Name: E. Jean Carroll and Robbie Kaplan discuss their $83.3 million victory against Donald Trump
Uploaded: 2024-05-15
Duration: 19 min 38 s
Description: Carroll and Kaplan sat down with Fortune’s Emma Hinchliffe at a Most Powerful Women dinner in New York City.

Carroll and Kaplan sat down with Fortune’s Emma Hinchliffe at a Most Powerful Women dinner in New York City.

E. Jean Carroll and Robbie Kaplan discuss their $83.3 million victory against Donald Trump

Conferences

Ok. Hello E Robbie, welcome. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you, Emma. This is so exciting. Yes, exactly. So it's been almost four months since he won $83.3 million after suing Donald Trump. It's been just a few weeks since the judge denied his request for a new trial. So, how are you feeling? I feel fabulous. I feel very, very lucky to be here tonight. We are all very lucky to be even on this earth that we're alive. We have one life and I'm glad that I met Robbie Kaplan at the end of mine. I'm 80. It's not the end, not the end, but I'm overwhelmed every day, every day with happiness just for being alive and knowing this woman where to go. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful. Um So of course, Trump has many other civil and criminal cases swirling around him so far. You guys are like the only ones who have successfully held into account in court twice. So what made your cases so strong? Well, you just heard from her, what made our case so strong was the amazing, incredible, unbelievably courageous Eugene Carroll who had the guts to face him down twice, the second time, eye to eye in person and tell a story that no one thought anyone would believe until we got 18 different jurors who believed it unanimously twice. Um, that's the reason there's a big difference in the world in my view, at least between kind of what's out there in the media and what's out there on social media and the internet and what happens in a courtroom. Um, it takes a long time in court. It's really kind of a pain in the t, in a whole bunch of ways. But the rules that apply in a courtroom, the rules of evidence and the juries and a judge who was amazing. Judge Kaplan had no relation. Um, really, I think, do an incredible job of bringing out the truth and if only Donald Trump were on trial a few more times, God willing before he is up for president, I think we may see an even different result than we're seeing it today, but that is the truth one out and it went out because we were in a courtroom with Eugene. Well, speaking of, obviously Trump has been on trial over the past few weeks. What have you made of this case so far? You know, I'm just, I'm no different than anyone else. I'm looking at it from the outside so far, the prosecution case has seemed to me to come in extremely well, you have a jury very similar to the jury we had in our second trial because it's a jury from Manhattan. It was a snow day in our second trial. So we had a very Manhattan, which I was very happy about. Um, and I think, you know, his fundamental Eugene was pointing this out on the, right here in the opening. Trump's lawyer said that he never slept, never had any relationship whatsoever with Stormy Daniels. And that's been completely disproven. So, you know, it's just lie upon, lie upon lie. And when it's like kind of the, the, the, the Ginga game, my kids used to play, my son used to play when you pull out the bottom thing, everything collapses. It has not. Yes. Um Eugene, have you spoken to Stormy Daniels? Um It's, this is the first time I've ever told this story. I was at a live comedy show of Kathy Griffin and I was backstage saying, oh, Kathy, it's so fabulous at that time. A very large man with muscles popping on each side huge. He came back and Cathy said, oh that is uh she named a famous comedian. That's his security. And then he stepped forward like he was talking to an archbishop introducing the Virgin Mary. He said to Kathy Griffin, MS Griffin, Miss Daniels would like to come backstage and see you. I heard. So I ran up that back. I ran up to that dressing room. I shut the door. I took Cathy's dog with me and I sat like that like this because if the press, if anybody with all the iphones, if anybody in the audience, if anybody backstage had seen, uh, Kathy Griffin, Stormy Daniels and Een standing in a group and een, you, you know, this is on the record, right? Oh, yeah, I, well, ok. So we did not meet, we didn't, we did not meet, but she sounded very nice. Well, probably always be Dean's attorney. So thank you. Um You know, we're seeing events like Harvey Weinstein's conviction being overturned in New York. What message do you hope that your victory sent to survivors in this environment for women's rights? Oh, ok. We're upset but this doesn't stop us, right? No, it's just a blip in the road. Robbie says we're going to change the law, change the law. That's it. Well, we're not going to let Harvey Weinstein, which law are we changing? So, in, in our case, in Eugene's case, we were allowed to put on the federal rules are different than the state rules and we were allowed to put on evidence from two prior victims of Trump. One years before what happened to Eugene and one years after we kind of book ended it and both of those women talked about the exact same mo that Trump used as he used regime. He has a tendency to kind of flirt, chat it up with a woman kind of get very friendly. And then all of a sudden when he thinks he's in an advantageous position to pout and that's what he to see, Jing. It's what he did to Natasha Stoynoff. It's what he did. Jessica Leeds. That was the testimony that was admitted in the Harvey Weinstein case as well. But the New York Court of Appeals said that that wasn't ok. New York needs to modernize its law. So it's similar to federal law and that evidence can come in. So it's, it's strange, I think we feel badly because if only two women had come forward about Weinstein, the case would have gone and it would have stood, but because 90 or 100 came forward, they threw it out. So it makes us very angry. It just, it just makes no sense. And, uh, Robbie is, uh, I trust that when Robbie says we're going to change the law, we're going to change the law because that is ridiculous that more women who come forward, it doesn't stand. It doesn't make sense. I'm an oxymoron. Exactly. Yeah, if anyone can do it. Well, ej, you've said you sued for defamation to get your reputation back after Trump really lobbed every possible insult at you after you said that he assaulted you. But in the year sense, you know, his insults have been amplified by like an army of online accounts and bots just kind of flinging similar insults at you and smearing your reputation. What has it been like for you to live with that? And even to know that, you know, there could be no end to it. Well, there is no end. It's, it's fine. I'm very listen, I won. Yeah, Robbie, does it concern you? Yeah. Um, yes, we won and yes, uh, the verdict was unprecedented and he deserved every penny that he's going to have to pay. But as Eugen said, the vitriol and the hate and the threats of violence don't end. Um, and that's the world we live in today and, and I can't tell you, I don't go to bed most nights. I'm sure every woman in this room has people saying terrible things on X on Instagram. We all get, you're ugly, you're old, you're shriveled, you don't deserve this. You're pathetic. You're hideous. You don't deserve to go on. We all are getting that. I am not unusual. Every woman in this room knows exactly what I'm talking about. Every woman. Well, um, you know, of course, your victory is meaningful to so many, including so many in this room. You know, on the other hand, Trump is still the Republican nominee. So what does it say to you about our public discourse that Trump could be found liable in a case like this and for many millions of voters, it's either a non-issue or something that they even rally around. You wanna go first. I think he's gonna lose the election. Oh, I think he's gonna lose. I'm not worried, I don't care if he's a nominee, he's not gonna win. What makes the third because he's behaved like an ass for the last year. It's not going to fool uh, enough Americans who are really pretty smart. He's not gonna fool. He's an ass and he's behaved that way. He walked out when Robbie was giving her final argument, the argument that, uh, told the jury the entire story and delivered all the evidence he got right up in the middle and Robbie was so intense, she didn't even know he had gotten up and walked out. The judge had to say, I want to say to the court that Mr Trump has walked up. Uh So, no, I don't think he's gonna win. Robbie. What do you think? Well, as per usual, we're going to play our roles. Now, I worry. Um I definitely worry it's astounding to me. Uh that someone who has now two unanimous juries have held that he sexually assaulted Eugene Carroll. Um that anyone would seriously consider that person to be a candidate for the presidency of the United States. Um But we live in a society today where I think certain, for certain segments of the population that's actually appealing is as insane as that sounds. Um But II, I do hope that there are enough sane people and hopefully enough sane women who, when they go into that voting box are not going to vote for the crazy. It's not just crazy, crazy, childish bully sexual abuser. Robbie. You've seen our judicial system handle some of the most serious issues of our time. In addition to Eugene's case, you spearheaded a lawsuit over the white supremacist attacks in Charlottesville. You famously bankrupt. Bankrupt. Yes, you argued for same sex marriage in front of the Supreme court. The list goes on and on and on. But you know, when you look at our judicial, don't forget she jackknifed the don't say gay in Florida. That was Robbie. I know we can stay here all night just listing the rest of the things on Robbie's resume. But you know, when you look around at our national institutions, do you think they hold up to another case like this one? You know, when you look at the polarized political climate and our judicial system, is it as strong as it used to be? And what happens if there's another Trump presidency? So we are talking about this on the ride here today and Een said, what will happen? God, she doesn't think it will happen. But what will happen if Trump is elected? And my appeals continue. And I said, well, look in the normal system under our rules, nothing should happen. We will win the appeals. His arguments are very weak. He has a bond on the 83.83 $0.3 million. He has $5 million deposited with the court. When we, when the appeals we should get that money and justice will be served. I said, but, and here's a big, but there's this thing out there now called The Loss of Democracy Risk. And it's a real thing because we talked to financiers about the money that we were holding and they said too much of a risk. There's too much of a risk that Donald Trump will say. Chubb, don't pay the bond or southern district of New York, don't pay the judgment. I still believe in my heart, in my bones that that won't happen. I think our judicial system for the most part has held up pretty well. Um But there's a lot of smart people in the world that are very worried about that and it's not just for, for this group, it's not just the loss of democracy. Imagine for the first time in our history, the president of the United States tells Chub not to pay a bond. What's that going to do for the rest of the economy? Um It's some scary stuff but Eugene says he'll win. So we don't have to worry. Well, what about when you zoom out, not just this case, but the ju judicial system as a whole and you know, our democratic institutions through another Trump presidency. So of the three branches, I think that the judicial branch has on average, done the best. Um But that it's not a lot of competition Right. We had a president who tried to take over, basically refused to follow an election. We have a legislative branch that basically can't get anything done in the level of vitriol and kind of just sheer stupidity in Congress is unprecedented. For the most part, the judicial branch has done a pretty good job. These people have lifetime tenure, they care about their jobs. Does it concern me that the Supreme Court has taken so long to decide an immunity issue which is really baseless and frivolous. It does. So, I'm hoping that they will stand up for the law and for the fact that a president doesn't, isn't immune from committing a crime. Um God, I feel like the voice of doom here. But, but, but time will tell, I'm sorry for that guy. Drinking more wine. I know I'm a huge do. Yeah, when we get off stage, then the sun will come out. Um, so EJ and you shared your story about five years ago. Um Where do you see the Me Too Movement today? How has it evolved? Where do you think it's going? Where do you think it should go? So, what is, where is, what going? The Me Too movement? Oh, I think women will. I think we've made huge strides in the last 200 years. We've made even faster strides in the last 100 years. We've made enormous strides since the sixties. I think we are going to keep going. I I think this is a blip. I think this is a blip. Um, I think we move on because I don't think there's any stopping. Look at this room, these women are making a huge difference. Right. This room could rule America as far as I'm concerned. So, no, I feel very, very positive. I think that we, we're going to go on. This is, uh, uh, I don't think we're gonna be stopped. I really don't. We just have to really work hard to help our sisters in the South. Uh getting rights back over their own bodies. That's a little, I think we can get that accomplished. If Mrs uh Melinda Gates in the room, I believe she can help us do that. That we uh we're serious women and a serious woman is an extremely powerful entity. And when we get together like this, I am really stirred. I mean, I didn't even eat my bread. I mean, that's uh it's very stirring to be in a group like this. It can be done. The thing is never to despair. Never despair. Always stay positive to, to be able to pull off. We got to pull off. That's how we won the case guys. You just heard it. Exactly. Despair. Thank you everyone. So let's talk about your $83 million. So you haven't gotten it just yet. Is that? That's right. That's correct. Not a penny but Eugene, you've talked a little bit about this. Before. About what are your plans? Oh, well, I'm going to give it to you everything that Donald Trump hates. He doesn't want, he stacks the Supreme court with the conservative justices who take away women's rights over their own bodies. I am going to put as much as I can to gain women's rights back over our own bodies. I'm going to give it to, uh, making sure women can become, uh, lawyers, uh, particularly mothers who have, uh would like to have some scholarship assistant. Um And uh those are my two main driving also because he doesn't have a dog. I want to give something to the, to the A P. That's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking and, and, and I personally, I'm going to buy a toaster. That's exciting. Oh my gosh. So you could definitely use a toaster. I could use a toaster. That'll be an exciting day. So, you know, as we talked about Trump is still the nominee, what do you think it would take to actually stop him or bring him down? Can anything? I mean, the one thing that can bring him down are the votes of the American people in the next election. I, I don't think short of that anything can or will, but we still have our democracy. We still have the power to vote in every goddamn excuse my language. Every single one of us needs to get out and get to everyone. They know and make sure we all vote and talk to all the women who, who they may not say it publicly, you know, in, in to their friends or to their husband, but they know in their hearts that he's a sick dude and then he shouldn't be president of the United States ever again. And that's what they need to do. You agree? What Robbie said? Yes. Actually, women could actually win this election. It's really, women could do it. I mean, women could do it. Black women, particularly in the 2020 election stepped up. And I think, uh, now I think the suburban mothers and the suburban women should step up in this election. Wow. Well, this ties into that. What can the women in this room do to make this country a safer and more equitable place for women? Well, we could all wear shoes like yours. Thank you. Anything else? Yeah. Hold them up. They're great shoes. Oh, they're, they're from ad VF sample sale. So, Robbie, what do you think? I think we have to stick together. I think there's so much in our society that's so divisive right now that there's just so, and there are so many people including foreign countries who are trying to divide us and don't think that it's not, that's not happening, it is happening. And we have to kind of keep our eye on the ball and our eyes on the prize. Keeping our democracy is a really big deal for our country and for the world. And we all have to just see that and try to the to the greatest extent we can to let all the, all the noise out there kind of stay noise and, and make sure that we, that Donald Trump does not become President United States again and that we stay on this path. This great experiment in democracy continues for our Children and our children's Children. Well, thank you both so much. Thank you.