Name: Watch Cardinal Peter Turkson's Full Interview at Fortune-Time’s Global Forum
Uploaded: 2016-12-02
Duration: 19 min 21 s
Description: Charlie Rose interviews the man who oversees the Vatican’s humanitarian and development efforts.

[ SOUND ] I have the great pleasure of introducing [ UNKNOWN ]. I said to him, Cardinal [ UNKNOWN ], what do I call you? Thinking he would say, his eminence, or something, he said how about Peter. I won't use Peter, I will use Cardinal Turkson, but he is at the forefront of the ideas that we have been discussing Hear this morning in the few minutes that we have gotten started as we have laid out the imperative of this conference. He has some familiarity with the United States having been to school there. He went back to Ghana, became an archbishop and then a cardinal, first nominated by Pope John Paul II Then Pope Benedict brought him here to the Vatican. And then Pope Francis has given him this new responsibility. Here is what Pope Francis said to him when he handed over this responsibility, which begins in January 2017. Did I catch you we will be competent in particular issues regarding migrants, those in need, the sick, the excluded and the marginalized, the imprisoned and the unemployed as well as victims of armed conflict, natural disasters and all forms of slavery and torture. You sir have your hands flow. [ LAUGH ] Thanks, that's quiet a question. There's so very many of you. First of all, good morning to all of you and I'm very glad to be with you this morning to share my thoughts about these prices. Now, you surely know governments. If governments had to deal with this, I don't know how many ministries they would have to deal with these issues. And it's all because Pope Francis, as part of his reform, he's decided to bring the different offices. There used to be an office that there with migrants, there used to be an office that there with humanitarian assistance, and then an office that there with health care And now sanitation. But I suppose to bring them all together and to fashion for them a very good arrowhead for penetration and for effectiveness. He's decided to bring them all together on the one head. All right go ahead. Now so that's what we prepare for. And right from the beginning, we decided this should not be a conglomerate of offices. We decided to formulate a new vision of Pope Francis for the church's involvement in the social arena. So we, in the process of formulating this And when we [ UNKNOWN ], we see what offices and structures we'll need to enable us to carry out this vision of Pope Francis, so that's what we do now. You had a lot to do with the Pope's [ UNKNOWN ] on the environment, some consider you the primary architect of that, connecting what happened with the environment and poverty. But I wanna pick up again on this theme. Tell me what you think of business and what you think might come out of this conference in terms of what business can do and what the church can do in a very concrete way in attacking questions of poverty and inequality? [ UNKNOWN ], concretely now, I came to the Vatican in 2010. This was the middle of the financial crisis, and so we thought that it was our responsibility to provide A way of looking at this financial situation and part of it was business, and of course banking and all of that. So one of the facet was dealt, was to have and encourage the church to stop pointing accusing fingers at a world of business. So we produced a small booklet. Which we call the vocation of the business leader. And with that, invited business leaders to consider what they do in terms of a vocation. Now vocation for us, then, is not limited to when people want to become priests or become brothers or nuns or whatever. But it's an invitation to business to recognize themselves In their transformative role of the resources available as co- creators, as partners with God. In our making the resources of nature serve the good of humanity. And so sometimes we put that concrete by saying, God created a tree. God did not create furniture. It requires business to transform trees into furniture, to transform minerals into whatever objects we use. So, essentially that's what we think a business is. It's a partner with God in bringing the resources of nature to the conclude of humanity. And therefore, concrete what a business can do. I think business therefore serves not only those who enable business before to work. So the investors, but also those who need to benefit from business, and so theres a very many different stakeholders. So this what basically we encourage business to do, and sometimes in We've have to tell we have to encourage business people to recognize basically [ INAUDIBLE ]. To ensure that work itself is dignified, to ensure that works which they make is also good work. And to ensure that the customer relationship is also good. And we think when this is observed, then basically, business offers are very dignified in our role in society. How does business balance its responsibility to its stockholders with its responsibility to stakeholders being humanity? No stakeholders enable business people to do what they do. They invest and bring the money to enable business users to do business, but the character of business it depends more than also bringing the money. If we are dealing with the mining company for example. There is a place you go to. There are the other people who live on the terrain. There are people who's lives will be transformed by the mining activity, and who may be moved to one side or the other. So involving this is just more than investors. So we encourage more, if you will, a holistic view. Of business, and its activity. At the end of the day, bottom line for us, is that everything that happens should serve the well being of the human person. And what we say that for is that the human person is the only thing that God created for its own sake. Everything else was created for the well- being and to serve the human person. The human person is the one who was created not to serve anything else, but for it's own sake, as it were, and when, therefore, the exercise of business or any other human activity or engagement tends to make man serve another goal or aim, we think that [ INAUDIBLE ] distortion. I would want to then remind that everything should serve the world of human being voice human voice may not be reduced and we come [ UNKNOWN ] object just as any other concern. Do you believe that or does the church believe that there is the necessary? Regulation and, lets use the what the pope said for example. The Pope said, it is not so much the market economy itself but the ideology that too often lies behind it, that define market but the magical conception of market which resist the necessary political over size and regulation. What did the Holy Father mean? [ LAUGH ] What he meant, I think you meet him tomorrow he'll probably tell you what he meant. [ LAUGH ] [ LAUGH ] But I think there's something from this we can pick up. What I referred to as when I got here in the midst of a financial, we purchased a small booklet We called it reform in the financial system and then went on to stay in the light of a global authority, global financial authority. The booklet were received in several places and it brought us, at one point to Frankfurt, to the [ UNKNOWN ] Bank To discuss with business people, investors, bank leaders and all of that. Every analysis we made on the crisis was accepted. Acceptable and all, we identify moral causes of technical or technological causes. But when need come to establishing global authority, to exercise some oversight of finance the day we a had the greatest resistance. So, the establishment of any form of authority to regulate this is mine is not easy. And probably that's what the Pope is referring to. At a certain point, the only way that we can ensure and guarantee that, you know it all so well. Every now and then it comes up libel. Libel or libel in England. Libel, right. Yeah, it needs to be fixed, and then there's the problem about who controls the rates and all of that. A certain amount of [ INAUDIBLE ] is necessary to ensure the [ UNKNOWN ] follow this, and I think that's what the Pope is referring to. In America they call it Dodd Frank. Okay [ LAUGH ]. The idea of the dignity of work, I mean you have asked the world to consider The dignity of work and whether we ought to be about having machines perform the work of human beings. This, I think, is gonna be a problem. That would engage our creativity and attention for quite a bit of time. Since the days of Pope John Paul II, we've been invited to not to reduce work to just its objective creation or production of things. We've been invited to recognize what work also does to the human person. And so we've been invited to recognize the objective and the subjective character of work. Not reduced to what we produce, but what also work does to the worker or the human person. It ensures his dignity not because he has a salary And in the terms of Pope Francis, can put bread on the table of the family. But what also helps create a human person it says that it could provide some opportunity for one to exercise his own creativity, put to work his own talents, and his God- endowed riches So work therefore, it's not, the sense of work is not to be limited to what we produce, but recognize that work that's also improved the subjective nature, character of the one who exercises work. The dignity then of the human person is made manifest also in what he produces or what he does. That probably is also the only way that any human person created in the image and likeness of God resembles God, in producing things out of his own creativity, talents and endowments. And that's why we would like to invite people to also recognize. For his own sense of dignity and for the dignity of family. Definitely, yeah. Michael Gerson writing in the Washington Post, he's a columnist for the Washington Post said. Talking about globalization, and the rise of populism and all of that said, that [ UNKNOWN ] said that globalized elites are leading participants in an economic system with a global supply chain, freely moving capital, and rapid innovation, that during the past 20 years has taken a billion people out of extreme poverty around the world. This is arguably the greatest humanitarian achievement in history. Without debating the greatest. [ LAUGH ] That's a remarkable achievement. Certainly. And so the point here, and I keep coming back to it, is what's necessary to make sure government, NGOs Business with all the resources, all the opportunities. With all the human capital that businesses have, the best and brightest in many cases. How do you employ it along lines of morality and profit? The statement you just quoted of business and having lifted a lot of the cloud of poverty goes on to say, I thought if we quoted from the same source, goes on to why it is lift us so very many out of poverty It is also increasing in inequality Exactly right it does. Okay. Yes. So, is lifted around [ INAUDIBLE ] out of poverty but also in inequality and setting cases have also increased. And for us it will be great if it will lifting people out of poverty it doesn't increase inequality in anyway. So, exactly what does it require? I think it is to be commended that business and trade, and commerce and all of that else spread, okay what in very decent way. It does give opportunity for people to exercise your all creativity, talents to exercise what can all. But it will be great if in the process of course we able to also saw, make the spread of business and the spread of avenues of work and all of that have also reduced the inequalities that ensue from this. So that, I don't know how many [ INAUDIBLE ] not go into countries and outside examples, but in certain cases yes, it introduced of [ UNKNOWN ], but it's also widened the gap between the rich and the poor. And that's what, so while we praise. And so the question is could it have reduced, could it have lifted so many people out of poverty without, without increasing the gap of inequality? That is- Could it have done that and what is the pathway to do that? [ LAUGH ] And what can the church contribute? [ LAUGH ] No I think the part where to do this is us you observe. Not to make profit the main objective of business investment on all our activities, but to make, establish, or to recognize as the main goal of business. They're ultimately lifting people out of poverty to see what the world mean for a human person. I know that this requires investment, but profit making and all of that may not be the objective. And as for what the church can do, I think that Czech can serve us a very decent outlet. For promoting and lifting people out of poverty by way of directing resources and investment to the needy areas where this needs to be exercised. And we have a case before us now. We are now targeting and looking at Haiti, Central African Republic, and South Sudan. These are places which are battling with poverty and we think that we need to adopt a model that enables them to definitively and completely make it out of poverty. So next year one of our concerns would be not to simply to try to see The pattern which has failed, and I adopt new ones. I think we have the means to change the orbit in which people live. And do that in a basic three things, housing, work, and access to work. Housing, essential workers the same. So housing, work, and if you want, what we call land, okay? Access to property, access to [ INAUDIBLE ] can exploit and use. When we have [ UNKNOWN ] that ensure each one Having a roof over their head, having [ INAUDIBLE ] new way of kind of sustaining their lives, and maintaining and sustaining their family. And ultimately, something that they can call their own, personal capital. We would probably gradually be succeeding in transforming the [ INAUDIBLE ] in which people live. Is a final argument and the call to action, as a colleague of mine at CBS used to say, you can do good and you can do well at the same time. [ LAUGH ] We wish we can do well. [ LAUGH ] [ LAUGH ] Not simply limit ourselves to good. I think there's a lot of good will out there. Yes. Since the beginning of the pontificate of Pope Francis, started already at the end of Pope Benedict But does me a lot of show and display of good will to respond to the call to action if you want by Pope Francis. We've received guests from first food chain who have come to our office and said we've heard what the Pope is saying what can we do? And in that case we said fine. Begin by looking at your supply chain. And try to improve over [ UNKNOWN ] supply chain of you are able to do that, you had already have held so very many people. Then others come and say, we recognize that access to energy is a problem in some areas, a lot of devolving countries. And so, they wanna have production in very big scale. Of solar system, so that people don't struggle with smoke and lantern, kerosene lantern and stuff like that, that's something that we welcome and if it may just a little bit of information, on the account of this week, the Vatican accepted to participate in the. And Expo 2017 in [ UNKNOWN ]. The team of that is in future energy, new forms of energy for the future. And the Vatican accepted to participate. Suddenly we go in there not because we can display new technologies about energy But we're going there to try to tell a story about energy that saves the world being of humanity. And that's where we're going there, energy at the beginning of human life, energy in the hands of humanity and [ UNKNOWN ]. Is God good, is God bad? And then emphasize the positive side to us lifting people out of poverty, and conclude With something that normally is not considered, that's energy within all of us. And we identify that as spiritual energy. That leads us to pray, to meditate, to do you know all the good things. Cardinal Turkson, thank you so much for coming. Thanks to you all [ APPLAUSE ] Okay. Thank you. Thank you. [ BLANK_AUDIO ]

Charlie Rose interviews the man who oversees the Vatican’s humanitarian and development efforts.