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JP Morgan CEO on the Decade Ahead

December 19, 2019 18:29 PM UTC
- Updated February 18, 2020 15:56 PM UTC

Jamie, Thank you so much for doing this. Uh, i'll tell you, and I'll tell the group we did a survey of Fortune 500 CEOs earlier this year. And we said, who other than yourself do you most admire what CEO do you most admire? You tied for first place? Why do you think that is? I have no idea. I know you can get. I didn't forgive myself, so you shouldn't say that. Well, look, 11 arguably one. You don't have any idea why people would say that I don't arguably 11 reason would be would be survival. I mean, if you go back to before the financial crisis, all the other CEOs of big banks around the world with a couple of exceptions. John Stump was here Monday, are gone. All right, So what do you How do you account for that? I hope you're welcome, everybody. And, uh, I hope it J. P. Morgan, we've tried not just before the crisis, during the crisis after crisis to serve our client server communities for new loans around the world, by the way. So we operated over 100 countries. Well, you know, in the old of banks a lot. Well, Barbara did the same thing and try to deal with the issues while serving the client out there. A lot of political, legal regulatory issues. But we're also making sure we're trying to serve the consumer client digital client, Small business client, the middle market in 2000 Hamlets around the world. And that's what you're in your trust, respect and our clients are quite if you actually surveyor clients customers that's never been higher. Never been higher, even higher. I remind people that J. P. Morgan Way were a port of safety in this dorm. We did not need tarp money. We both bear Stearns. We ask to be punished pretty severely, Ford since then, so we've always tried to do do the right thing. Admit our mistakes, of course, made plenty like other people, but but we weren't failing. But you've been hit with what's the grand total of fines and 30 35 billion. You must know a big portion of that Bear Stearns and Wanda unfortunately, and so you can argue whether we should have a could. I don't think we should have, but the government felt otherwise. So we settled. Moved on before you have the London whale. Well, the London whale is a completely different thing. Okay, The London whale. We made a mistake. You know, we and we confessed it almost immediately, which is we didn't have the proper risk controls around a function somewhere. I said publicly, right. Start. Best strategy. Barely vetted. Billy reported really controlled guilty. We lost our shareholders money. No one died. Nothing happened. He had a record year, and then we were punished by regulators. And again, you know, you punished by regular five regulation punished us, not one which is very atypical on it was, I think, a 1,000,000,005 in total. I don't think we should have paid a big five fine. And I think that, you know, I think the regular slap their hand for having inadequate risk controls there. But they charge my share another five and other things. It's like a speeding ticket. You're just paying one. You're paying the county, the state, that it isn't right that the proportion of the punishment should fit the problem. And, you know, I just think it's become a little blown every portion. That's a perfect example of that. So one of the big issues that came up after the financial crisis was, Is it a good idea to have these financial institutions that are so important you can't let them fail and and you and HSBC or now at the top of that list of systemically important institutions, would you prefer to be off that list? Is there you know, we we live in a time when H P is splitting into alco is splitting into. We had a session on that whole question yesterday. Would it be better to get out of the sites of the regulators and break into a few smaller piece? So that's not a too big to fill this. That's a global systemic risk. We have to hold more capital. I think things should be allowed to fail. Okay. And if you look at with the doing, a resolution recovered. Its essential failure for the American public should have been called bankruptcy for big, dumb banks. Let him fail fire the board fired, imagine clawback stock, dismantle the company, do it in a way that doesn't damage the taxpayer with economy. That is what that have been done yet way that didn't damage the taxpayer or the time. I think that all these things are getting their first. We'll never gonna fail. But all these things are getting that That's what they're trying to get done and put in place in the old days, the F B A c was able to do that. They did have the major banks when the world became global. Honestly, they just weren't totally prepared for the size of the company. Regarding the global systemically, we're trying to get a little bit smaller, but you gotta look at business and we're not gonna fail. And I don't mind Holy more capital. You gotta look a business from the standpoint of the customer, not in the Stanford of us. The reason we reported safe in the storm a battleship, a fortress, the Rock of Gibraltar. We will large, diversified, strong. We always had Lexus capital access security. We always stress tested our company. Not quite The diligence we're doing today under the office is dead. But that is the strength. And then why do we do? And we've earned good returns all these years. We have actually earned good returns. We're talking about earning good returns. And I told the world. That may be a record year again, I think three or four of the last five and next year depends what happens. Maybe record here because the client happy the branches served private banks by private client small business clients or middle mark points in the consumer court. And you serve them better because you do it all under one umbrella because we get presumably the reason you're in business over the clients. Better, faster, quicker, cheaper there more than one model. Our model works. If you look a market shares profitability growth. We're gaining sheer in almost every business. We've never had higher customer satisfaction and so that it works and Global Corp investment banking thing that causes the most concern out. There are 100 different countries. That also is a very sound company we like in Asia. Last quarter, Rocky was Asia. Rocky. I think we had a record quarter. Brazil, Brazil doing not great. We're doing fine. We're very careful about trying to serve our clients. Remember those countries, basically corporations and the governments and the sovereign funds and the central banks in a which processors that they need. We don't force them to buy things, but they do include FX and derivatives and market making and loans and trade finance. And so we're doing a good job for the client. That's why were there. So I travel the world. These clients are very happy with J. P. Morgan. They want more of J. P. Morgan. They were more of our capital. More of our brains were capability. They want to make more than institutions. They want more research. And we spend a $1,000,000,000 in research educating the world about companies and countries. That's what we do. So every company that raises money doesn't voluntarily. Every investor who buys yourself to us doesn't voluntarily pretty. Don't do these kind of pretty clear you're happy with the model. Yeah, yeah. So talk a little bit about how banking has changed and it's worked. So I'm not. This is not a fantasy. Yeah, look at the numbers. It's worked. So you could do your own analysis. And even even the guy from Goldman who wrote the thing has said You're right. It's work case closed. So talk about how, by the way, I have no problem. If it didn't work to look at alternatives. Zero talk about how banking has changed since the crisis. It's a different business. Well, let's talk about what hasn't changed, Okay? Consumer walks in a branch, open deposit account. Get a credit card or debit card. They might need a mortgage. They might need investments. That hasn't changed. You want to do a good job, A lot more rules and regulations around it. Some summer, good summer bureaucratic. But whatever it is, the middle market company, small business, same thing. And Lord corporation, they need equity, any debt they need derivatives, mostly straight swaps and effects. They need effects. They need trade, finance, the advice around the world. Those things haven't changed. There's been a tremendous amount of change around legal regulatory reporting, uh, things like that, which all the banks really have any feeling. And how many people have you added to your staff to deal with? I think I think we said, like, 30,000. That's compliance regulatory. All these very defensive made you safer. Some of it, some of it. I think you look for your $2 a thing, so I don't say they're old bag, you know, some of actually things you might have been any way that, you know, I think it makes sense for regular tow. Always improve. Make the company better every day. Just like I walk it every day. I don't defend the past. I say make it better going forward, which often means you're changing the past, which is a known acknowledgment that made you doing wasn't perfect. So some of these things capital, liquidity, transparency those are bold. Made the system safer. Would you give, you know, 50 50% has been helpful? More than 50% less than 50% I Look, I don't know. I mean, you gotta say which ones are really important. Which ones are certain things I don't think very important. Take a tremendous about time and effort. So and so is more boys than bad, you know? Honestly, it is what it is like the regular. Tell me, Get over, Jamie. Just do it. And I say Yes, sir. Okay. Don't look here. Another. Another thing that's changed is that we've been in an environment now for seven years, and it looks like it could go on for some time of zero. Interest rates never happened before in our history. Totally unprecedented. has tohave some unintended consequences. Where do you see this going? And and is it going to come back to bite us in some way? So I think, uh, the better way to look at America is actually doing quite fine, and we're going to in two and 1/2 percent. We've had a 10 million employees jobs, most in the private sector. 142 million people work 122 million, I think in the private sector, the consumers down. She's mostly completely corrected. Cos you're in great shape. Small, medium and large. How did you turn the corner? Household formations going up. We're doing okay. We always should have done better. And, you know, I think we would have done better. Have we had a real fiscal reform? Immigration reform like Chuck Schumer, Senator Schumer, Senator, came reform trade policy was doing, I think will accelerate the kind those things look. So make it better. We all know it's gotta be better, because too many people still not benefiting from this recovery, which I agree so on. And then it also America still has the best hand ever dealt of anyone anywhere, and people should remember that. I don't say this. I hate unapologetically American. I said around the world, we've got Canada, Mexico. His neighbors go to China. They're surrounded by people. Aren't we have the greatest military Barry's ever built the Atlantic to Pacific. We've got a great rule law, low corruption, the best markets that in the cooling venture. Come on, We've got best innovation. We've got huge work ethic, best universities. We got a pretty good hand. Just make it work better. We'll come back, we'll come back to making it work better. But the financial effects of zero interest rates Yeah, there will be unintended consequences. We don't know what they are, so I'm not gonna guess here. Maybe certain assets are higher than we've been. Certain rates are lower, but savers, conversely, simple economics says when you reduce the rate savings, people consume work or vice versa, you could make a coherent argument that if you're a saver now, we've been retire. You have to save more money to have the same income. So may have had a version. I think in hindsight, I would say Ben Bernanke junior will do a book on this. Looking back in big data that will be unintended consequences. Having said that, I think you know what they did. We want to do Old Maid, the economy. Americans recovered much better. Another folks, thank you so much better shape. And, you know, going back to normal is a good thing. I think we should go back to normal. I let the said, I don't really kill this December, Martin. You're all wasting your time and your breath talking with all the time. You know the fact is America doing fine? Normalization is a good thing. Normalization, not the same, is tightening. Okay, it's not. It's not old banking works differently cause all these rules and regulations, and that we all want normalization. And when the Fed has said, we normalize, it's a good thing and, you know, you eliminate the extra from Monterey Pocket. May the unintended consequence may start being large in the small ones, and I think I'll create more certainty when they raise rates, not less certain. Another thing that's another thing that's changed sides. But another thing. Have you have you met anyone anywhere around the world ever? Who says a raise of 25 basis points or 50 basis points is gonna kill me. Of course not. But if they said that your next response to be your irresponsible I mean, this has been well, so it's more of a psychological thing and kind of a technical monetary positive. And it is the war economic rates going up. It's not the psychological. The psychological component, it seems, would argue for doing what you said you were gonna do. I think so. But again, I let the Fed they have better data. They have to make their own judgments, and, uh, but I do think it reduce uncertainty. So the other thing that's changed is cybersecurity. You hired 15,000 people to deal with compliance. You've probably heard as many to deal with cyber security. No, we spent $5 million a year. That number's gonna triple in three or four double three or four years. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. You know, banks and defense goes quite good at it, you know? So you know. But a lot of people aren't, and it's not just about perimeter control, which is very simplistic is about inside the company past changing your passcodes, having who has authority to touch what systems Having trip wires, algorithms that catch any suspicious behavior, monitoring your employees with the upload. What they download, where they go, what time they enter buildings looking for suspicious behavior. And we duel those things now. And but it is an ongoing battle that's going on for the rest of our lives. I don't know how and the government got be involved. Okay? It needs to be portrayed in these report of how we all handle stuff on. Do you know if people think it's not gonna be years? It will be really serious. And this feeling of I P is not a minor issues. At one point, people say That's it. You know, we're not doing a B and C anymore. So So it's a big deal. And members not just for us think of grids aircraft, which are probably, unless well protected than you are. There are live things out there. We're joined, protected at all. Okay. And if you don't think your company's been invaded, you're wrong. So you said in your annual shareholders letter, which I understand you, right? I mean, you may be the only person other than Warren Buffett who actually does that exercise every year. But you said silicone Valley is coming. What do you mean? It meant that they believe in competition. I believe we were great use of technology after years. Like we already banked 20 million people in this. You could move FX, and this will be able to interest rate swaps. And you could do investment. You do so many things that were huge, User. We do our own cloud their own virtual reality and number. Dr. Virtual, uh, controls people can access our systems, but you're gonna have competition. So Silicon Valley obviously will read about in tech and might do simple. Some will compete with some will collaborate with. So we think we do a better job. You know, we're not slowing down flat. I'm not terrified, but we study everything I've been doing my whole life. There is nothing that people don't do that we study from top to bottom in a very detailed level. Like included. How many of you when you Google apple? Amazon Venmo meant all these things push that thing that I agree. The old after carefully reading you all doing any red state way had people go through all those contracts, top to bottom. Okay, All of them. How that information is being shared, what rights they have when aggregators goes, the screen scrapes and then what they do with that information, Okay, And a lot of information is widely marketed. Why you used in your dog's name, your house? Name, your second car name and where you go on how you go, what you buy when you go to sleep, where you stay up hotels you goto Russians, goto and probably even who you with at the time. That's a lot of stuff out there, folks, and so so to me, way get very diligent, trying to the right thing for our clients on protect ourselves and protect their something's about banking that still seem awfully backward in this world of technology. I mean, I refinance my house last year and it wasn't your bank, so but it took five months. I mean, they should be able to in the in the world of big data. You ought to be able to figure out if I'm creditworthy in about two minutes. We might have I'm gonna quote you the next way we find it, we can figure out whether you're creditworthy. Within two minutes, a mortgage is different. There are thousands of federal, state and local requirement mortgages. Documentation about appraisals about your incomes there, tons of forms. It's every different regulations is a lot. We're trying to do it right is a lot of stuff and causing slowdowns. But we have to do it right. We're going to a right look. Att how we get punished yet? Another. Fine. Yeah, So it is. Some people do a much better job. You know, we unfortunately had we did. This case did have antiquated. We did antiquated systems. One of mistakes. I made buying baritones, Mama, which is huge in the mortgage business and chase. In a way. All three had bed mortar systems. So we had a deal of three bad mortgage systems in 09 and 2010. And and, you know, we're consolidating them was taken a while, and so it will be automated. Much more will get much better, become simpler. They'll be utilities. That makes some of things work better. We just haven't gotten around to that. You said your research really have a lot of banks are cut way back on mortgage. You really need me out here. Do you know? You said you're researching everything. Can you? Can you? Uh how about the Blockchain? We had a whole session this morning on on on Bitcoin Blockchain. Where it's going. What? It could mean the payment system. What do you use separate currency from Black Train? Okay, Currency. My belief is not gonna be virtual currencies that they may be small. What's the first thing the government doesn't reforms itself? Prints money, It creates currency. Why did governments create currency? Come on. That's Rick question. They like to control it. The central bank like the cultural, the supply. They're also general election. Where is where it goes? Who's got It's called MLB. Stuff like that. So you know what? Now you have a lot of politician on those that need I support technology. They will not support major currencies that go around borders. They don't have the same control. Not gonna happen. Just not gonna happen, Okay? It may be small bite, and then Okay, I think Bitcoins like $2 billion of $3 billion. We move six trillion a day. Okay, so you put it So the second the Blockchain is a technology like any other technology. If it's cheaper, effective, it works, it's secure than gold to use it. Is it we don't know we're part of. We're studying it and and some people think so in some known the security parts of big deal to me. So if you said put certain documents out there in certain ownership and make a trip, that's all fine Member already gets done. You already get done in various different things privately, which somebody want probably. And the question is, is it better, cheaper and more secure if it is, people use the Blockchain. I don't consider that mystical to use a different technology to do something. If it works like that life spending a lot of time looking into way have ah, study group looking at which I think most banks do at this point. So, by the way, may be very good for certain things like loans. Lot of documentation hard to transfer. Uh, takes still 20 days, let alone a lot of paperwork, but it may not be as important for something already has electrification like equities, so you will see over time. But it actually makes sense for and where it plays out. So we spent the last three days talking about a series of topics that cut across industries. One is the rapid pace of technological change and the disruption that causes. John Chambers sat in this chair and told the audience that 40% of their companies would be gone in 10 years. Then we talked a lot about culture and the importance of human systems that can both withstand those hurricane force changes and adapts to them. And we talked a lot about the changing role of leadership in getting to the destination in that disruptive environment. How do you think about this? You know, first, I think it's true that technology is faster and faster and faster. Technology is the thing that changed the world, starting from agriculture. But the medication animals printing, the Bible, the steam engine. So technology has always been the main driver changes in society, you know, and it's more true today. It's moving faster. The accumulation of data, the speed, you know, it's it's a good thing in general, it enhances mankind. You know what people could get done and how they can accomplish. Even in agriculture, they've been talking for years, and we know improving agriculture. It still had one or 2% Crockett for year after year after year, a new technology that can water and fertilized by square yard. You know which one. It's all these wonderful things it has. And yes, you've got to be complete prepared for it. And so all companies need really diligent people from, you know, in Tech and Ops who and not always taken on. By the way, it's the use of tech in ops, so very often in sales and marketing. That's a strategy decision. Absolutely so. So somebody players in Silicon Valley, with their great at it technical. They do that well. It's also the kind of fun to back reducing the pain points making if they have to get it online. Where's I say, banks? We sometimes perfect, creating pain points. Do you want we want didn't get through them that way we could do a certain thing literally in two minutes, but may take 15 days to close alone. We have to sign for documents from one. We've been sufficient. So how do you get your people to say you know what way don't want you tow rig people for documents we wanted. We are like that were diligently study everybody else. We know what we're doing. We're changing. Our systems were doing things faster. We're and we've been doing it a whole lot. Of how about forcing that change down into there? So you came to J. P. Moore. You went any business and you ask, you get a list of all those projects date, timeline, dates and the buying of all the people straight through processing. Get it online. And it said number one mobile website. At least that's so is ranked number one. You can deposit checks, you can move money we're gonna allow. We're building a system allows people move money, real time between not just between chase, but between chasing. The banks were building all the things that customers want. That part of the chase payment announcement that you it wasn't part of chase pay now, but it will be. Hopefully, it will eventually embedded in chase. So can a bank can any bank, given that you have competition, this payments, it's a land grab. Basically, somebody's trying to get the mobile payments first. Can a bank do that? Given that people want something that works across across institutions across platforms. Yeah, because affordable. We want your customer of ours that you couldn't You could take your phone out and you can click on apple pay if you want or chase pay if you want or inside a store app. They may offer chase pay so you can use your card, your debit, your bank account and what you want and with friendly to you that you would you want. And you can use the same thing to move money. Peter P. And So you know and we want You will do it, by the way, not just on mobile, but online and in the store. So we're just trying to build these things. They're great for customers that make it easier for customers and and and banks. You know, some of the bank systems out there, particularly one called a CH, is antiquated. I have a real problem. Daesh H and I think it's like create the biggest gap for the fintech guys out there to go after that. It's slow, it's antiquated of them. Enough controls in it, and I would spend a $1,000,000,000 of my own sister had to. So I think the bank's way need after better payments used by people out there. And we're gonna come up with things that make it much easier. So you could do it. Um, Uncle Banks, as opposed to one thing. One. Open it up for questions. But but one. I want to ask you first question about politics because you've already expressed your frustration about lack of fiscal reform, lack of immigration reform, lack of of a sufficient progress on the on the trade front. What do you think it's going to take to get a functioning government and watching? Look, I, uh, when I was saying, is that we have a great hand, but we have these issues that you just raise anything important. And had we gotten a lot done, I think we'll be growing a lot a lot faster, and it would be attacking that wage inequality problem. Create more well so you could come up with better, probably better educator, inner city school kids. That is important for society. I wish I can not up to me. The more collaboration, I think, the scapegoating, finger pointing, making fun of people. That's not the way I want to live. I don't think least productive outcomes. So you said wage inequality. I agree. It's a problem. Talk about your picture. I'd say, Well, you can't be faster. I am raising minimum wages is fine. I think it should be kind of state by state. You don't cause problems. I think, a better earned income tax credit Brothers from Warren Buffett so that people are better incentive there actually paid toe work. Works a good thing so we can redesign that, Uh, I think education and education the point of education is to give his opportunity. So when they get out from the high school here, they could both get a job so they locally they get a certificate that means something and or go on to college or do about game that that in inner city is not. Generally a lot of you went to high school wasn't a problem. College wasn't problem, but in inner cities, collides with 50% of kids don't graduate, so provide opportunity to America's important part. And the sad part is there may be a Steve Jobs for Barack Obama in that group, and we'll never know. You didn't give him that opportunity and it's a shame for America to allow to go on. And, you know, I also say why we ring the alarm bell. Why are wide? It was at a company. I'd be banging that along with the meaning. Seven. Every morning, seven days a week until we got a way are raking. In some ways, we are raining. That's what Donald Trump and their education educational. But more broadly we are ringing the alarm. Everyone was. We're fed up with this, and so they're going to extreme solutions. You know what people should say is it is a problem. Let's get the people in a room that could come up with real solutions. Who's tried that? Who is the current political? Who do you see out there on the You know, you've been involved in politics? Watch politics. I'm not gonna do quite a good you've got it in the patent. Guys do enough job commenting in politics. Leave it to you. You don't You will never been shy about Some politicians have tried. I mean, Schumer and McCain had an immigration village I think was voted on by the Senate. It was a great bill. The trade thing was, I think, a thing of people working together, which would be Avery between for America and other things. They may have to wait or not. We'll see. I just don't know you don't. But I know I'm a candidate at this point. You will. At some point, I might Questions comment. Nina Nina, Eastman Fortune. So, Jamie, just to follow up on the politics populist sentiment, as we know, is rabbit in this country, it's really sort of a modern times high and in the crosshairs. Our CEO pay and Wall Street banks. If you were sitting there with Bernie Sanders, what would you say to him? I'm not gonna comment on any individual candidate. Many times you ask me. Look, I completely understand that after the crisis that the American public story problem they suffered, and generally they looked at two culprits Washington and Wall Street. In general, it wasn't specifically true. Not everyone in Washington every Wall Street, J. P. Morgan, you need tarp. But when the banks got bailed out and worked with a lot of company, it offended me too. Just so you know. Okay, so I understand the anger, the only thing I can do is do the best I can for my clients, every community, every school, every hospital, every consumer, every corporation, every government, we bank 100 governments around the world were satisfying them and that one day we and maybe the industry learned back more with respect. But that's all we can do. Our proxy service is air necessary and required. If people have concerns about the issues of them, then we should do with those concerns. Specifically, not not. Doesn't have to be genetic. Well, we'll need to raise one, which is pay, which is a big part of of the public conversation. That's okay, that's that's to me. That's more populist rhetoric than a solution. You have any thoughts on what it is, and it's really gone beyond banking. I mean, you could there numerous polls that show in this country certainly trust in businesses trust in media trust. The media's pretty slow to trust in the church. You think I was trusting you trust in the government trust in police and you know I'm not gonna blame anyone here, but we've denigrated just but everybody there is out there so trusting everyone down here that's not the point. Stop scapegoating and finger pointing, having simplistic arguments that just aren't true. The world's not binary, you know. It's not like it's not a zero sum game and their solutions to every single problem. And you know, when we could talk about specific solutions. But that's what we should be focusing on. What? Why don't you run for office? I'm not suited for office. Why on by why aren't you sitting for office? Because I'm not. Look at me. Yeah, question right here. So we had this whole discussion today about Bitcoins and digital currencies and so on. How do you see when that becomes a shadow system where you have, like you said before? And I told you, agree with your assessment that the governments would try to stop the currency being a bit coin currency, but be a technology, but they would be entrepreneurs who would kind of run a shadow economy system based on Bitcoin. So how would you see that play out? It's just not gonna happen. You're wasting your time. So you think that when the DOJ Colston says that's a legal currency is God's laws? United States Atlantic Do it again. We'll put you in jail. It's over. So you really don't know if that will be my personal opinion? There will be no riel, non controlled currency in the world. There's no government that's gonna put up with it for long. Anybody, it's kind of cute. Now. A lot of the centers and Congress's say I support Silicon Valley innovation. There will be no currency that gets around government control. Anybody here? When I take a on opposite view, the technology will be used. It may even be used to transport currency, but it would be US dollars digital, right? But with the right digital currency will be stopped. A virtual currency where it's called a Bitcoin was the U. S. Dollar. These things may be very well for cheap transfers of money. Anyone on that on that topic? Other topics right here, please. What do you think about the Euro currency? That historians have found out that all currency union since the middle age have failed? Where there was no unified government over there and now in Europe, that makes remakes the experiment now to have a car to save it, which is not that no central government and no perspective that the local governments will give up the authorities. How do you see the future? Let me put this one in perspective because when Europe got together to form the eurozone, I think is probably the greatest accomplishments of mankind ever. It was an amazing thing that all those countries after centuries of war, not just World War Two and, well one Napoleonic wars Frankel Pressure wars, 100 years of war, a War of the Roses 30 year war got together and you think you can hold hands. Let's learn to live in peace. So that part is really good. Having a common market one big common market like the United States has is a very good objective. And those two things still exist. The currency. And when you read history, I wasn't there. The people pushed it all the time. The currency was an effort to make it irreversible. Some people wrote about it. We have being a negative, never worked like Milton Friedman, et cetera. And maybe in hindsight, the currency was negative. There is no going back that isn't a disaster. And I think that the politicians in Europe are making a devoted effort to make this thing work, and by the way, the right thing to do is try to make it work and maybe building mechanisms that someone can leave. If they don't get on board and you're right, they have to have some kind of That's what they have. Central bank E C B and the single resolution mechanism for banks. And so they do have to put some cross European controls in place to make it hard for the government's. So it is really hard. I'm not denying that it does great risk. I'm not denying that they really don't have a choice. A break up of the euro today, in my opinion, will cause a depression so you can talk about all you want. It's a bad idea, Jamie Last question. The people in this audience are dealing with a lot of the same forces and changes that you're dealing with. You may get a stronger dose of it than then they do. What's one overarching piece of advice you would give, you know? Don't be so damned depressed. I mean, America is doing better. We got a lot of things to fix the world, to grow a lot next 10 2030 years is over. Overreaction to short term things all the time. Now everyone coming Risk experts in, 09 years ago that black you know, the Black Swan's men, they're everywhere were scared of her own shadow. At this point, move on the world. Be fine. Let's have good smart politics and the world be twice as big and 15 years and twice as big again, and we're gonna lift another two or three billion people out of poverty.