflation, but that only gets you down to a loss of 2.6%, not 12%, and inflation is currently much lower than it has been in the past.

What’s more, Leonhardt’s calculations ignore dividends, which are significant. Factor those in and the average five-year return for stocks following a Shiller P/E of 25 is 12.5%. Add in inflation, and it’s more like 20%. And that’s just an average. Sometimes the market has done much better, like following late 1995, when stocks rose 130% after the Shiller P/E crossed into the current danger zone.

I don’t know where Leonhardt got his numbers. Mine come from Jeff Rubin of Birinyi Associates, who has, admittedly, been skeptical of the Shiller P/E measurement for a while. (“Let me get out my Shiller file,” he says when I call him.)

MORE: Three ways to reignite the job market

Rubin’s main beef with the measure is that it almost always says stocks are overvalued. A little over five years ago, back in March 2009, Shiller said, with his gauge at 13, that stocks were still expensive. That was a bad call. March 2009 was the bottom. The S&P 500 is up about 180% since that point, far higher than the Shiller P/E would have predicted. “If the Shiller P/E never told us it was time to buy, how can it be saying it’s time to sell now?” asks Rubin.

That being said, investors should temper their expectations about what the market can do from these levels. I have written about the 4% market. And certainly, technology stocks in particular look expensive right now.

And a 12.5% total return over the next five years isn’t great. But it’s still better than what you are likely to get investing in bonds or gold or real estate. But the implication of Leonhardt’s piece is that it is time for stock investors to run for the hills. You’d likely be better off staying put.

About the Author
By Stephen Gandel
See full bioRight Arrow Button Icon

Latest in

Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025

Most Popular

Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Fortune Secondary Logo
Rankings
  • 100 Best Companies
  • Fortune 500
  • Global 500
  • Fortune 500 Europe
  • Most Powerful Women
  • Future 50
  • World’s Most Admired Companies
  • See All Rankings
Sections
  • Finance
  • Fortune Crypto
  • Features
  • Leadership
  • Health
  • Commentary
  • Success
  • Retail
  • Mpw
  • Tech
  • Lifestyle
  • CEO Initiative
  • Asia
  • Politics
  • Conferences
  • Europe
  • Newsletters
  • Personal Finance
  • Environment
  • Magazine
  • Education
Customer Support
  • Frequently Asked Questions
  • Customer Service Portal
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms Of Use
  • Single Issues For Purchase
  • International Print
Commercial Services
  • Advertising
  • Fortune Brand Studio
  • Fortune Analytics
  • Fortune Conferences
  • Business Development
  • Group Subscriptions
About Us
  • About Us
  • Editorial Calendar
  • Press Center
  • Work At Fortune
  • Diversity And Inclusion
  • Terms And Conditions
  • Site Map
  • About Us
  • Editorial Calendar
  • Press Center
  • Work At Fortune
  • Diversity And Inclusion
  • Terms And Conditions
  • Site Map
  • Facebook icon
  • Twitter icon
  • LinkedIn icon
  • Instagram icon
  • Pinterest icon

Latest in

Born in Soviet Union, Grindr CEO was told he had two career options: Learn English or how to shoot a gun
SuccessThe Promotion Playbook
Born in Soviet Union, Grindr CEO was told he had two career options: Learn English or how to shoot a gun
By Orianna Rosa RoyleApril 12, 2026
3 minutes ago
Donald Trump stands behind a podium while pointing a finger in front of him.
EconomyTariffs
‘People are trying to be creative’: Tariff-battered American companies are so cash-starved they are using refund claims as collateral for loans
By Sasha RogelbergApril 12, 2026
2 hours ago
Former Citgo Petroleum interim CEO José Pereira was one of the 'Citgo Six' political prisoners held captive in Venezuela for nearly five years.
EnergyVenezuela
Former ‘Citgo 6’ political prisoner sees ‘karma’ in Maduro ouster, but Venezuelan oil won’t rebound until there’s true regime change
By Jordan BlumApril 12, 2026
3 hours ago
JD Vance leaves Pakistan after marathon talks with Iran end without a deal as Tehran refuses U.S. demand not to develop nuclear weapons
PoliticsIran
JD Vance leaves Pakistan after marathon talks with Iran end without a deal as Tehran refuses U.S. demand not to develop nuclear weapons
By Munir Ahmed, E. Eduardo Castillo, Samy Magdy, Cara Anna, Ben Finley, Collin Binkley and The Associated PressApril 11, 2026
7 hours ago
Trump downplays talks for ceasefire deal with Iran, claiming military victory. ‘It doesn’t matter. From the standpoint of America, we win’
PoliticsDonald Trump
Trump downplays talks for ceasefire deal with Iran, claiming military victory. ‘It doesn’t matter. From the standpoint of America, we win’
By The Associated PressApril 11, 2026
11 hours ago
Appeals court says national security implications of halting White House ballroom construction must be weighed
Lawcourts
Appeals court says national security implications of halting White House ballroom construction must be weighed
By Michael Kunzelman, Ben Finley and The Associated PressApril 11, 2026
11 hours ago

Most Popular

'This is the last warning.' Iran threatens U.S. warships after they throw down the gauntlet for winner-take-all Strait of Hormuz
Politics
'This is the last warning.' Iran threatens U.S. warships after they throw down the gauntlet for winner-take-all Strait of Hormuz
By Fortune EditorsApril 11, 2026
12 hours ago
Palantir CEO says AI ‘will destroy’ humanities jobs but there will be ‘more than enough jobs’ for people with vocational training
Future of Work
Palantir CEO says AI ‘will destroy’ humanities jobs but there will be ‘more than enough jobs’ for people with vocational training
By Fortune EditorsApril 11, 2026
23 hours ago
The 'affordability economy' has created a housing market nobody predicted: Prices collapsing in the Sun Belt, soaring in the Rust Belt
Real Estate
The 'affordability economy' has created a housing market nobody predicted: Prices collapsing in the Sun Belt, soaring in the Rust Belt
By Fortune EditorsApril 11, 2026
1 day ago
Warren Buffett says 'accumulating great amounts of money' doesn’t achieve greatness—He still lives in a $31,500 Nebraska home and clipped coupons
Success
Warren Buffett says 'accumulating great amounts of money' doesn’t achieve greatness—He still lives in a $31,500 Nebraska home and clipped coupons
By Fortune EditorsApril 11, 2026
23 hours ago
Scottie Scheffler joined Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy in golf's $100M club—and donated his entire Ryder Cup stipend to charity
Success
Scottie Scheffler joined Tiger Woods and Rory McIlroy in golf's $100M club—and donated his entire Ryder Cup stipend to charity
By Fortune EditorsApril 10, 2026
2 days ago
Navy tests Hormuz blockade as expert says U.S. military prepares for round 2 and could degrade Iran's hold over the strait to a 'manageable level'
Politics
Navy tests Hormuz blockade as expert says U.S. military prepares for round 2 and could degrade Iran's hold over the strait to a 'manageable level'
By Fortune EditorsApril 11, 2026
17 hours ago

© 2026 Fortune Media IP Limited. All Rights Reserved. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy | CA Notice at Collection and Privacy Notice | Do Not Sell/Share My Personal Information
FORTUNE is a trademark of Fortune Media IP Limited, registered in the U.S. and other countries. FORTUNE may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website. Offers may be subject to change without notice.