Thasunda Brown Duckett, President and CEO, TIAA
Interviewer: Maria Aspan, FORTUNE

Most Powerful Women 2022 - Challenge Accepted: Year One

being a business leader at this moment may be tougher than ever and with lingering challenges from the pandemic from inflation, a volatile stock market and fears of recession, but it's also a time of opportunity, a time for change. Our next guest to Shonda Brown Duck, it is excited about being in a leadership position right now despite the headwinds. And as you probably know to Shonda is the president and Ceo of T. I. A. And the big supporter of girls who code, she's one of the two black female Ceos currently leading Fortune 500 companies after taking the helm at T. I. A. Just last year. She is also number 11 on this year's most powerful women list to Shonda joins the M. P. W. Summit co chair and Fortune Senior writer Maria aspen to talk about her first year as chief executive and what lies ahead, Please welcome them to the stage. I love it to Shonda, thank you so much for joining us again. We are so fortunate to have you back on our stage a year after you started and joined us last year. Um Now that you've been Ceo of T. I A. For for a little more than a year, how do you feel about it? Looking back at your first year in the job? What stands out? Yeah, well it's so great to be here and I love the title of our session challenge accepted Um when I think about the last 18 months, you know I like to say I'm jealous of me And I'm jealous of me because I get to surround myself with incredible people, um I'm jealous of me because over the last 18 months um I get to get really clear on who we are and what we're here to do. You know, we exist to secure retirement for millions of Americans and when you think about the problem that still has to be solved that 40% of Americans will run out of money in retirement, especially when you think about the economy, which I know will get to um I'm jealous of me because I get to be at the table. Um I get to make impact uh and when I think about the headwinds, I feel like challenges accepted because if not me then who and the opportunity to drive this company forward on a transformational agenda. The opportunity to make positive impact. Just a line with who I am and I would say the most important thing um is I get to earn the right to leave this organization, which means you have to win hearts and minds every single day and doing that, coming in navigating a pandemic, navigating covid mental health etcetera. You have to get creative on how are you going to win hearts and minds and how are you going to make sure that you are building a culture that's built to last through the highs and the lows, I'd love to dig into the economy since there is so much going on and so much again has changed since a year ago. Bear market rising inflation, rising interest rates. How worried are you? And that we're headed into a recession. Yeah I mean when you think about it, clearly the Fed has been very clear, you know inflation is at 8.3%. Uh said once it get it down to 2%. Um so a recession is looking likely. You know the question is how long how hard um I don't know but I think the most important thing for me is to think about who we serve um to think about everyday americans who are trying to figure out, you know they're the rising costs. Uh Everyone is looking at their statement and it's not looking that great and you think about your parents that maybe thinking about retiring or you're thinking about your parents that are in retirement. Um Or you think about the young people who may have never seen a market this volatile and so what I want to stay focused on is what we can control and what we can control is reaching out and talking to who we serve. What we can control is making sure that everyone has a plan and that we don't time the market that we stay diversified. Um And what we can control especially when it about who we are at T. I. A. Is to make sure that everyone has access to guaranteed income. So that there is one aspect on your portfolio that is not in the red, which is what we've been doing for over 100 years? And so the market will be volatile? That will continue to be volatile. But I think we have to make sure that we're doing all, we're doing all that we can and continue to lead from the front and stay connected with who we serve every day. You've talked in the past about how you kind of hold your father in your mind as who you make products for and how you make decisions as you're navigating this economy. What are you doing to make sure that the Otis browns of the world have access to long term retirement? Yeah. I talk a lot about Rosie and Otis Brown just the names are just awesome, right? Rosie and Otis? Um and you know, I talked about it because my mother is a retired educator. Um and my dad worked in a warehouse uh and drove trucks, did not go to college. And I talk about him so much because while he was working for a company for decades, he did not take advantage of his 41K. That was for him. He only had his pension and to be able to tell your father that you had access to something that you didn't take advantage of. We failed. And so when I think about a market like we're dealing with, I think about, are we talking to everyone? We're all at our jobs every single day. Are you talking to the person that providing security at your company? Are you talking to your executive assistant? Are you talking to your ops people? And are you saying you know what are you invested in our four oh one K. Or 43 B. Plan? Are you maxed out? You know are you staying invested? Are we talking to the young people? And so you can hear the passion because I know what's at stake when we don't and when you think about what's at stake and sometimes people say when you think about retirement, that's like way down the line. Um but the decision that we make in our 20's decide what that way down the line will look like. And when we think about the ability to close the income inequality gap, how can we close it when 40% of people are running out of money in retirement? The number is even more staggering. When you look at people of color, which means the daughter or the son is trying to take care of mom and dad that may not live together. So two households, you're also trying to take care of your young ones and give them a great life and you're trying to live make it make sense. So I think that we have an opportunity to say, how do we make sure that we are preparing our young people to think about their tomorrow so that we're not transferring debt, but we're transferring wealth which means we can all do our part. And so I can't help but think about my mom and dad because I can't help and think about the sacrifices that they made along the way and to not take advantage of something that was for him simply because the flyer the conversation did not connect to a man in the warehouse, did not connect to someone who's working hard every day to put food on the table and to do their very best when their best is insufficient. So I think we can do better. We should do better. And I do think that we can all think about an Otis in a rosy brown as we think about retiring inequality and as we think about this market volatility to make sure that people know the resources and the access that they have for them and that they're actually taking advantage of it. You've talked a lot and alluded to just the racial and gender wealth gaps. How can those of us in this room work to close those gaps at a time when women are still recovering from the economic impact of the pandemic and the racial and the economy is again, No, absolutely. I mean we know that we have to retire inequality right ladies like we have to do it period. I think for us. I call it, you know what can we do? We know that women retire with 30% less than men. Uh We know that we have a savings gap. We know that we have an income gap. We have a guarantee gap. But what can we do? Well, here's just a few simple things. You know one we can make sure that we're looking at our policies at work and making sure that we're addressing any equity inadequacies and that we're always running the numbers and we're always running the reports and then being okay making the changes when you see a discrepancy, we can make sure that our benefits are working and not just to say we have great benefits but are people taking advantage of them? What is the goal of the benefits? Are people on track? Do we not just say that we have financial education? We have a great 401k. Plan? The real question is, what are the outcomes that these benefits are yielding for our people? And how do we just aggregate the data to say our women taking advantage of it at the same pace as men? Are blacks and Latinos taking advantage at the same place as white americans. Are we really asking the harder questions and then are we willing to do the work? And so I do think that there's more that we can do and then also policy, you know, what can we do as a matter of policy to say? How do we make sure that when we think about women that are still the primary caregiver, that the benefits are working for them, that when they had to exit the workforce during Covid and maybe could not contribute to their four oh one K. Plan or 43 B. Plan, they lost compounding interest for two years. How do we make sure that they can catch up? And so I think the question for all of us is to just make sure that we're being intentional and that we're not just checking the box. We're saying is the box working for everyone. And so I do think we have to remain optimistic. I do think we have to ask the hard questions, but I do think that we can do more work. We can retire inequality, but it's gonna take us to operate with a different level of urgency. And I would also think we have to realize it can't just be the sisterhood. We have to bring the men to the table. When you look at 40 for women are running a Fortune 500, you can say, yeah, there's progress. Um factually, but 44, that's like 9%. We're not going to close the inequality gap. We're not going to close the gender gap. If we don't make sure that we bring our allies are advocates to the table and to make sure that we believe it's a problem that we all must solve. Not just the group. Um that may not be at the table at the level that we want. So it's not just women's problem to solve the women gap. Um, it's not just minorities to solve the minority gap. We need all of us to join the table. Um, and I think that if we can get our allies and our advocates uh, to the table at a much accelerated pace, we can make accelerated progress On a personal level. You are of course one of two black women running a Fortune 500 company. I mean we heard last night from Roz Brewer Walgreens about how that sometimes makes her feel. How do you think about it these days? Yeah. I mean I'm on the shoulders of Giants. Um, you know, and I've said this before and I'll say it again, I recognized that it was the cooks and the janitors and the secretaries that introduced my gender and my melanin to corporate America. You know, I understand that talent is created equally. Opportunity is not and I understand that it's not sufficient. That it's just me and ross, not sufficient. Um and so for me, my my hope and my goal is to make sure that whenever I am in a room that I look to see who's in the room, but most importantly who's not. And I'm asking the question, I understand that in my role too much is given much is required. And though it shouldn't be my burden, but carrying a burden is not new to me to women to the culture. Um, And so for me and I know similarly to Roz we're operating with a sense of urgency. You know my hope is that people can see me and say you know what I can create a new chapter on what a Ceo can look like, how a Ceo can move and operate. And maybe that if people can see me that there's another young girl that can say I can be her today. I also think that we have to make sure that it's not just the young girls that can see themselves. We have to make sure that we're having the conversation at the board level. We have to make sure that as Ceo that we're looking at succession pipeline. Not just to say we have X percent of women but where are the women? And are they on a path to be in the C suite? And if not what is getting in the way, what is getting in the way and then how do we do our part? And so for me there's a lot more work to be done. But to black women cannot do it alone. We need the sisterhood, we need men, we need all of us. And clearly we have to all agree That 40 for women does not represent the talent of women that can lead companies clearly to black women does not represent the full talent of women that can run a Fortune 500. So I do think that there's more work that we can do. Um but I'm up for the challenge and challenge is accepted and the assignment is clear. A year from now. What do you want to be talking about on this stage? Progress period a year from now? I want to talk about how we made progress in closing this retirement gap a year from now. I want to talk about the momentum at T. A. And hopefully so many other companies and what we're doing with intentionality to make sure that people can retire with dignity. A year from now. I hope it's not just 44 women running a Fortune 500 a year from now. I hope you all will come up to me and say I did one do better. I did one do better. I decided to do better. I decided to engage with an ally to be an advocate for someone. I decided to look in my office and say who's that brown girl or that black girl where there may not be another brown girl that she can see, but I'm going to stand in the gap. What is our do better? And so a year from now. The market may still be volatile. A year from now. There could still be a lot of headwinds but a year from now we can still decide to make progress all the same and that's what I hope to see a year from now. Thank you. Thank you