Fortune Innovation Forum 2025

As travel and hospitality undergo profound shifts, Shangri-La stands at the intersection of legacy and reinvention. How is the brand reimagining luxury through innovation, sustainability, and human connection–while staying true to its heritage of Asian hospitality? A conversation on the future of travel and the kind of purposeful leadership needed to navigate workplace transformation across countries.

Beyond Boundaries: Reinventing Hospitality and Leadership

Conferences

U.S. tariffs on Chinese imports are forcing a rethink of global trade routes—and triggering a wave of economic repositioning. Countries like India, Vietnam, Brazil, and Malaysia are emerging as alternative production hubs, while Japan and South Korea deepen trade talks with China and the Gulf States channel investment into Southeast Asia. This moment isn't just about shifting geopolitics—it's a strategic inflection point for companies under pressure to diversify, de-risk, and move fast. How can agile firms navigate this fragmented landscape to discover new opportunities for long-term growth?

New Corridors for Growth

We'll now turn to a shift that many companies are feeling firsthand the search for new corridors of growth. Supply chains are being reconfigured. Companies are reassessing where their products are designed, built, and shipped from, and market access now depends on making the right call about where to invest, build, and bet next. This section looks at what's driving those moves and how companies can position themselves early. Before the next wave of competition arrives, please join me in welcoming Nick Nash, co-founder and managing partner at Asia Partners, and Dato Cu Haiwang, president of the Malaysia Semiconductor Industry Association. They will be in conversation with Fortune's Nick Gordon. So great to have both of you on our stage. Um, SH Wong, I wanna, I wanna start with you because you work in semiconductors, chips, probably one of the world's most important industries right now, strategic commodity. You know, um, like super important for things like not just AI but also electric vehicles, but also it's an industry that's definitely been hit by, you know, tariffs, industrial policy, subsidies in some countries. Kind of give us your big picture view of how the chip industry and Malaysia's chip industry is kind of looking at this more complicated world. OK, thank you very much. Um, as you know, the, uh, Semiconductor is now the new oil or the data, whatever you want to call it, uh, it is ubiquitous and it is everywhere all around the world in every gadget anything you can see it here, there is a semi-reductor inside. Um, as you know, last year, the global semiconductor, uh, revenue was $600 billion US dollars. It's projected to grow to $1 trillion by 2030. And in fact, the latest report was out and SIA thinks that it will reach 1 trillion by 2027. So for Malaysia, we are exporting 601 billion ringgit last year. And in order for us to stay where we are today, we are ranked number 6 in the world, 13th in the assembly test capacity. We need to ship 1.2 trillion by 2030. So that's the challenge. So as a result of this growth, you know, uh, driven mainly by data centers, AI, EVs and cloud, and so on, computing and so on, we're going to see tremendous growth in this area. So, however, now with the geopolitical tension, And with the uh tariffs and earlier was uh the COVID. A lot of interruptions happened to the supply chain and you can see that there is what I call um probably the companies need to now navigate through all this uh no China, no Taiwan and China plus one US plus one Europe plus one. All the company has to navigate through all these uh disruptions. So as you can see, Uh, the ASEAN and Malaysia benefited from this China plus one strategy because China could not ship to the US and therefore they need to find a way what to do and so you start looking outside of China and they, a lot of them look at Malaysia. So Malaysia basically benefited from this. I'm sure uh Vietnam and so on. And, and then because of this tremendous growth, we have many countries. India is one of them, very aggressively pursuing semiconductor, and we have many other countries around the world are looking at what can they contribute to the semiconductor growth, either in technology or in volume or in the design development. So everybody is after this spider. It's going to be a competitive race right now? Yeah, and I do want to get back to kind of what how you think Malaysia's progress towards putting itself into the supply chain is going, but before I do that, Nick, you know, from your vantage point at Asia Partners, kind of how are you looking at this kind of new, more, more complicated world? Well, I think one of the most interesting statistics that's bubbled up over the last 6 months is that China's exports to America have fallen by 20%. And its exports to ASEAN have grown by 20%, and that symmetry is fascinating to us. We feel that in this, shall we call it, dual circulation world, actually China and ASEAN grow ever more close together, and it will be fascinating to find opportunities as we are actively trying to Asia partners, not just to see goods leave China and come to Southeast Asia, which has all sorts of political ramifications, but goods leave South. Asia and going to China, for example, one of our portfolio companies called Khyber specializes in exporting from ASEAN into China. How often do you hear about that? But what I would tell you is this is an extraordinarily interesting moment for China and Southeast Asia to do more business together because they're both confronting the US trade war simultaneously. And and what are some of the kind of new corridors that you're seeing in terms of trade or investment, you know, not just China. but say ASEA Latin America. I know you were at sea in a previous life and C keeps on talking about how Shope is surprisingly big in Latin America, but also, you know, Gulf in Southeast Asia, maybe South Asia and Southeast Asia. What are these new corridors that you're seeing growing from Southeast Asia to other parts of the quote unquote global South? Well I think there's always a tendency to think in geographic terms, but I think sometimes it's helpful to change the dimensions on the chart, you know, electrical. Engineers are very, very comfortable with going from time space to frequency space, so to speak, with the Fourier transform in a similar way. Let's think about it through two different lenses. Yes, of course you can have ASEAN in Latin America and that's done very well for Shopee and for C Money, but let me give you two other lenses. The first is the income tier. We like to think about the world in the give or take 2000 to 4000 income range, the 4000 to 8000. The 8000 to 16 and so on and so forth, we tend to find that if you're in one of those slices. 2 to 44 to 88 to 16, you have a significantly easier time doing business in other parts of the world that are similar to that. I don't know if you're earning 8 $800,000 a year as an AI engineer in Silicon Valley if you have much socioeconomic empathy for the consumer need in a 6000 per year country like many in Southeast Asia. That's a big part of what's made Shopee and see. Successful, they're going after somewhat similar economies affluence wise, but the second quarter that doesn't get enough conversation as well, and again it's very different than the usual sort of headlines, is temporal trade, meaning what was a good idea 10 years ago that we can apply now here. It's a really neat little bit of history and it's almost too cute to be believable, but Amazon, everyone's heard of that, went public in 1997. Alibaba.com. The first major e-commerce platform from China went public exactly 10 years later in 2007, and Shope went public exactly 10 years later in 2017. So as much as we talk about here to there and tariff from here, tariff to there, let's not lose sight of that socioeconomic trade and also the temporal trade in terms of taking an idea from the past that might work very well in a new soil in the present. Um, SH Wong, I want to go back to you. You know, one of my favorite like historical tidbits is that Penang was the home of Intel's first non-US plant. Malaysia's had a long history in the chip supply chain, but now it's, you know, now Malaysia kind of wants to, you know, move more into higher value services or higher value parts of this chain, whether it's design or it be advanced packaging. And there's a lot of kind of money being put behind that, but kind of what's your sense of the progress that's being made in terms of taking on more of the chip supply chain in Malaysia and kind of what still needs to be done? OK, I think maybe I can just have a quick tutorial on history. Um, in 1972, uh, we have this so-called 8 samura with this Intel, AMD, Hewlett Packard, and HP and a few others. Uh, set up the the companies in Penang, OK, and since then, They they started because of uh low cost and so on. But since then, um, the whole industry has moved all the way from assembly to test automation to EMS. In fact, now we have everything, right? We have also uh IC design and the wafer fab and so on. However, we are more concentrated in assembly test. So that's why I said we grew at that time in 1972, about 230 million to now 600 billion last year and this year we until September, the growth is 16.7% over 2024. So last year, The government announced the national semiconductor strategy and to me that is the best news that we have got from the government when they announced that strategy because it is really setting and they spelling out their ambition, their aspiration for the country. What do you want to be after all this growth? What should we be? And so they came up with two key things I would say. One is to have 10 companies. Uh, create 10 companies or at least grow 10 companies in advanced packaging and IC design. That's number 1. And number 2 is to uh have 100 companies who have revenue of 1 billion over the next 5 to 10 years. So that is what is stated. At the same time, we are talking about now made in Malaysia to made by Malaysia because we are trying to tell all the companies that we are good users of technology. We are not involved in innovation and developing new technologies, and we want to move our Malaysian companies into doing that. So today in the automation environment of precision engineering environment, we have a few, a handful, which in Malaysia, we call it big, probably in the world we will be very small, but we want it to be big so that they can become global champions and we are trying to build that and Malaysia has this ambition to build that. So getting on to uh IC design, today we have one company who is capable of doing IC product, product level instead of services and uh I think they have more than 40 IPs already, so we show that we have the talent who can do it, but of course if you want to accelerate and try to get on into many types of innovation, we need more our world's best talent to help us to do that. But, can I ask you a follow-up question? If you look at semiconductors and what a magnificent sector it is, uh, Dal and I both share a great fondness for the late Andy Grove, who was one of the great pioneers of the industry. The biggest company in the world that everybody knows is Nvidia. It's run by a Taiwanese. The second biggest company is Broadcom. It's run by a Malaysian. Intel is now run by a Singaporean, Malaysian Malaysian, Malaysian born in Malaysia, studied in Singapore. Success has many fathers, as they say. But may I ask a simple question? Whenever the topic of semiconductors arises, inevitably the topic arises. Ah, it's capital intensive. Ah, the paybacks are long, and yet. I looked at this recently. Nvidia's CapE, their PP&E, is far less than 1% of their market cap. Broadcom is likewise very asset light, fabulous. Why don't we have more fabulous high ROIC semi companies in ASEAN when the guys in California who run them are from ASEAN? So I, OK, this is one strategy to go fabulous, because the other strategy is to go vertically integrated. That's more traditional. OK. Uh, so AMD in the early days just could not catch up with Intel because Intel was investing heavily, OK, and always ahead of the power curves. Every time there is a ramp. Intel take all the market share because they have the capacity, whereas AMD do not have. And so AMD decided to go fabulous and now you have Nvidia, you have Broadcom all going fabulous. There's one strategy, OK, but the other strategy is to take control of your own destiny. So I think it's up to the company to decide. So Malaysia can't do the vertically integrated. We can do the fabulous one. So we can do the design and development and then we let Others to do the foundry so to speak. Now, Malaysia has to Uh, for FA has to attract FDI because FAT investment is very high. You're talking about billions of dollars depending on what kind of fat, very high-end fat will be more than 10 to $20 billion. Even higher than that will be 30 to $40 billion US dollars, but let's say you're talking about the mid-level could be somewhere about $5 billion US dollars, but then you must think about how I'm going to recover all this money. So, uh, my, our advice to the government is not to get involved with this. Let the let the foreign companies who are rich enough to do this. So we focus on the development side and get. All this done in the foundry. However, in assembly test we can participate in the EMS we can participate. So that's where our positioning is for the time being. I, I want to ask about a couple other cor I mean I mean we talk a lot about trade corridors, but there are also new investment corridors and they kind of where are you seeing kind of investment, new investment flowing from? Where are the new sources of capital for for Asia for ASEAN? Well, first of all, I think we should just call it what it is private. Innovation capital in ASEAN is not currently at an all-time low, but it has reverted at least a dozen years. We quantify this just in the nature of our work as entrepreneurs and investors. We look at how much money is coming into the ecosystem country by country as a region, and I'll tell you something very sobering. Apart from the spike of capital that happened in 2021 and 2022, we all remember that kind of bubble, and every country got a big chunk of it. Our region is underfunded. In fact, the amount of capital coming into ASEAN today, which of course includes Malaysia. Relative to the size of ASEAN's GDP has not been this low since approximately 2012. So as much as we can talk about trade flows, let's hit the nail on the head with the fact in the room, capital flows are low. The only positive of that. Is that investors who come into ASEAN now have less competition, have lower entry prices, and much more humble and hungry entrepreneurs. So that isn't a selling point for ASEAN. I don't know what is. This is probably the best time for capital to be coming into ASEAN. The other corridor that's on my mind is talent, you know, where is talent moving? Where are, where are kind of the world's best employees, the world's best engineers, the world's best founders, where are they going? And I want to, you know, ask SH Wong this question. Like, where do you see kind of the new corridors of talent going? If you are a young, eager engineer in Malaysia, where do you go to school? OK, before I answer that question, can I, oh yes, I talk about the uh investment. Three years ago, uh, a lot of announcements were made in Malaysia. Intel announced a $7.1 billion investment. Uh, Infinion announced a €7 billion investment. AT&S and now €1.7 billion euro investment, TI 15 billion and so on. So we have all these announcements, right, with all these theories, with all this confusion. All these investments are all taking place. So we are getting that through, OK, so that's really good news. It means that they have confidence in the way Malaysia is managed and the stability and so on, the neutral and non-aligned uh position we are taking. Coming to talent, you know, first of all, I must say we have good talent, right? Uh, Malaysia's top talent in the local public inities, they are really good. OK, the company I spoke to that created that developed 40 IPs are all Malaysian engineers, studied locally, not from overseas, but we also have, you know, Engineers who go out last time to England and then to Australia and then to US, I think now back to probably Australia more than other countries, but they also have good talents. However, we are also having so-called uh attraction by other countries on the talent. So Singapore gives ASEAN scholarship and then our people just go there. And if you don't go there with the ASEAN scholarship, they will still hire you and take the our Malaysian talent. Now today it is not just Singapore, we have China, we have Taiwan, we have the rest of the world trying to take our talent. He's telling me that we have the talent. Now, the the the situation is how do we create this Ameri uh this uh Malaysian dream like the American dream and the path that we are going to take to create this uh. Environment whereby you can get all these opportunities in Malaysia, OK, and I want to tell you why all these investments happening and why I think uh with the ambition and the aspiration Malaysia is having, we should be able to attract some of the engineers back because it since 1972 to now, you know, the Malaysians have delivered. Whatever the corporate, whether it is US or other countries have in their performance, OK, and they, all these companies put their latest technology in Malaysia to debug and get it all stabilized before they go high volume. Today it is still happening the same way and why? Because of performance. So I think Malaysia has that capability. So now is to just give that uh narrative and the uh aspiration that people will appreciate and then we can go on hopefully with the help of uh funding that we can move forward. Nick, I want to give you the last word on this talent. Oh no, no, no, I give it to that. But, but you know, people, you know, obviously the US used to be kind of a very a prime attractor for all this talent, but now people talk about, you know, Hong Kong. is rising, for example, Tsinghua is rising, for example, in prominence in terms of developing new talent. What are you seeing in terms of these new corridors of talent around the region? Well, there's no question that Asia is producing extraordinarily talented engineers, scientists, business people, but I want to just leave a parting message for the room. Nick, what's the market cap of Nvidia? We had this, you want be ready, it's 4.6 trillion 4.6 trillion with a T. Would you divide it by 10 for me? For 60 $60 billion. Would you divide that by 10? OK, so 1% of Nvidia's market cap is $46 billion. You can count on fewer than two hands. The number of public companies in Southeast Asia with a $46 billion market cap or greater C is one of them, DBS is one of them. A handful of the nickel producers in Indonesia are getting up there, but this is the point. You may go and get your bachelor's and PhD at Tsinghua, but would you rather attach your career, the short life spans we have, to a company that could become a 3 or $4 trillion dollar company or a company that could become a 2 or $3 billion company? The issue here is that we're not thinking big enough. If Southeast Asian talent can be attached to companies that can scale beyond 4050 $100 billion of market cap, they will stay. But the only way to do that is to consolidate industries across national borders because no one of our countries in ASEAN is big enough to produce a multi-billion dollar company. But together we can do something very remarkable. Well, with that call to action, that's a great place to end our conversation on new corridors for growth. I want to thank SH Wong. I want to thank Nick for a great conversation today, and I will hand over to the next speaker to introduce our closing session.

Multilateral climate diplomacy is losing credibility, fast. The U.S. is pulling back from COP, and many corporations are quietly retreating from their climate commitments. Global summits once framed as urgent final reckonings now feel like political theater, outpaced by the crisis they’re meant to confront. Meanwhile, the planet isn’t waiting: each week brings new signs of collapse floods, fires, droughts, mass displacement—making the gap between diplomacy and reality harder to ignore. In the absence of global consensus, power may shift to cities, blocs, and private capital to drive the next chapter of climate leadership. With trust eroding and timelines tightening, the world faces a stark question: can climate action still be coordinated or must it be reinvented?

Are Climate Talks Dead?

Climate volatility, supply chain shocks, and shifting diets are pressuring the global food system like never before. AI, climate-smart agriculture, biotech, and automation offer promising solutions—but scaling them across fragmented markets and outdated infrastructure is a different story. Can technology and policy move fast enough to build food systems that are not just sustainable, but resilient and equitable? Or will innovation be outpaced by the rising cost, complexity, and carbon intensity of what we eat?

The Future of Food: Can Innovation Outpace Crisis?

Christopher Wood is widely recognized as one of Asia’s most influential and provocative market strategists. As Global Head of Equity Strategy at Jefferies and author of the long-running GREED & fear newsletter, his views have shaped the thinking of global investors for three decades. Chris, famed for flagging speculative excess at some of the world economy’s most decisive moments—the dot-com boom, Japan's credit bubble, the US housing bubble—has recently turned skeptical on the AI trade, warning that investor exuberance is running ahead of fundamentals. He’ll unpack why he sees rising risks in the current cycle and offer his thoughts about where capital might be better deployed.

Networking Lunch - Greed, Fear, and AI

How are the region’s banks and fintech innovators harnessing AI, data, and payments infrastructure to reach the next billion consumers and SMEs? As financial ecosystems evolve, new partnerships are emerging that blend the stability of traditional banking with the speed and creativity of fintech. With ambitions extending beyond regional borders, Southeast Asia’s financial leaders are reimagining how technology can deliver trust, inclusion, and sustainable growth in an increasingly connected global economy.

Banking the Next Billion: Digital Transformation in Southeast Asia

The U.S. dollar has long been the bedrock of global trade, investment, and reserve strategy, but cracks are starting to show. From BRICS nations promoting alternative payment systems to central banks in Asia and the Gulf trimming their dollar holdings, momentum is building for a more multipolar currency regime. As Washington increasingly uses the dollar as a geopolitical lever—imposing sanctions, freezing assets, and enforcing capital controls—some allies and rivals alike are hedging their bets. Meanwhile, China is quietly expanding the renminbi’s reach through oil deals, digital infrastructure, and Belt and Road partnerships. Will the greenback remain the world’s most trusted currency or are we entering a new era where financial power is far more diffused?

Still the One?  Can the U.S. Dollar Remain the World's Reserve Currency?

Well speaking of big ideas, this next panel should be a banger. I think it's a really interesting one. It was alluded to beforehand the future of the US dollar and specifically question the heart of global markets, and one few people would have dared to ask even a decade ago. Can the US dollar hold its position as the world's reserve currency? For generations, the dollar has been the foundation of trade, investment, and global reserves, but the landscape is starting to shift. BRICS economies are testing an alternative payment system. Central banks in Asia and the Gulf are diversifying their holdings, and China is expanding the reach of the renminbi through energy deals, digital networks, and Belt and Road partnerships. So we look at a future where the dollar remains supreme, a world where financial power is far more distributed. To help us understand what's really at stake, we're pleased to be joined by journalist and author Paul Bluestein, who's been studying and reporting on the global monetary system for nearly 4 decades. He'll be in conversation with Fortunes Andrew Staples. Thank you very much. Here they come. Good morning. I'm delighted to welcome my guest for this session, a very topical look at the dollar. We have the author Paul Bluestein of King Dollar. Paul, I'm going to kick off with a very general question. What prompted you to write this book? Why are we hearing so much about this issue of de-dollarization at the moment. Yeah, well, when I started it, there was already a good bit of talk about the dollar losing its dominance because of the overuse of weaponization of the dollar, overuse of sanctions. This was in the first Trump administration, even going back to the to the late second Obama administration, there was a good bit of talk and then of course uh uh during in the course of the uh. First few months of the first few weeks, sorry, of the uh of the Trump administration that that talk has risen to a fever pitch. So yes, I, I'm happy to say that the book is is uh is timely, but um uh but uh yeah, there's lots of been lots of speculation which I. Which which I strongly disagree. Well, let's get into it. King dollar is the crown slipping or not, over to you. I don't think so. I mean this is what I've spent the better part of 5 years, you know, thinking about and I'm still thinking about, still wrestling with. Um, and, and the conclusion I come to is very, you know, this is pretty much the verbatim wording from the, from the first chapter of the book. I say that the dollar's position, it's, as the dominant currency. I'm talking about its position in, in international commerce and cross border transactions of all kinds that that position is, is all but impregnable, barring. Catastrophic missteps by the US government. Now, have there been missteps by the US government, uh, in, in my opinion, in the past few months there have been quite a, quite a number. Are they catastrophic in, in some ways, yes. Are they catastrophic enough to dislodge the dollar from its dominant position? I don't think so. So let me, let me tell you as briefly as I can why. The book goes into a lot of episodes over the past, uh, you know, a little more than half a century in which, uh, in which the dollar's dominance was called into question. Uh, there was the, uh, the collapse of the Bretton Woods system in 1971 when President Nixon took the dollar off completely off of gold. There was the inflation of the 1970s. There was the swelling of US trade deficits in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s. Um, the rise of Japan and when there was a lot of speculation that the yen would supplant the dollar, there was the, uh, the establishment of the euro and there was a lot of talk that the euro would at least equal the dollar, if not surpass it. There was the global financial crisis at that time, a lot of people said, OK, that's it, the dollar is finished, and of course the rise of China when there's been a lot of speculation about the renminbi replacing the dollar and at each of those junctures, uh, some really, uh, you know, it wasn't just um. Uh, uh, uh, casual commenting, it was people from very distinguished positions in the academic world saying that the dollar's dominance was threatened and in every case, in every instance, those prophecies turned wrong and for very good reason. Because the dollar uniquely among currencies has two very important features, two important features that are that are that together make it unique. One is an open capital account. Money can flow freely across US borders, and the second is, which is I think in many ways even more important is the depth and breadth and liquidity of of US financial markets and particularly the market for obligations of the US government. This is so crucial in a financial crisis, um. In a financial crisis when everyone's scrambling for cash, they want to make sure that they have the cash to pay obligations coming due. If you don't have the cash to pay your obligations coming due, you're the next Lehman Brothers, and treasuries are the one asset by far more than any other that you can that if you hold, you can liquidate in large amounts and get and get the cash you need without suffering terrible losses. So. Uh, so that that's an extremely important feature for, uh, this is these two features together make are, are, I think the, the, the bedrock of dollar dominance. Now I mentioned, now my book came out in March, uh, and within days of its publication came Liberation Day. And all the turmoil in financial markets in which in which the dollar was falling, the treasuries were falling, stocks were falling, and this was quite unusual confluence of events, a lot of speculation that the dollar this time, OK, this time this is really it for the dollar, and then that was followed by the attacks on the Federal Reserve by Trump on the Federal Reserve independence and the passage of the one big beautiful bill, quote unquote, which added to US debt problems. Um, and that has led to even more speculation that the dollar is dominant. Now my publisher, Yale University Press, got in touch with me and said we're going to have a paperback edition coming out. You need to write a new preface for your book to take account of the events of the past few months, and it's been very tempting for me to say, OK, these are the catastrophic missteps of which I warned. These, yes. This, uh, the dollar has been dominant all this time, but because of these catastrophic missteps, it's, yes, I now think it's going to lose its dominance. I don't think that's true, partly for the, you know, the two reasons that I mentioned, uh, that make the dollar uniquely, uh, uh, the unique features it has that bolster dominance, but also because the dollar is so entrenched in the way markets work around the world. So, so on that point, I mean, there are certainly jurisdictions around the world thinking about China, Russia, that would bristle that they have to use the US dollar, and the US has not been shy increasingly of weaponizing the US dollar system as well. So how if you do have An economy the size of China and other economies that work closely with China and beyond that you have other countries that would prefer to move away from the dollar because of that dependency and the risk of it being weaponized. How is the dollar's position so unassailable? You mentioned liquidity and so on, but what about alternatives? What about the euro? What about the yen and so on? Yeah, they, they, they, the euro has a lot of the features that the dollar has. It has the eurozone has a lot of sophisticated financial markets, but it doesn't have a single sovereign debt instrument because you've got 20 sovereign nations, each of which issue their own, their own debt, so it's not like the US Treasury market. It doesn't have that that big deep broad and liquid market for one. uh, government instrument, uh, the renminbi doesn't have a, an open capital account, you know, very important in a crisis. You want to make sure that you're going to be able to get your money out of the country, uh, and there are a lot of concerns by investors that, that, that, that they wouldn't be able to do that. But I, I completely. Understand the frustration of governments around the world with the way the US has used its currency to bully other countries for foreign policy purposes. That's the frustration and desire to move away from the dollar is understandable, but It isn't governments that decide which currency is dominant. It is markets. So let me, let me come back to my point about how entrenched the dollar is in, in the functioning of world markets. Uh, so you know, anyone who's casually looked at the dollar dominance. As I'm sure many people in the audience have know that, you know, the dollar is comprises about 60% of the reserves held by central banks around the world, the foreign exchange reserves. It's used for a roughly similar amount in international trade, imports and exports for invoicing. And uh and it's, and it's the currency that's dominant in uh when countries and companies borrow in currencies other than their own, they borrow in dollars more than any other and in foreign exchange markets, the dollar is on one side of, of, of trades for when currencies are converted one into the other. But let me tell you about a market that I mean there are probably some people in this audience who are familiar with it, maybe they even participate in it. But many of you, I'm suspecting will not have heard of it. This is the only chart I have in my book because it, this just, this was the aha moment for me, the moment that just blew me away in terms of understanding the durability of dollar dominance is a market is a market for foreign exchange swaps. It's it's a pretty obscure market, but it is gigantic. And the uh the data on this is put together by the Bank for International Settlements, and foreign exchange swaps are are a market in which the very biggest actors in the global financial system play multinational companies, multinational banks, insurance companies, pension funds, hedge funds that have that have operate in in dozens of countries. And the BIS estimated that the volume of trading in this market of activity in this market is 5 $trillion trillion. That's with a T dollars a day on average. And what, what, what is this market used for? It's used for hedging. This isn't a market where people are trading one currency for another or speculating on where currencies. This is where these are these very big firms that are that are trying to hedge. Themselves against fluctuations in currency markets. So a great example, what am I talking about? A Japanese life insurance company, for example, which wants to invest a lot of its money in dollar assets in treasuries, but other American stocks, other things. But they, so they, they, they have, they use dollars, but they need yen to pay their claimants when they're, when they're, when they, when people die, right? They have to pay their their claims in dollars. So they need to hedge that a company like that needs to hedge itself against movements in the dollar in the dollar yen rate. So, Uh, so they use this market to hedge and the, and what is the currency that absolutely dominates this $5 trillion a day market? It's the dollar, way above the euro, way above the yen, way above the pound sterling, way above the Swiss franc, and others. And so this is, this means that the biggest actors in the global financial system are using dollars for, you know, for investing, for lending, for borrowing, for exporting, for if you imagine what it would take to unwind all that, it would be so costly, so difficult, and take such a long time. So you know, this is why I say entrenched. It's entrenched. The dollar is entrenched, like it or not, for better or for worse, it's entrenched. Um, what could shake that entrenchment? For example, we've been hearing a lot about crypto, we've been hearing a lot more recently about stablecoins, for example. That's sort of one area. So technology and innovation there. The other one you mentioned earlier on is the sort of policy missteps that the US government might make. And earlier in the year we were hearing a lot about a potential Mar a Lago accord which might have, you know, big implications for the US dollar. Your your comments on Well, you know, yeah, a Mar a Lago card in my view would be a catastrophic policy misstep. Um, it would, and, you know, I don't want to underestimate the potential catastrophic consequences of those missteps. I'm, I'm very much agree that that these things could lead to a financial crisis, uh, you know, the and you don't even have to go to as far as the Mar a Lago accord, you know, if you have uh. you know, more pressure on the Fed to, to, you know, just print money to cover US deficits. I can easily imagine that leading to a big selloff in Treasury securities. Interest rates would rise. The US would suffer some pretty severe economic consequences of that. A Mar a Lago accord, you know, this is, this is this talk, you know, we want, we want to make the dollar go down, but we want to preserve dollar dominance, so we will tax Treasury securities held. Abroad by foreigners that will tax the interest that we pay, that would have a devastating consequence on the market for treasuries. It could lead to a quite severe financial crisis. I don't, I don't want to underestimate that, but you know, the loss of dollar dominance would be the least of our worries in that case. I mean, if we have a real severe crisis in the market for US Treasury, the most important financial market in the world. loss of dollar dominance is, um, is, is, is going to pale by comparison with, with, with the other awful consequences of that. So that's a scenario that we could look through. What about the tech side of things, the stablecoins and so on? What does that mean, if anything, for for dollar dos? Well, isn't it? Ironic, you know, the crypto industry which started off in this, in these uh with these idealistic gauzy ideas, you know, that we're gonna, we're going to create a form of monetary transmission that, that, uh, you know, that avoids banks, central banks, governments entirely. And now they are touting themselves as, as, you know, we're going to help the dollar because after all, stable coins, which are, you know, are tied to fiat dollars, 99% of them are backed by are linked to the dollar and thanks to the legislation that was passed this summer, the Genius Act, they, they are reasonably. You're reliably backed by by reserves of dollars and so now the crypto industry is saying this is going to help the dollar. This is going to save the dollar. Well, first of all, I don't think the dollar needs saving for the reasons we've just been talking about, but stablecoins could actually undermine the the most important benefit that the US gets from dollar dominance. I think the most important. Benefit which is its ability to use the dollar for for for foreign policy leverage because stablecoins can because they are now the crypto industry argues that it's very easy to trace but the blockchain is transparent. You can you can it makes it much easier to catch crooks. I'm sorry, but, but really they're really clever people in the. To space know how to use these types of instruments in ways that disguise their identity and disguise their activities, and I think sanctions evasion is going to become a bigger problem actually for for the US, but of course it's being pushed as this great, great way to help to help dollar dominance. I doubt that it will have, it'll have some effect on the margin. Uh, but I, I doubt that it'll be more than that. Yeah, we've certainly seen China and its trade with other nations, particularly Belt and Road, um, all those nations involved in Belt and Road. Settling their trade more in renminbi and so on with Russia, with Iran, with other parts of the world as well. Is this something that could shake the dollar dominance, or is this really just on the margins? I think it's on the margins. I mean, I think it's it's certainly important for China because they want to, they want to make themselves resilient against. The possibility of the US using types of sanctions against them that were used against Russia, you know, I think if the US used those types of sanctions against China, an economy that's 10 times the size of Russia's. Uh, that the consequences because as we've just seen in the in the trade war, you know, the trade conflict between the US and China, we've just seen that China has a lot of tools of leverage at its own disposal, so I think the consequences of that would be quite disastrous anyway, but, but the Chinese want to make darn sure for quite understandable reasons that they are not vulnerable to that kind of. Thing and they've done quite a good job, I think, of making their own bilateral trade with other countries, uh, much more renminbi denominated, but is the renminbi being used as the way the dollar is in third country trade, in other words, between countries that are neither, you know, China nor the US, no, it's, it's not being used. It's not being used for that purpose. It's not internationalized to that extent, so I don't think it poses a threat to dollar dominance. Yeah, and it's interesting, isn't it, because the states in many other areas such as, you know, world police, being the world policeman and trade and so on seems to be stepping stepping back from that hegemonic role, but they want the dollar to remain. As it is, yeah, OK, um, just coming into the last few seconds and looking out ahead, we've talked about sort of policy mistakes that could shake the dominance of the of the dollar. I'm reminded of that quote by Hemingway that we've heard a couple of times this year as well, things, you know, gradually, then all of a sudden, what could be that flip? What could make things change? Well, you know, I mean a Mar a Lago, I suppose I don't think it's likely that they'll do that because I think they've realized that it would, it would have catastrophic consequences. you know, one of the scenarios that I've I've tried to think of, you know, what could shake the dollar? What, what, and the one that I one that I'm come up with and and I hope no one will be offended is. I imagine the following conversation taking place somewhere in the in the inner sanctum of the White House where the First Lady says to the president, Donald, you know, Barron is, you've always say Baron is such a smart boy. Well, he thinks that bitcoin should become the legal tender or currency of the United States. Don't you think that, don't you agree that he's such a smart boy? And now, do I think this is likely to lead to some change? In the legal tender laws in the United States, I don't, I don't think it's likely, but it's kind of horrifying to think, well, it's conceivable. So yeah, that would be one, that would be one scenario if you like. Yeah, something for us to watch out for then. But in the meantime it looks like we'll be using the dollar for some time, I think so, yeah, OK, well, with that, thank you very much and please join me in thanking Paul for his thoughts on the dollar. Thank you. Thank you very much. OK. Yeah, I go.

Blockchain, fintech, and even quantum computing are reshaping the foundations of the financial system—from payments and lending to asset ownership and credit scoring. These tools promise to broaden access, lower costs, and accelerate inclusion, especially in underserved markets. But they also raise new risks: currency fragmentation, regulatory arbitrage, and systemic volatility. As innovation races ahead of governance, can we build a digital financial architecture that is open, stable, and equitable?

In the Money: Can Emerging Tech Democratize Finance - Without Destabilizing It?

The world’s stock exchanges are in flux. While Wall Street still commands the lion’s share of listings and liquidity, regional rivals from London and Hong Kong to Singapore, Tokyo, and even Malaysia are battling for a piece of the action. In a time of capital controls, geopolitical rifts, and rising regulatory burdens, companies are rethinking where they go public, and why. Dual listings are back in vogue, tech IPOs are migrating, and regulatory arbitrage is creating new winners and losers. Can Asia’s exchanges position themselves as credible global platforms? Or are we entering an era of financial nationalism, where capital stays closer to home?

Battle of the Bourses

AI is transforming the nature of work faster than our institutions can adapt. As demand surges for data fluency, machine collaboration, and digital literacy, education systems and corporate training programs are struggling to keep pace. So, who’s responsible for closing the skills gap—governments, employers, or individuals themselves? And how do we ensure that the AI era doesn’t deepen inequality for those already at risk of being left behind?

The Skills Mismatch

Kishore Mahbubani, one of Asia’s most original and influential geopolitical thinkers, former President of the United Nations Security Council and Distinguished Fellow at the Asia Research Institute, National University of Singapore, is the author of widely read works including Has the West Lost It? and Has China Won? As U.S.–China tensions deepen across trade, technology, and security, Asia finds itself at the center of competing visions of the future. How can governments and businesses in the region navigate great-power rivalry—and where might this moment create both risks and opportunities?

Asia's Balancing Act

Asia’s innovation engines are accelerating — building, funding, and scaling ideas at unprecedented speed. From fintech to green tech, digital infrastructure to AI, the region is rewriting the playbook for growth and global competitiveness. This session dives inside Asia and the world’s fastest growing innovation ecosystems to uncover what fuels their momentum, and how they are shaping the next decade of global innovations.

Hosted by: Universiti Malaya

Lunch Strategy III - From Lab to Launch: Fast Tracking Innovation Across Southeast Asia

Traditional Chinese Medicine is poised for global growth — but must balance authenticity with modernization. This session explores how innovation, science, and cross-border cooperation can unlock TCM’s full potential as a credible and sustainable contributor to global health.

Hosted by: Guangzhou Pharmaceutical Company (GPC)

Lunch Strategy II - Chinese Medicine for the Modern World

Malaysia is building its future — and it begins in Johor. Ibrahim Technopolis (IBTEC) is redefining how nations design cities for innovation, sustainability, and growth. Positioned in the Iskandar region, IBTEC fuses digital infrastructure, clean energy, and advanced industries to power a connected economy. This session explores how Malaysia is transforming vision into execution, turning ambition into architecture and technology into opportunity. Inside IBTEC lies a blueprint for what it takes to build not just a smart city, but a smart nation.

Hosted by: Johor Corporation

Lunch Strategy I - The Making of a Smart Nation: Inside Ibrahim Technopolis (IBTEC)

We're going to be learning about a new smart city development taking shape in the new Johor Singapore Special Economic Zone and hopefully you took in some of the panels and discussions earlier on today where we had a bit of a deeper insight into what's happening in that in that part of the world. Very exciting developments, and I think this that we're going to hear about today is the is the cherry on top of the cake. It's called the Ibrahim Technopolis, and when completed, it will become a master. A planned township spanning over 7000 acres. It will also be Southeast Asia's first circular city. So I'd like to take a moment to thank our host for this session, Johor Corporation, and in just a moment you'll hear from Datok Mahir Aziz, director of patient capital at Johor Corporation and group managing director of Johor Capital Group. So with that, please join me in welcoming Daok to the stage. Daok, thank you. Oh, OK. Do anything. OK, smima Sar Malekum Moratalakato. Thanks, uh, Andy for the introduction and also the mic as well. Uh, again, um, basically, I'm standing here, I think I'm selling across the room as well, um, just, um, to share a bit, I know the screen is mostly on that side, um, so you may have to somewhat lean over to see what we are presenting, but the, the whole idea is to at least articulate and elaborate if, if I may. Uh, some of the points that um you've heard from Wabi Lee this morning very much speaking and itemizing some of the things that we are looking at, uh, from a Johor perspective and also Malaysia perspective, uh, with regards to the special economic zone that we have with Singapore and just before lunch, uh, that. Also elaborating even further in the role of not only Johor Corporation, but the development of Ibrahim taking our place as a venue, as a platform, as a place for us to look at the convergence of an ecosystem that we are trying to build. You've heard since morning, uh, I think the idea of sandboxing, test bedding. Having the right kind of ingredients, uh, in, in building an ecosystem that is supposed and meant to be not only sustainable, but thriving as we address um some of the issues and challenges uh uh on various platforms uh across the aspect of geopolitical challenges, economic. mandate that we carry at JOB and addressing some of the newer things that we are trying to build and we build more solutions, especially along along the lines of artificial intelligence as we build uh more adoption, we go through digital transformation as well. As a summary, I think we look at the Johor, Johor Singapore Special Economic zone. I think it's an area where the momentum for us to actually leverage on an area uh that, that needs, that, that needs to build, that can create uh more uh I think areas for us to be more strategic. And, and be able to actually position itself uh to, to look at not only hosting some of these uh companies, corporations, organizations, academic institutions and all that. Those would be this uh place where we look at uh the entire zone, uh, special economic zone for these areas. We believe that in any development, you need a set of catalytic projects and this is what and why it is very, very important. It is anchored as one of the nine flagship zones within uh Johor, Singapore. Special economic zone, we do have, we heard Wabi Lee spoke about the 11 sectors that we're looking at that. 9 of those sectors are supposed to be happening inside uh IEC itself. So it is not so much about the infrastructure, but there's a lot more at play, which I'll go through in a bit. From a physical point of view, a tech is built across 9 sectors, as we mentioned. Um, I think the numbers of more than 7290 acres is what we are looking at. Definitely it's something massive that we are building, and again, if we look at how we want to be able to build this, we have to start somewhere. So Yibi Lee talked about how Johor basically capitalized on the opportunities that were made available primarily because of certain decisions made by our neighbors down south in Singapore uh with regards to the moratorium, and again, we were there. Ready to actually accept and ready to work together. I have in various forms or rather in my previous life as well has spoken about building ecosystems and about building this vis a vis the ASEAN neighbors that we have. Malaysia cannot. And we will not be able to become Singapore overnight. There's no way that we can move the financial capital to Malaysia and say that, OK, forget Singapore and just build in Malaysia. It doesn't work like that. We obviously cannot become Indonesia overnight or Thailand as well that we can just multiply and say that I have the mass market for you to actually do that, but there's a place for us to actually do this, and we see Itech as one of the uh the best platform. Uh, for, for, for us to be able to see how we can help a more and highly digitalized industries in the form of logistics, healthcare, uh, and others as well, and we start, we started to build this from the data center ecosystem that we have. So 10% roughly. Of what we envision to have. And aspire to actually develop is already in place. Whybili talked about more than 10 data centers currently operating and we are getting more uh input and more I think committed investments. We hope to be able to achieve in the next year or so. The ecosystem that we talked about, and I tell you why this is important because there's always a place for everyone, not only in this room, but also outside there to be able to see there's a screen right behind you just in case. I know you're straining your neck to actually see it, but uh as far as uh ecosystems that we talked about and that I talked about innovation corridor. Activities such as regulatory sandbox, adoption of certain solutions, and also the solutions that we want to be able to build. That is a physical platform that we're trying to build right there at Ibrahim Technopolis and a platform that we hope to be able to begin now. And this is a platform where connectivity, collaboration would be some of those points that we want to be able to talk about. I just came back from Beijing yesterday basically presenting not only, uh, I think the aspect of JCOB, but very much on how China is building a proper AI ecosystem together with ASEAN stemming from their involvement and more active participation with ASEAN economies as well. I think the excitement is all there and I actually Really look at how they are planning, uh, uh, I think the ecosystem that they are looking at, the application of AI in not only in main industries, but rather on the research side, and this is expediting activities that they are doing now, looking at building new solutions and very importantly, looking at building it together with the ASEAN countries, starting, uh, starting with both Singapore and also Malaysia. Other aspect that we are also looking at, again, we meet a lot of people, somebody asked me outside, whom have you met so far, uh, and who who else do you plan to meet as well. Uh, I think we spoke about meeting just about anyone because again, the role of whether you're providing or generating data, you're developing infrastructure, you're deploying that currently with us. And you are helping us in building the right kind of governance. Building without control is I think a recipe for disaster, but too much control very early on, especially as we talked about AI is again impeding, I think the growth of this. I was at the uh Geneva uh AI forum last year. You can see the discussion at the top floors talking about regulations and all that. And the ground floor who was talking about, OK, let's go and do this and explore all the things. You can really cut the tension. With a butter knife because they couldn't agree on that, but yet we know that AI is this big trend that is driving digital, that is driving a lot more projects, talent development, and SMEs as we see it. So again, this will be an area as we can see if tech. Uh, that we developed, uh, of course, uh, I have my colleagues led by Dr. Akma and also John at the back who are, uh, actually ready uh to discuss in more details with you guys individually in here or uh outside of this event to talk about other areas that we want to be able to do together and collaborate as well. As far as incentives, and before I close this, this is again commitment so far by the federal and state governments to look at tax, uh, both on the incentive sites and also exemptions. There's also because of the national energy transition roadmap, we are providing the renewable energy benefits and lastly, we are also at Jacob site. Together with our stakeholders, building the right kind of infrastructure that we feel is needed for us to be able to do that. We can talk about AI until next week, but without the right infrastructure, the right investments, not only on the physical infrastructure, but the soft part which is talent and also governance and policies, this will not happen. So again, thank you very much for your attention. uh, Mr. John Ng and the rest of the team will be in the Kada room, uh, to entertain any additional questions that you may have besides uh the rest of the Jacob team that we have here today. Thank you very much. The human mind is phenomenal. OK, I was too quick. I wanted to play this. So OK, I'll leave you with the video. Machines that transformed.

How does a CEO manage almost 17,000 outlets across 31 different markets—particularly amid supply chain disruptions and rapidly changing consumer tastes? For Malina Ngai, the answer boils down to “science”: a focus on data and numbers, drawn from her experience as a competitive athlete, that complements the human experiences that lie at the heart of retail. That’s helped AS Watson recognize new trends in health, beauty and marketing coming out of markets like China. Join us for a one-on-one conversation with one of the world’s most powerful retail CEOs on data-driven leadership–and a background in competitive sports–is shaping the future of global health and beauty.

Gala Dinner - The Science Behind a 185-Year-Old Brand: A Conversation with Malina Ngai, Group CEO, A.S. Watson

The competition for green capital is reshaping investment strategies across Southeast Asia. Energy, agriculture, and infrastructure players are racing to secure the funding that will define the region’s low-carbon future. Markets like the European Union are setting stricter sustainability standards, while lenders and development banks are tying capital to measurable impact. For companies, meeting those conditions can open doors to new markets and growth opportunities, failing to do so risks being left behind.

Financing Asean's Green Transition

GLP-1 drugs, once developed for diabetes, have rapidly become cultural and economic disruptors, transforming bodies, behaviors, and billion-dollar industries. In the U.S. alone, millions are already on these treatments, curbing appetites not just for calories, but for snacks, alcohol, and fast food. Snack sales are slumping, restaurant chains are rethinking menus, and some of the world’s largest food and beverage companies are under pressure to adapt. The health upsides—weight loss, reduced cardiovascular risk, and lower diabetes incidence—are striking. Yet the long-term risks, costs, and cultural ripple effects remain uncertain. As medicine rewires metabolism itself, are we ready for the economic, ethical, and societal aftershocks of an appetite-suppressed future?

The Appetite Revolution: How GLP-1 Drugs are Reshaping Food, Health - and the Future of Consumption

The healthcare sector is entering a new investment era — one defined by technology, demographic shifts, and post-pandemic resilience. For investors, the opportunity is immense; for operators, the challenge is delivering accessible, affordable, and technologically advanced healthcare at scale. In Asia, private equity and healthcare providers are redefining the boundaries between medicine, innovation, and markets. This conversation dives into how strategic investment can build not just hospitals, but whole ecosystems of wellness — from digital platforms and specialized care to preventive and personalized medicine.

Healthy Returns: Investing in Asia's Care Economy

Microsoft recently unveiled an AI diagnostic system that scored four times higher than human doctors in identifying complex medical cases from the New England Journal of Medicine—a stunning benchmark, albeit in a highly-controlled setting. With speed, recall, and precision on its side, AI is quickly becoming a formidable force in clinical decision-making. But these tools aren’t infallible, and real-world medicine rarely mirrors textbook cases. As AI begins to shift from research labs to exam rooms, the stakes are growing: Who carries the liability when machines make mistakes? And what happens to trust, and the human touch, when your physician might be a program?

AI vs. MD

One of Asia’s leading insurers has made a bold bet: that the future of its business lies not just in covering illness, but in helping its policy holders live “healthier, longer, better lives.” To that end, it is weaving data, AI, and behavioral science into everyday life — turning fitness tracking, preventive care, and personalized health nudges into core services. Is the strategy working? Can an insurer truly influence customers’ daily behavior? And is this innovative model as good for business as it is for well-being?

Live Long and Prosper: How Insurers are Using Data, Technology, and Behavioral Science to Extend "Healthspans" - and Deepen Relationships with Customers

Welcome back everyone. Please come in and take your seats. Uh, we'll start our afternoon session. Our next session explores a quiet revolution in insurance where data, AI, and behavioral science are not only assessing risk but can actively shape daily habits. From movement and sleep to preventive care, this new model is being deployed by one of Asia's leading insurers, and it raises important questions. Can an insurer influence behavior at scale? And do healthy customers really lead healthier lead to healthier returns? To give us some answers, I'm pleased to welcome Stuart A. Spencer, Group chief marketing officer of AIA Group. Stuart, please. Let's put you in. Thank you, Stuart, for being with us. Pleasure. It's a real treat to have Stuart. Um, AIA is one of the most extraordinary and innovative insurance companies that I've ever, uh, studied, and, uh, Stewart has been right at the center of of this grand project that they have undertaken, um. How many people here are familiar with the with the AIA theme? I see it all the time on the sides of buses in Hong Kong, but maybe Stuart, you could start off by telling us what it is. So Clay, first of all, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure and an honor to be here at AIA. Our purpose is healthier, longer, and better lives. It's not per se a theme, it's not a bumper sticker, it is not a slogan, it is not a tagline. It fundamentally serves as our north star as an organization. It guides the decisions we make. It guides how we operate, how we think, what we do, how we allocate capital, and fundamentally underpins the strategic priorities that we define as an enterprise. The reason that our purpose is healthy, longer better lives is that we are the largest pan-Asian life and health insurer. Operating in 18 markets across this part of the world with 40 million customers and you can appreciate. We want our customers, given the business that we're in life and health, to live healthier, longer and better lives, and what we heard this morning is that this part of the world is experiencing unprecedented levels of socioeconomic and even political transformation, an incredible backdrop of rising incomes and lifting hundreds and hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, raising living standards, and so on. But behind that in a way, success, that veneer masks the fact that we have a massive proliferation of noncommunicable lifestyle diseases, and if I can, let me in a way to socialize and contextualize all of this for all of you. Um, lifestyle diseases that are non-communicable, that are essentially brought upon by our own behavior or potentially poor behavior, bring on ailments, hazards such as diabetes, heart attack, stroke, cancer, hypertension, chronic lung disease, and these are triggered by choices that we make choices about how we or we do not exercise or lack of exercise, poor diet. Excessive alcohol, smoking, um, stress, pollution, all of this serves to create a a fairly dangerous cocktail. And what we see is that today across Asia, even here in Malaysia, close to 70%. Of all disease diagnoses represent lifestyle disease. 70%, 70% in other nations it's even higher, 80%. Australia close to 90%. So in a way we say that Asia is getting wealthier but not healthier. We call it affluenza. And you can appreciate, therefore, that for us it's a crisis in many levels it's a public health catastrophe. We see super high levels of childhood obesity, and this is not a criticism and just an observation, the 10:30 break that we had here. I looked at the offerings and it was Deep fried and wok fried and the glucose content of those shake those cakes and pandan, I said to myself, this is the quintessential reason why we have the situation that we have that that has the capacity, the propensity clay to undermine, sabotage, derail, and torpedo all this incredible infrastructure. Transformation and the pace of economic development that we spent this morning discussing behind all of that, you have the human piece and you can't work well if you're unwell and Hence our focus to cultivate, enable, realize healthy and longer, better lives has both a community as well as commercial dimension that is unassailable. Tell me a little bit about how AIA came to this, you know, the journey of how it came to this this focus, because, um, you know, I look at other insurers, particularly in Asia, you don't typically think of insurers. As as being concerned about lifestyle lifestyle coaches they're looking at lifestyle statistics and odds and you know, calculating their premiums accordingly, but it's really unusual that you are hands on getting involved trying to shape people's behaviors. Well, we went IPO in 2010 when we disengaged from AIG, our former parent, and at that time we billed ourselves as the real life company. Which some of you may remember. And when I rejoined the company in 2017, I examined that because I felt that we were saying something about ourselves. We weren't really discussing our customers. And we found that there was a play on words. People misunderstood what we were talking about. We were trying to infer that life has its share of ups and downs, but AIA understands that the good and bad we'll always be there with you for you with a real life company. We understand real life. But unfortunately or fortunately, many people misunderstood it as are saying that we were the only real life insurance company. All the others were fake. So I realized that we were just not only were we not expressing what we actually do, we weren't articulating a commitment to our customers in any way. And we were being misunderstood and the clincher was our CEO at the time when I told our CEO at the time that 40% of the people that we researched misattributed that to Great Eastern, one of our competitors. He was like, OK, enough's enough. So we undertook a fairly detailed and lengthy process of introspection of self-examination, of trying to understand. How we were perceived truly peel the onion to determine what business we are really in, and ultimately what is the good we want to do for society, what is the difference that we want to make? What is the legacy we want to leave behind as an enterprise? Um, we were in business for over 100 years and we said, OK, what do we, what do we actually, what do people think we do? And it was clear with our launch of AIA Vitality and a recognition that we need to drive behavioral change that our purpose truly was about enabling healthier, longer, and better lives and in my capacity I have to prove it. I have to make it tangible. I have to make it unassailable and abundantly clear, and that's what we spend our time. Conveying, doing, creating in the marketplace. A real challenge to try to communicate that message, that purpose across 18 radically different markets. It's less challenging than you think because what underpins all of this is really as you opened up the shift that we've made from being a traditional you die we pay life insurer, purely transactional, not relational. To an insurer that understands we need to cultivate, deepen and strengthen lifetime relationships, lifelong relationships, not transactional relationships, because we're in the people business. We sell long term products and it is absolutely imperative. Let me repeat, absolutely imperative that if you are in this business. With the backdrop of lifestyle disease, this inexorable proliferation of lifestyle disease, what are you going to do? Are you going to sit on the sidelines and hope for the best, hope that your actuaries price the products properly and that your actuarial curves, your mortality, morbidity will ultimately turn out the way you want, or do you take a stand, or do you become actively engaged and positively affirmatively intrusive? In the lives of your customers and shape behavior. If you are in our industry today, And you are not actively trying to get your customers to live healthier, longer, and better lives and be more a behavioral change catalyst than you are purely an underwriter, then you are absolutely missing a trick, that's fascinating. a little bit about how you engage and the sort of things that you do to influence behavior. So, we do a lot of marketing and we have a brand ecosystem that tries to make us fundamentally synonymous with healthy longer, better lives. You want people to think that AIA are the healthy and longer, Better lives people, but our principal platform is AIA Vitality. AIA Vitality is a science-backed, wellness-based application. That is very simple in its design and very clear in its purpose. Know your health, improve your health, get rewarded. We know and we understand behavioral economics. We know people need rewards. They need incentives because there's this incredible knowing, doing gap. We all have it. I knew I needed to stop drinking, but I didn't do anything about it until my headaches were unbearable. So people know that about their health. People want our research is clear. People want to be healthier. They want a tool. They want a helping hand. They want, they want guidance. They want advice. They want affirmation, and they don't want to feel intimidated about embarking on a health care journey. So how does how does vitality work? I mean, just walk through it. I can pull it out, but I'm not. It is very rewarding and it is very structured, so you determine the type of um activity, physical activity you want to do and you track. I've got, I've got my wearable. I've I've got two watches. People ask me all the time, why do I have two watches, I have two wrists, but this is, this is for uh. And this is for recognition of hard work, right? And so the program is very simple. It is purely digital and we continue to invest to make user journeys easier, more intuitive, more personalized, more customized. So Clay has clay's vitality. I have my vitality, and the thinking behind it really is that. We want to try and better democratize our underwriting, our pricing, and our risk because the clay of today is not the clay of 30 years ago. You may have taken out a life insurance policy when you started a family 30 years ago, but You change as a risk. You evolve as a human being, and your risk profile parameters change as well. So it's by no means static, and what vitality does, it rewards people for taking better care of themselves. So your premiums are adjusted based on your year over year engagement in the program. So if you hit your vitality points target, we will reward you by reducing your premiums. If you take better care of yourself, why should you pay and subsidize the people in the risk pool who don't take care of themselves? So we're rewarding you and we're acknowledging your great behavior and it's Going right into your pocketbook, you're paying us less and in so doing we create this virtuous circle of what we call shared value better for clay, it's better for AIA, and it's better for society. When we look at the Asia Pacific cost of the disease burden, it is, it is beyond the $1 trillion right? So the impact on productivity is. Extreme not only financially but also for society as well. And you take the, you take that and then you take the massive protection gap that we have across Asia. The insurance that people have versus the insurance people need is also estimated about $0.5 trillion and this is in the backdrop of 2030. 60% of the global middle class will be here in Asia, and we've learned post pandemic. That people recognize the need for private health care more than ever. People suffered through the democratization of the devastation of the pandemic and recognized that sickness, illness is inevitable, and for younger people death may be distant. But sickness is inevitable, and so we see a surge in demand for private health care, and we are the largest pan-Asian provider of medical insurance today. And how can you measure this in outcomes? Is it working? How can you tell? Yeah, so we're maniacal about measurement, as you can appreciate, and we've undertaken longitudinal research since the inception of AIA Vitality across all the markets in which we operate. And we want to track what is the impact that this program is truly having on mortality and morbidity and ultimately longevity because that is the business that we're in. So we track key, I would say biometric KPIs. We track BMI, we track HbA1C, we track LDL, we track blood pressure, of course we measure heart rate. We have millions and millions of workouts every day, and what we've learned is. There's absolutely a pixie dust vitality effect that takes place. Our vitality customers claim less. They recommend us more on MPS. They buy more from us in terms of upsell, cross-sell, and we've seen great outcomes in both mortality and morbidity extension. So we have clinical improvements and we have commercial improvements. And on the clinical side we've seen real reductions in HbA1c. I'm an example. I'm a living proof. My HbA1c was dangerously high. I'm Vitality Platinum now. My HbA1C has come way down. So we've seen, we've got. measure health from unhealthy to healthy across BMI, HbA1C, LDL, etc. and we see sustained improvement based on the degree of engagement in the program. So you're measuring this partly through wearables, but also presumably through actual visits to healthcare providers work. So in the Know your health, improve your health, get rewarded, it's critical that people do what we call a vitality health check because the idea is to shift the paradigm. Completely away from diagnosis, treatment, and rehab to prediction, prevention, early detection, early intervention, guys, we don't want our customers to get cancer. We want our customers to discover that they may have a propensity for cancer early on. So we're trying to shift that focus completely to prevention, and vitality is the quintessential, as I said, science-backed platform that's ultimately designed to drive prediction and prevention. So how much do recent advances in both kind of wearable kind of hardware gadget technology and AI, you know, large language incredible. I mean, the amount of information we now possess about our customers and how that can feed into how we communicate, what we offer, how we guide their journeys, and you know we've been talking all morning about AI. Um, you know, we have enterprise-wide work that's underway to optimize the impact of AI, not that we become AIA per se, but that we are intelligent in our in our usage and given our healthcare business, given Vitality Vitality have just come out with Vitality AI, which I saw a demo the other day which is really fantastic, which is super intuitive. And it will help engage even more customers in a much more personalized way, and that's what people want today. Show me, you know me. You want, you want to believe that I understand you, that I know you, I understand your needs, I can anticipate your needs, and that I value you as a customer. All of this is being fed in to hyper personalize what we know about you so that our communications with you and our engagement with you makes you feel like you're understood and you're valued. And that's crucial. How much does it help to kind of bring customers together in this effort? I, you know, think of, uh, in Hong Kong, uh, you know, the, the Hong Kong I, the big Ferris wheel, has the AIA brand of it and it has this amazing vitality center underneath it. Tell us about that and how that works and and why you. So look, I mean, we are determined to give back to the community if if our purpose is to enable healthier, longer, better lives, then we're we want everybody, people who aren't our customers who will never be our customers, we have an effort called AIA 1 billion. We, we are committing to engage a billion people, uh, to live a healthier, longer life and, and take a positive action that improves their health by 2030 and we are at 500 and something million now mid mid-decade. So our effort is to is to drive social change. Our effort is to have social impact, guys, we are throwing everything in the kitchen sink to get people to recognize how important it is to be healthier and to do our part as the leader of our of the life insurance industry. To be heavyweight on influence and to trigger and catalyze those those moments that people rethink healthy, believe that they can be healthier, and then take active steps to become healthier, and that is an incredible thing to be able to catalyze. It's a remarkable thing, you know, we were talking earlier this morning with Dr. Kass about this idea of technology converging, but what I hear from you is that there's this conversion. Conversion of uh technology, data, uh uh you know uh hardware, but also understanding of human behavior, uh, and, and, uh, kind of a unique cultural awareness. I mean I cannot think of any other insurer that serves 18, you know, markets as radically different. Music. Look, it's about clarity. It's about courage, and ultimately it's about humanity. No chatbot, no robot, no website, um, no, you know, anime, um, Avatar is going to replace a caring, feeling, smart AIA agent who provides incredible advice sitting across the kitchen table looking. You in the eye and making sure that we are giving you a blanket of love, care and protection. It's never going to change, but what we will have are tools that enable that conversation to be even more enriching, even more personalized, even more productive. It's extraordinary. I mean, you must have an incredible cross-functional team to be able to deliver all those things. I'm blessed. Well, that's all the time we have. This has been a fascinating conversation, a unique, uh, company, uh, embarked on a unique, uh, uh, mission, uh, with a, with a very laudatory goal. Stuart, thank you so much for sharing your insights. Thank you for having me. Thank you. OK, take care, buddy. Bye bye.

Malaysia is pursuing an ambitious agenda to expand cross-border energy infrastructure, build seamless regional payments systems, and attract high-value electronics manufacturing. Finance Minister II outlines how these priorities fit into a broader plan to strengthen and secure Malaysia’s interests and technology tensions and shifting global economy.

Malaysia's Economic Strategy: A Conversation with Finance Minister Il Datuk Seri Amir Hazmah Azizan

We heard earlier in the day that Malaysia is at a turning point, scaling cross-border energy and trade links and expanding its foothold in high-value electronics and manufacturing. Those aren't isolated initiatives. They're pillars of a national strategy to strengthen Malaysia's competitiveness in a world defined by new technologies and shifting global supply chains. We are pleased today to be joined by a leader who has been instrumental in shaping Malaysia's economic strategy. And the decisions guiding the country's next phase of growth. Please join me in welcoming our forum's guests of honor, YB Senator Datuk Seri Amer Hamza Azizan, Malaysia's 2nd Minister of Finance. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us here this afternoon. It is this is a busy man. He has not just the finance portfolio, but he's also the economy minister. We are right in the middle of budget season in the parliament, so that he would carve time out of his schedule to join us is extraordinary, and we thank him. Um, I want to ask you to begin with a little bit about your own background because it's, it's quite remarkable. Um, your journey has come through the private sector to your current, uh, uh, post. You're not a kind of traditional career politician at all. Um, you began at Shell Oil and there for many years, worked at Cazana, uh, the employees, uh, pension benefit fund. Um, patronus, so really extraordinary portfolio of different, uh different roles. How, how do you think your, uh, private sector experience shapes the way you approach your current public job? Oh, thank you. Uh, yeah, I'm always constantly reminded I'm not a politician. I'm very happy to say that I'm not a politician. Yeah, uh, because effectively what I bring to the table, uh, is, uh. An ability for us to actually look at it on raw data, start taking decisions based on what we need to do, and then adjust with what's required from the country point of view. So, um, if you look at the experience I've had, I've been lucky, I've had a tremendous amount of opportunity to try different things. So in trying to cobble together government policy and implementation, the most important thing that I would like to bring on the table is the ability to say, OK, fine and understand the wider things that we need to do, but what does it take on the ground to make it stick? What's the issue that you have that that makes it stick and understanding the business community allows me to also address the needs that required. So we kind of a uh A pragmatism about, OK, we can do that if you want, but these are going to be the consequences. Is that really what you want, which is, which is a really valuable and beneficial approach and you know as I look at at Malaysia and and the policy framework, it's, it's very impressive. I have to say I mean we have been talking all day about turbulence in the global economy, all the challenges. The changes that are going on, we've got superpowers, you know, at loggerheads. We've got crazy tariffs that go up and that go down and disappear and get holes carved out of them. We've got restrictions on exports of technology. And then on top of that, we've got all these technological changes, AI and and maybe even more dramatic changes just over the, the horizon, um. You know, I, I just think back to where we were, you know, quote unquote liberation day and and all of ASEAN sort of had a collective heart attack about that. But you look at where, you know, particularly Malaysia is today, and I wonder if I could ask you a little bit about, you know, your, your kind of sense of where the economy is. Um, it's doing pretty well. It was 5.3, was it in the third quarter, 5.2% in the third quarter. And um I just noticed that I know that your own forecast is more conservative, it's like 4.2 to 4.8 for for 2025, but many of the private banks have started to come around and be much more optimistic. I was just mentioning that Standard Charter just a few hours ago raised its GDP forecast to 5.2, which would be pretty impressive. What's your, what's your thought? Are you more optimistic than you? You know, now that we're into this quarter, and this year has been a very challenging year for everybody, right, uh, but Malaysia's approach has always been an approach that is always measured and actually trying to take and take decisions what is necessary for the long term in doing it. So when Liberation Day hit, we didn't panic, we, we weren't the first going out there and say I'm going to reset my target to be this. We took some time to understand what were the capacity of us to be able to respond, what were the key things that we needed to do, and then execute against that. Hence you saw Benara came up with a revised estimate only in July, you know, this year and we reduced our rate from 4 to 4.8%. Uh, and touch wood, uh, we're still being able to get to a 5.2% in the third quarter, and I think that's the, the, the strength of the Malaysian economy. The Malaysian economy has a very deep diversification at its base. No export market is greater than 13%, yeah, so it's a wide range of markets and the base of the economy is also quite well integrated uh along the way and that's helped us being able to address the challenges that we're seeing today in in the ever-changing world. So the, yeah, the diversity of the economy has really been part of the secret of its of its resilience. Um, the other thing that has struck me as extraordinary is that, um, in the midst of all this upheaval, uh, you've been very disciplined on the fiscal side and, uh, you know, trying to keep the, the budget deficit coming down. Can you talk a little bit about some of the benchmarks there and kind of where we are in the budget and, and, uh, what, what you, I mean, where, where are we now? I think we're 3.8%, is that right of GDP? Yeah, so if you look at the Malaysia, I think like most countries in the world, we all had to respond during the COVID period and most of us use fiscal balances that we had actually to stimulate the economy to make sure the bottom end of society are protected and we had the capacity to continue to move on. But that meant fiscal deficit widened quite dramatically and Malaysia in 2021, we hit the 6.4% fiscal deficit over GDP. And that was not a sustainable number and one of the key things that this government has done is actually to refine forward to say what we need to do is to find balance. The balance that we need is good fiscal discipline, but also the capacity to inject things into the economy that will grow it in the future, but more importantly also rebalance the economy that makes it future-proof. The future in terms of investing in the right segments of the market and making sure that it flows back into society. So we carry the whole society along. That's why under the Economy Madani framework, we talk a lot about lifting the ceiling, lifting the floor, because making sure it translates down to the bottom, makes sure it's sustainable going forward. And in that process, we take decisions. Some of it not easy, reducing fiscal discipline meant we had to retarget back uh subsidies in the country. And looking at it meant that we have to also address the fiscal base that we actually have, which means some tax measures that had to be put in, but always with the mind that whatever measure that we do is got to be balanced so that the impact of society can be contained along the way. And This year we're looking at 3.8% of fiscal deficit over GDP. Next year we're looking at 3.5%. So hopefully by 2028 we'll get to below 3%, which is our target. That's incredible. I mean, you know, America could take a leaf from Malaysia's book on that. Can you say anything about the, the political challenge of that because, you know, um. That's hard for me to imagine in the current kind of gridlock of of American politics, but Malaysia also has a very fractious political system with all these complicated different parties and coalitions. How was everybody able to agree on on those painful kind of uh uh measures of restraint? I guess the most important thing to understand is that we all have to accept the fact that we need to address fiscal deficits, yeah, because there are long term consequences of letting it go uncontrolled. The key then is to understand if you're trying to address what levels do you have to pull and what impact does the level that you pull have on society in totality. So the key measure that we've been doing in Malaysia is making sure that we get better targeting done. Yeah, so we understand that for example, in society, not all the segments of society are equally protected along the way. Some are much more affected than the others. So if you are going to to address subsidies, make sure you have targeting that actually gets it to the to the groups that probably need more support along the way. And start adjusting it to market practices for the groups that can take adjustment. So you've seen that happen when we address electricity in the country. So 85% of domestic consumers in Malaysia did not see an increase in electricity prices. The top 15% did, industrial and commercial did. You saw us also addressed it in. patrol, so we limited it only to uh citizens are allowed to get uh subsidized petrol and for diesel, we targeted also in the same similar manner where groups that were necessary to get support, we give support, the groups that had inflationary effects, we protected it, but the rest had to pay market price. By doing that, we address the arbitrages that exist in either commercial to residential and vice versa. We address the potential leakages in smuggling that actually occurred and because of that, we've got the ability to save. And if you do it well, you refine your process as well, you use data as the base of how you look at it, you can contain the effects in a better form and bank your savings. So in Malaysia, Uh, we've achieved about 15.5 billion ringgit of savings per year coming in from the measures that we've done. At the same time, we kept inflation at a low level. Today we are seeing about 1.5% inflation. The remarkable and, and what are the employment numbers looking like right now? Employment levels are pretty strong. We had about 3% unemployment rate, which pretty much full employment. Remarkable. Um, let's talk about what comes next and, and some of the challenges. I mean we've heard in numerous number of sessions here today about how Malaysia aims to kind of leapfrog to the frontier of the digital revolution that it's, it's investing incredible amounts in data centers in in light manufacturing, trying to figure out ways to kind of move up the. The the value chain, um, one of the obstacles to that of course is going to be figuring out how to provide enough power to keep all those data centers and manufacturing facilities running. I was just looking at some of the numbers here. They're kind of hard to get your head around, but I've seen analysts estimating data center uh electricity use rising from 8 to 9 terawatts today to about 68 terawatts by by 2030. And load ships going, you know, up by like 8 times. Can Malaysia supply that step change, that kind of step change reliably? I think you, you've got to understand where we began, right? When we began this journey in say 2020, 2021 when the early stages were starting up, we had very, very large reserve margin. Our reserve margin had gone crept up to about 55% of total capacity that exists. So there was an opportunity because the capacity was just sitting over there. But we had some structural things that we had to fix, so among the structural things that we had to fix was address the subsidies to make sure that it doesn't leak the way it's not supposed to leak. Second is to make sure that it induces the right behavior from industry. So if you notice the change in the power tariffs this year, we are now adjusting power tariffs every month. So when you do that, you allow the prices to catch up faster or decline much faster along the way, provides better certainty for for industries along the way. Uh, the third is actually to look at, uh, in terms of forward planning, what do we want. So the first rounds of data centers that came in helped build a critical base for Malaysia. The next round of data centers we said we wanted it with a bit more capability for Malaysia. We wanted it with AI, we wanted with a lot more regional providing services. So it helps build a sustainable business for Malaysia in the long term. And the third round of data centers that we want that. Plus we want you to also have things that reduces the consumption of power, better smarter usage of water along the way. So you build on your basis so that you can over time address the requirement. And going forward under our national energy transition roadmap, we have quite a clear direction forward how we are actually going to transition the economy into greener power. Part of it is actually renewables in the country, solar, hydro. Uh, part of it is also bringing in through the Asian power grid into supplying into Malaysia and then connecting it onto the wider grid of ASEAN. This is important because it grinds the grid, but more importantly, over time also it reduces the total capacity that needs to be injected in uh the whole ASEAN region. Net net, everybody gains. Right, you can do load sharing and uh uh that's that's very interesting. So, um. The renewables goals are quite ambitious for Malaysia. Can you say a little bit about what the what the what the current renewable capacity is, you know, what percentage of of energy demand is renewable in Malaysia right now and what's the, what's the goal by? I think the target is 2030, is that right? The, the, the country has adopted the net zero by 2050. We will get to net zero by 2050. In order to do that, the energy mix is likely to be about 70% of our energy mix must be renewable in order for us to get to that state. So what does it requires a lot. That's a lot, I agree. Uh, so one of the key things that we have to do is to transition it in a proper manner. Part of the transition means utilization of gas for the short term, have to step up and we remove coal as the base load fuel in Malaysia, and that's ongoing at this point in time. Every time a coal plant expires its contract, it doesn't get renewed. Yeah, going forward also as other coal plants and we also will not renew it but replace it with temporarily gas and over time put in renewable replacement. That includes hydro, which we have still some resources in uh Sean, Malaysia and a lot inrawa. And second, bringing renewables from Asia grid, yeah, and that's why we have now a memorandum of cooperation that connects Vietnam, Malaysia, and Singapore to bring 2 gigs of power along that line and we will use uh wind power from that site to incorporate in the country, push a lot more in terms of solar, bringing batteries at the same time to stabilize the grid and look at inducing better efficiency so that we can also reduce demand. Uh, based on growth that's coming in. I ask you about the push into uh higher value added in in uh in manufacturing. I mean, Malaysia is already a global powerhouse in assembly testing and packaging for semiconductors, and it's a top tier electronics exporter. Um, what has to happen to kind of step up to the next level in the value chain? What are the kind of critical factors that you see? Well, Malaysia didn't fall and got lucky in doing this. We built the, the ENE and semiconductor sector since the 1970s, early 1971 was when Intel first came into Malaysia, and over the years what we've been trying to do is strengthen the ecosystem that exists. So the more places that you have in, the more work that is built around supplying to the ecosystem, you build capability within the system. So now what Malaysia's next push is actually we want to go up the value chain a bit more. That includes advanced packaging, that includes also cheap design. So as this is going down that path, what we will have to do is to also prepare our workforce to be able to go up that path. We will also have to provide capital to allow venture capital to come in and PE to come in to support mid-tier companies to grow to be able to do it. But make sure as we grow it, the ecosystem gets bigger and more diverse and stronger along the way, and the government plays a role in that. It provides capital, it provides support in terms of training along the way. It goes out and looks at where can it strengthen infrastructure in the country so that the infrastructure can support the plants that actually come in whether you open new industrial land, you provide more power mechanism or water mechanism, it provides infrastructure that will support businesses. And hence a better planning and execution on that helps build the story move on. We've got just a couple of minutes. I want to get back to this idea of resilience. Uh, I wonder if I could ask you just for your quick take on, on, on these tariffs, you know, the tariffs that were announced in April have been rolled back to 19%. Uh, they're comparable to tariffs for Thailand, Indonesia, and, and, uh, you know, Vietnam is a 20% or something like that, I, I think, but sort of roughly the same. Uh, on the other hand, Singapore's tariffs are lower, and China's tariffs are probably higher, although that's kind of a Swiss cheese. It's very hard to calculate. Um, there's a carve out for Malaysia as well though, for, for chips, for pharmaceuticals. I gather palm oil is still kind of under discussion somehow that could really help a lot. How much headway do you feel that these tariffs are to Malaysia achieving its? Its its economic goals over the next kind of 2 or 3 years. I think there are a couple of things that we need to understand when we look at the supply chain for the ENE semiconductor space. The supply chain is a very globally connected supply chain. Disruptions to it causes quite a big backflow elsewhere. And if you look at the base that Malaysia has built, it is a base that has been built by Western and Chinese entities in the country. And the key was being able to balance both sides to be able to play an active role in supporting the mechanism. So our proposition to both is actually to say we are key to your long-term supply chain, we provide the intermediate goods that you need in the long term to support your growth. And we want to continue to be because we are a reliable partner to it. So the differentiation that Malaysia brings is its reliability, ecosystem, it's a supply chain mechanism that is very different than than most other players. We are not at the top end of the supply chain, which requires deeper capital base, deeper knowledge base, and so on. So we are not a threat to to uh aspirations of the US who wants to bring a lot of things back home, yeah. Neither are we at the bottom end of the chain, uh, which is not good enough margin for us. So what we are doing is stay in the middle but grow a little bit more of the margin take inside it and increase the complexity of the economy. And as we do more of that, we strengthen the value chain, the economy is able to sustain going forward. Well, I think we have gained a little bit of insight as to why Malaysia has managed to navigate all this turbulence so well. It has someone so knowledgeable and pragmatic helping to frame those policies. So I really want to hope you'll join me in thanking the minister and taking time to share his thoughts with us. Thank you very much so much.

In a world addicted to quarterly gains and viral hype, who’s still thinking ten years out? Visionary investors are being forced to rethink what conviction looks like—as AI, climate tech, and new frontiers collide to reshape global markets. Where should capital flow when disruption is the only constant? And what does it take to stay in the game when timelines stretch, valuations swing, and breakthroughs take years to pay off? This session dives into the new calculus of risk, patience, and purpose—where the biggest wins go to those bold enough to bet long when everyone else is chasing short.

The Long Game: Where Vision Meets Capital

In a market obsessed with speed, fast gains, fast pivots, fast exits, the real advantage may lie with those who think in decades, not quarters. AI climate breakthroughs and frontier technologies are opening new horizons, but they may only reap rewards for those who remain patient investors. The question isn't just where capital should flow, it's how long you're willing to stay the course. In our next panel, we'll explore where investors are placing their biggest bets across Asia and beyond. Please welcome Doctor Mahuti Jude, Deputy Secretary General of the Government Pension Fund of Thailand, Sandiaga S Uno, co-founder of Saratoga Investtama. And Johnny Joe, managing director of Primavera Capital. They'll be joined by Fortune Finance and crypto editor Jeff John Roberts. Please welcome. Hello and welcome everyone. I know we're in the sleepy part of the afternoon, which is a good thing we have a good topic how to make money. So that will hopefully make sure everyone stays awake for this one. I got some people who know a lot about this, and I thought just to get right into it, let's go with a topic on a lot of people's minds. Are we in an AI bubble? San Diego, do you want to start with that one? Uh, we are only at the start, so if there is some Valuations, uh, sort of like induce bubble that we're gonna take it's basically at the very early stage and some of the companies that are not adopting AI in terms of boosting their revenues and lowering their costs is the one that's gonna hit the bubble. Johnny, what's how are you looking at it? It depends on how you apply the technology. Uh, I think right now it's still very Uh, apply towards a very small limited group of people, uh, who knows the technology, having some sense of the technology, um, but it's never uh across the masses and if you don't apply to the masses, I feel like it's gonna be a huge bubble, but then you, you have hopes that the masses will adopt this technology and made it, um, you know, a universal technology that that could benefit the masses. Yeah, but for investment purposes, are you confident to invest right now or is it better to sit it out? Well, we're always confident to invest right now, otherwise, you know, you will be left behind. But, uh, you know, sometimes you need to be cautious because some people, they, they overpromise and that's an issue. Yeah, well, I'd like to bring you in here too. I think your position is a little bit different because you're managing a pension fund, so I think your risk exposure has got to be a little, little, you know, more conservative. So how are you thinking about AI right now? Well, I think that we have to trade off a risk return, and we still believe that I mean AI or tech stock is still the in the next. 3 to 5 years, I think we will still investing, investing in that sector, even though I mean it is really high for a year and that might be some, uh, I mean taking profit, but in the long run, we believe that tech technology is the support of the military, support of the economy and the superpower are gonna be. I mean raising each other between east and west. So it's gonna be important and then if it's gonna be uh uh adjust the price level down, we are gonna continue to invest. Yeah. And I think one way to look at this too is to look at the past. I mean this isn't the first time we've seen frothy markets, you know, the dot-com boom, it can be the mortgage boom, you know, real estate stuff like that. This is not new, but I think one thing that's key is how to think about it. So you know when you're playing the long game, Johnny, how do you sort of, you know, balance, you know, staying in there and you know, and you know how do you sort of stay steady during these frothy periods? Yeah, it's very tough to play the long game now because everybody is like scrolling through their TikTok when they're doing investments. So when they're having the mindset when they view investors or picking investors, they're like, OK, you need to perform 50% a year, otherwise I would choose a hedge fund or someone else. So it's very hard really for long term investors to prevail, I think. The key for us is to look at the mega trend, and the mega trend right now is one is the AI revolution, as you mentioned, and second is the rise of the global South, and for a lot of countries in the region that could benefit massively from this new wave of technology boom. Yeah, no, I think that's wise, how do you, how do you look at the, and I think it's interesting, but you've got investors with a Tick Tock attention span, but you're trying to invest for a decade, and that's that can't be easy. Are you find some of the same? Yeah, the long game. Well, we are now in November and Our economy is based on consumption, uh, and if you look at one of the months that people would spend a lot of money is uh end of the year, near Christmas break and during Ramadan. So now with the AI, you could already pinpoint uh the data that AI supplied to some of our portfolio companies is saying that 96% of consumers are already preparing. So you have a very ready market and 80% of them plan to shop more than last year and Half, almost 48% already use GNAI um to research for prices and products. So because you know that uh A sense of the where where the market is. When you want to play the long game is you have to go by by data. It has to be data-driven and this Gen AI has created an expert shoppers. So not only that you have to have the quality, but you need like experts convictions, people who review. People who give inputs and when you uh prompt, it, it will come out. So I think long game is not just about patience investing but making sure that you're making the right call. That makes a lot of sense. I want to pick up. On John's point about it is sort of investing in the global South, man, are you bullish? And let's talk about, well, since we're here, let's talk about the ASEAN region, Southeast Asia in particular. Are you bullish on the region as an investment, and what's the best way to get exposure to it if you are? OK, of course, uh, first we have, uh, only domestic tie, but now we diversify into develop market and Years ago we we are diversify to uh emerging market. We believe that I mean whether it's gonna be globalization or globalization, I mean the the East and the West is gonna have the same path, yeah, about the, I mean the the the the the the technology. So, so we have a location, separate location for for developed market and emerging market equity. And also in terms of a private market, we also have a uh a theme investment as well. Uh, so we, we believe we're gonna, we're gonna invest in the uh green and brown investment as well and when they enter to the market, uh, a private equity fund gonna uh. Invest in this team as well, yeah. How are you guys looking at it, bullish, bearish on South Asia? I think When you talk about the engine for growth, uh, Malaysia, in particular in Johor. It's going to be when you, when you look at the long game, it has to be like Uh, Johor for the data center, Indonesia for the green economies, and a lot of the carbon development projects and Vietnam, they represent a triangle of the new supply chain, and this actually is the story of Global South. So, I believe that the, the home of the long game is, is this region. Uh, now, how we We create a partnership, uh, and now you overlay the the AI how the public and private sectors could work together because in the past the the government tend to sort of like make regulations to confuse the entire, uh, I, I can, I, I come from uh government 10 years I spent my time in government and politics. Uh, we don't see this partnership with the private sectors, but now with AI and with the data. I think more and more, I think the sector needs the public-private partnership. Um, I think this region needs good entrepreneurs and for how to define a good entrepreneur for the next decade is really to how to combine AI with the industry we work in. Um, it doesn't matter how traditional it is, but if, if you can make a lot of uh transformation within your industry and based on your own country's sort of characteristics, I made a lot of. Adaptation, I think there will be a lot of good companies coming out of the region, but then if people stay very traditional and believe that, OK, I can just, you know, muddle through and stay behind and. I don't think there's gonna be a lot of great companies in this region, then the, the future is not gonna be great. So it really depends on how entrepreneurs react to the new wave of technology. Yeah, and so how do you get those entrepreneurs though too, because I know it's tempting to say, oh, the government should come in, and the government clearly has a big role, but I've also seen too much government. That's a good way to kind of, you know, sort of, you can, you know, hurt the entrepreneurial sector if the government's too involved. So how do you get that balance? Johnny and stick with you on that one too? Like what do you, as an investor, what do you like to see the governments doing? What do you not like them seeing? What do you not like seeing them doing? Yeah, I think government is always gonna be supportive and there's a, you know, new company and and doing great, right? But I think, uh, in order to breed a new generation of entrepreneurs, uh, you need to have a community and this community needs to be, um, so-called AI native and it's, it's not easy uh you need to find the like-minded people who, you know, believe that this new technology is going to transform every single industry. Uh, and you put them together, give them enough resources, uh, to, to, to breed their company and make sure from -1 to 0 and 0 to 1 they could be smooth enough and then it's the story of themselves trying to uh make, make the business work. Is that how you look at it, Santiago? Um, I think the uncertainty and fallibility, uh, in particular the last, uh, 12 months, uh, is actually great moments of, uh, anxiety, uh, and the knee jerk movement in particular by the governments, uh, when I was at the, at the public side is how you regulate. Uh, more. Well, from the private sectors, uh, that breeds on innovations, it's basically how you could have like a more sandbox approach that the private sectors can can grow through entrepreneurial spirits, taking risks, making more innovations and collaborations and, and proactively looking at At the next long game. So when you going back to your first question, the long game is not about chasing the hype, but the long game is, is actually focusing on this structural uh opportunities, uh, that, that exist. In terms of for us reaching out more to a wider audience, uh, while achieving it with a more efficient and and AI allow us to do it. Um, I think now the I agree with you. Uh, the government should, should take a step back and let this, this whole uh vision on long game uh established. We are still at the start. We're not yet even a quarter in, uh, and let the technology evolve. Yeah, let's stick with the harder topic here, geopolitics. We don't have to get into like specific things or who's wrong, who's right, but I think no one would disagree. Geopolitics, people talk about it a lot more than they did even 3 years ago. I mean, the American political system is looking shaky in some ways. Always, you know, you know, China and Taiwan, there's Russia, you know, but you know, is that something you can think of? I mean, I guess the world's always kind of been on fire to a certain degree, but when you're investing, do you try to hedge that, or do you just, you know, is that something you just kind of really can't think of? How do you think about that, man? Oh, well, I think. Just keep calm and be cool. Actually, I mean, your particular is gonna make disturb everything in the market, so no asset cost can be high. I mean, you have to accept the volatility, uh, anyway, yeah, but when you look at carefully, you will see that. They try to contain the war within the region. They try to uh prevent oil from rising. So most of the market is, is making new high. So if you are still risk averse, you're gonna lose quite a lot. So, so we have to. Turn back and and risk on again and we think that it's gonna be moving on. And on so, but, but, but I mean. Both A tech stock or a goal is going to be really high. You have to prepare that you're going to be taking profit, but, but it's going to be the for the next couple of years that I, that sounds optimistic that the market signals, the market will discipline the governments to calm down. I hope you're right. Is that how you see it, Johnny? Well, I think the same. I feel like, um, Money is important for every country and especially if you are a democratic country, uh, you need to deliver for your constituents and, um, so I think you know you just need to find where the value is, uh, rather than say, OK, geopolitics is gonna. Limit you, uh, by, by and large. I don't believe it actually. The the last decade, the whole geopolitical play has always been there, uh, from different trade wars and this and that, but the value is still there, right? Yeah, I guess that's a long game. Um, let's, uh, I, I can't help it because I write a lot about finance and also Bitcoin and commodities, so I'd be curious. I'm gonna put you guys on the spot, and you have to pick one. Are you more bullish on Bitcoin or gold? Goal I think in the long game that I have, not that I'm Also invested in gold companies, uh, gold, I could understand. Uh, I'm Not that smart and intelligent to understand crypto yet, but I'm studying from my daughter's friend. So I believe that uh gold has more like fundamentals because it is uh still the, it has a character that people understand, but crypto more and more now people, Gen Z and probably Gen Alpha would be more familiar with than the gold, which is a thing of the past. Um, but going back to AI, I think more and more companies now taking the plunge early, um. And crypto, uh, it is also educational if you take the plunge early and try to understand it and make allocations based on the education value out of it, um. And for us as a company that don't go into funding cycle anymore, uh, because we have sort of like a permanent capital, we could take more of a long game, taking our time in terms of building a strong AI game, uh, invest in people. Invest in a system that rewards uh strategy that could show um a good sustainable return 5, 1015 years down the road. And now because of AI we need to keep our relationship direct, uh, no longer with us. I, I do want to stay, I think your points are valid, but I do want to stay on the gold Bitcoin question. You gave me a very definitive answer. You're, you're a gold man. How about you, man? What's your, your, uh, well, you have to answer one or the other. Well, uh, actually, personally I, I like both, but as government pension fund, I'll say go. If you're running a pension. Well, yeah, I think in in the long run, I mean there are turmoil around the world, so central bank have to accumulate gold because they are worried about the dedollarization as well. So go and this year we review our SAA. Gold used to be a commodity, but now we separate to another asset class which is a defensive because you know we hedge the terror risk from geopolitical risk. Yeah, makes sense. Um, it sounds like you like both, but you know, if you're running a pension, probably the gold, OK, um, how about you, Johnny? What's if you had to pick one or the other? I'm bullish on neither neither. I will pick. Like a currency that is based on electricity generation, I feel like everything will be based on electricity for the next decades to come, whether it's AI or whatever. So if you put a bullet in my head and say you definitely need to choose, and I'll probably choose Bitcoin because it has the potential to be like a proxy for electricity-based currency, but, uh, if Bitcoin doesn't go that way, then I think neither of them will be successful as the asset class going into the. Next 10 to 20 years to come. I think it's it's a very interesting answer. You're right, because we were talking about that last night. Everything electricity used to be the most boring investment. Utilities were a boring stock and now it's like they're they're they're very hot. But just for this region here too, what if you had to invest in the energy sector, are you guys, you know, long on coal or you know what, what is, you know, how do we solve this problem of getting enough electricity? How do you think about that, man? Oh, well, I mean, as an institution investor, we apply, I mean ESG and we announced that a net zero target in 2050. So I mean coal is the industry that we try to reduce our portion. Yeah, alternative energy. I mean those kind of sectors that we're going to move into new and renewable energy, um, solar. Geothermal, uh, and, and basically now we have an emergence of uh biomass and like I said earlier that you want to keep the relationship uh very close because Southeast Asia is home of uh the green economy. So when you keep Your relationship direct to uh all this uh exposures is going to be make it very, very simple, and I think simplicity wins when you talk about electricity and and energy supply. Yeah, when we talk about the green economy, it's not just making the wind turbines or the solar panels, right? It could be related to, uh, construction materials because in the past and all these constructions made, uh, is, is not very energy efficient and then, you know, going into the next decade if we made new houses or new uh uh sort of office buildings can can that be incorporated into the story, right, um, and I think that is huge actually in terms of from a. Um, from a commercial perspective, so we're not just looking at, you know, green energy itself, but the whole economy needs to be aware of the, you know, making it green and energy efficient. That that's interesting because you're all bullish on green energy, yeah, because you know in the US right now there's been a backlash against it, but it sounds like you guys are all, you know, I guess in playing the long game that no one's denying that's where it's going. Um, let's finish up on an optimistic note. Tell me at one sector, and you can't say AI, Name another sector that you are optimistic about for investing over a 10 year period. You can start on. You only have 10 seconds, we're out of time here. So, I think I like equity. I mean in general equity, yeah, because uh GM and the bond and interest rate is going to be low for for for long, so only, I mean we have to accept volatility and but we review a long term risk in the, in the long term. So, so long term you bullish equities green economies across the board and asset class and also healthcare. Green Economies and healthcare and uh take us home, Johnny, what's your, what are you here? So one man company. I'm investing a lot of one-man companies, one man companies, yeah, startups. OK, yeah, great, uh, great source of answers. OK, please give our panelists a hand. Thanks very much. Thank you.

The electrification of everything–from transport and manufacturing to AI and data centers– is pushing power grids to their limit. Across Southeast Asia and beyond, the pace of new energy demand is outstripping the capacity of existing infrastructure, threatening to bottleneck growth just as investment surges into clean tech and digital economies. And it’s not just about building more wires: it’s about building smarter, faster, and often across national borders. For ASEAN, where regional integration is essential to competing as a next-generation energy and data hub, the challenge is as much political as it is technical. Can countries coordinate quickly enough to deliver the grids the future demands?  Or will ambition run straight into the hard limits of transmission?

Grid or Gridlock?

What happens when the most tireless, literal-minded, data-obsessed member of your team isn’t a person at all? As agentic AI systems begin to play active roles in decision-making, strategy, and collaboration, they’re no longer just tools—they’re colleagues. Some may even end up managing projects or giving feedback. Are companies prepared for the shift from automation to participation? And are humans ready to work under the watchful eye of a teammate who never forgets a deadline, never needs a coffee break, and just might outshine you?

C-3PO is My Boss

As chief executive of JCorp, the investment fund for the state of Johor, Datuk Syed Mohamed Syed Ibrahim is a key leader in the effort to build and develop Ibrahim Technopolis (aka IBTEC), a sprawling, 7,000-acre “innovation corridor” strategically positioned next to the Johor-Singapore Economic Zone. IBTEC aspires to create a vital economic gateway that attracts high-impact industries from around the world—including data centers, advanced manufacturing, and the life sciences— to a master-planned “smart city” that embraces the principles of sustainability and the “circular economy.” It is an undertaking that is at once visionary and vast. How does one build an innovation corridor? More broadly, how do bold ideas move beyond pilots to become regional and global game-changers? What are the critical enablers that transform ambition into scalable success?

Innovation Without Borders: Scaling Ideas for Global Impact

So thank you to our panel for those great insights. Hopefully you're all taking notes, uh, and you've got some practical, uh, to do lists when you leave, uh, today and go back to your offices. Um, moving on, innovation today not only demands scale, but the ability to connect ideas. industries and markets across borders. Johor's proximity to Singapore and the growing momentum of the Johor Singapore economic zone positioned it as one of the most dynamic frontiers for cross-border collaboration and investment. For more on this emerging innovation corridor and its tremendous economic potential, please welcome Jahor Corporation CEO Daok Sayed Mohammad Sayed Ibrahim. He'll be interviewed by Fortune's Clay Chandler. Thank you. Thank you. Doctor say, please, thank you. Well, it's a real privilege to have you here uh on the Fortune stage and uh it's uh with your support that we are here. um, we're really fascinated and, and interested to talk about, uh, what's going on at at IBTech. Can you, can you give us the kind of vision for IBTech and maybe sketch for us a sense of, of what this is gonna look like in 5 or 10 years' time. Uh, we have to reimagine. We're talking about uh new buzz of words that we have been using all this while. We have to reimagine in 5 years' time, if tech is not just going to be a blueprint on paper, it is going to be alive, it is going to be uh uh uh uh a fully operational living lab and uh there will be a lot of people who are actually working through a Uh, develop their products and it is actually a place for the products to be tested and launched in the real city environment. Uh, and I feel in the 5 years' time also, uh, it is going to be a place where uh researchers, global firms, uh, and also universities in fact can work together, together with the industries. Uh, to tackle the challenges of food security, green energy, digital future, uh, for them to come up in fact up with something that can be tested. Uh, in short, in fact, is going to be a test, a testbed of opportunities for the stakeholders you know, to work on. And um APEC is going to be in 10 years' time. Uh, I talked earlier just now in 5 years' time. Uh, in 10 years' time, IEC is going to migrate to become not just an innovation hub, uh, but a thriving innovation corridor where IEC is going to be uh the nexus of that corridor. This is a really interesting concept. So it's not just data centers, it's all forms of innovation across many, many sectors. I mean how, how did this uh plan originate and, and maybe you can sketch for us the strategic advantages that it that it offers. Uh, it started with a simple question, uh, that we ask ourselves, you know, how can we change your whole industrial base into an innovation hot bit. And when talking about innovation, we uh we look at what Singapore across the causeway, what Singapore has done in fact to transform from a small island trading hub, uh, in 60 years' time to become a global innovation powerhouse. Uh, it took a lot of great, uh, relentless experimentation and close partnership between the public and public sector. Uh, to make, uh, what they have achieved now. And coming to uh EEC, we see that there is actually an opportunity for both Malaysia and Singapore together with Johor, especially. Uh, to capitalize on the, the dynamics, the opportunities, uh, uh, the, uh, the building blocks, uh, in, in, in Singapore as well as in Malaysia, while Johor offers land and scale, uh, Singapore offers capital and speed. So this is the opportunity that I feel, uh, we need to impact to capitalize and where, uh, we, we, we can complement each other. And uh and in in tech, uh there is actually a big playground, so to speak, uh especially in fact for not just the industry, but for innovators to uh to work on. I like that term of a playground. I mean, so you, you've studied Singapore very closely, but I know you've spoken about studying other successful innovation hubs, uh, as well. Silicon Valley, Munich, the Knowledge Quarter in London, Barcelona's VCity. I mean, what have you learned from these other hubs, for example, in Shenzhen, when we look at Shenzhen. It is the power of infra policy uh and also capital when they move in one direction, in fact you can actually create that kind of spit and momentum which we have not seen in the history of the success of a global special economic zone, uh, and, um. Uh, London, knowledge quarters, um, and the Munich, uh, for instance, in fact can issue the collaboration between the university and the industry, uh, and it has created a spark of creativity and innovation and, um, and Barcelona, Barcelona is unique, in fact, it is um the Uh, livability and urban design is not an afterthought, uh, and it is, uh, it offers a place whereby, uh, people, they, they are able to get talent and retain talent, and, um, Silicon Valley, Silicon Valley, it is not just about the economy, it is about the cultural phenomenon that has been able to uh track talent. Uh, and also, in fact, it, it, it creates a culture of tolerance for failures, uh, which is actually quite unique. And for ITech, we are not just copying and pasting and, uh, we are creating something that is actually unique within the context of, uh, uh, where we are in the in, in, in, in Johor in Malaysia, uh, and also in, in that region, uh, where we feel that in fact you know it has to be something different. Uh, it should be leveraging on the power of digital connectivity that we have. So we are mindful of the fact that, uh, uh, the critical building blocks, you know, in an innovation ecosystem, uh, is not really there, you know, in Johor in it. Uh, but in Singapore, they are, uh, in those innovation, global innovation hubs, they are, and we hope that uh the digital connectivity and it would be able to bridge, uh, where we are and back with those global innovation hubs, and that to me, in fact, you know, it is actually something that is exciting and also at the same time, Etech is an open source for innovation. You know, it's students of these, these other hubs and, and of innovation, uh, there's a bit of a debate among people about whether innovation hubs can actually be built or whether they need to just Naturally evolve and so for example with Silicon Valley, you know there is a very large group of people who argue that the reason that it works is because there was no master plan. It just kind of organically formed itself, but there's a there's another debate that says no, that's ridiculous if not. From substantial leadership from even the US Department of Defense, there wouldn't have been the business for them to get going in the first place. So there's this kind of back and forth. I mean, where do you come down on this debate as to whether you know something like an innovation corridor has to be planned or organic? Well, Silicon Valley is the first generation, you know, of science or innovation park and it evolved and we learned the evolution has given us in fact some lessons and um the short answer to your question is that in fact, yes, it can be built, but In order for it to be built and to be successful, it must have three interdependent foundations. The first is the physical infrastructure. The first, the, the physical, without the physical infrastructure, it will not be in fact. Possible to even think about building an innovation corridor or even uh what you call innovation hub. Uh talking about linkages, you talk about in fact the dig digital, you know, uh, or broadband infrastructure, data center. Uh, that's #1. Number 2, it must have an open digital infrastructure, so there should be interoperability, you know, of a system, uh, so that it operates in like an operating system environment and thirdly, uh, which is critical. Enabling institutional framework. Uh, we talk about, um, public-private partnership, you know, we talk about sandboxing, you know, of regulation, uh, and, uh, this is very important to ensure that the three interdependent foundations, uh, must in fact be in place, uh, so that the innovation corridor can be built and successful. Fascinating. So all of those three critical pieces. Involve large groups of stakeholders in various ways. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, uh, JCorp's role in this and, you know, what it does to kind of provide leadership in in tech. OK, uh, Jaco came up with, uh, the idea of turning this vision into reality, uh, and, uh. We are not just the developer in this case because if tech is not positioned as a real estate project. Uh, we, we do not want this to become a pure in a property play. Uh, we understand even though it takes about 7000 acres, you know. Uh, a massive project, you know, that has, that has never been done, uh, in that kind of scale, uh, but quite focused in terms of the sectors, you know, that we are going to target because it represents the transition, you know, from the current economic structure, you know, to the new economy, uh, that is number one. we put our vision into plan and number 2, our role is the developer, you know. Uh, we can't run away from that real estate part, you know, uh, we have to put our money where our mouth is, uh, and, uh, number 3, we will not just develop it, but we are going to also put in, uh, our investment, uh, in catalytic projects, uh, which is quite key, because without this kind of anchor project. Um, there is some hesitance because we are operating in a relatively greenfield area, right? Uh, so, uh, in order to convince our potential investor, uh, we are going to put money, uh, in anchor projects that would be able to catalyze, you know, not just filling the gaps and or creating, in fact, you know, the building block in the supply or the value chain of each sector that we have identified to be developed at the effect. Interesting. So 7000 acres, I mean, it's, it's a vast, uh, you know, enormous swath of land, um, and, uh, definitely a huge opportunity at the, um, and this is, this is adjacent to the special economic zone, right? It's not inside it, but it's the proximity to the zone that gives it a strategic advantage. Um, I wanna ask you a bit of a different question, um, you know, innovation. I sometimes, I mean very frequently described as something that's a process that's inherently disruptive. Um, decades ago, the, uh, Austrian economist Joseph Schumpeter wrote about this phenomenon of creative destruction. And this year the Nobel Prize in Economics went to 3 economists who empirically tried to prove his theories about uh creative disruption. What's your thinking about that? Is this, is this gonna be a smooth transition in in creating this, this innovation corridor, or is this, do you worry a little bit about the disruption that comes along with it? Well, disruption is inevitable when they talk about uh the dynamics of economic growth, uh, but, um. We feel that we need to be more humane. So it should not be destruction, it should not be destruction. It will be destruction, but I would in fact prefer at JO that we call it creative renewal. Because as we disrupt, as we disrupt, you know, we have to make sure that in fact, you know, there is still place, uh, an opportunity for those that are going to be disrupted, uh, from, uh, a new workflow, uh, for instance, uh, and that is why in fact we have set up uh our uh uh our Johor Skills Development Center, uh, which is actually part of the Johor, uh, Talent Development council. Uh, where the, um, the responsibility is to identify and what would be the kind of courses, uh, that would meet the requirements of uh the uh the industry as a result of digitalization. So you talk about rescaling, you talk about upscaling. Uh, and you even in fact you know, um, um, work together with partners to provide the courses in in data center management, uh, which is new, in fact, as far as you're always concerned. So, uh, we like to um think and also in fact um remind ourselves, uh, that when we move on with the technology, uh, it is, um, The right thing to to think is that you know, it will be creative renewal. Really interesting. I love that phrase, uh, creative renewal, um, you know, we, we've structured many of the, uh, discussion sessions and conversations in this program around the, the idea that there's a kind of duality in duality in the, in what's going on in the global. Economy right now that there's there is a lot of disruption there's a lot of change um some of the fundamental institutions of the global uh trade and investment system are, are being shaken, you know, redesigned, knocked down and destroyed in some cases, um. And that's on top of all this technological change, um, and I think it's easy to get really pessimistic about that and say, oh, you know, change is scary, um, what will we do, um, but I think that there is also this kind of underlying idea which is sort of a schumpeterian idea that it's that change that unlocks opportunity and, and the secret is to find where the opportunities are within that, you know, that churn and and and uh. And how to create renewal from, from chaos. I mean, I wonder if you could just reflect on that a little bit. Is that kind of how you see what's going on at this moment in the global economy? Does it create opportunities for Joe Horn? Well, in every chaos, it draws the map of opportunity. So as far as we are concerned, in fact, the Malaysia seem to be neutral, uh, and, uh, we, uh, we are located in this part of the world, uh, and recently, in fact, um, you have seen the ASEAN and APEC, uh, how we are able to navigate, uh, the geopolitical tension. Uh, by building bridges, uh, we built, in fact, uh, what we call bridges with the global North and South, uh, we also built, in fact, uh, what we call collaboration uh with uh. Uh, other, other countries in the world, and, uh, where we are located, I feel, in fact, you know, it is actually something that we are, we, we are grateful, uh, we are grateful because uh we, we connect in the those um north and south, east and west. Uh, while at the same time, uh, our region also offers a lot of opportunities when they talk about, uh, infrastructure, they talk about political stability, and, uh, these are in fact, uh, critical, uh, uh, elements and or or features that in fact, you know, is, uh, important to, to draw an investment in. Uh, and, uh, we are near to the east, uh, we are not that far to the west too, so we are blessed, you know, while at the same time, in fact, we would like to make use of what we have to capitalize on the opportunity so that uh there should be a collaboration for growth, you know, so this. It's actually a region. This is a region in fact, we would like to um to uh position ourselves, uh, by, you know, um having um this opportunity to, uh, all parties, uh, where you are, you know, that, uh, this is actually a place in fact where you can come in, uh, and uh you can make money, you know, uh, out of infection of your investment. Do you, do you envision that there will be a big increase in the, in the just the number of people who live within the, in the corridor? What are your thoughts about that and how many of them will be from Malaysia and how many of them will be from abroad? Alright, I feel in fact uh we we have been hearing about talent just now, yeah, yeah, uh, so talent mobility is critical, uh, so in order to get this place up and going. Um, that is, uh, one thing which in fact that we need to enable. So the current institutional framework needs to be, uh, forgiving and more accommodating, uh, so that, uh, there should be free mobility, you know, in terms of talent and uh where we have, in fact, you know, we have got a lot of people here in Malaysia, and so the immediate uh uh task is to retrain, you know, some of our people. Uh, to make sure that in fact they are given opportunities uh for the new, uh, industries that will be operating. Uh, at the same time, the, um, some parts of the, uh, uh, workforce, uh, where we are, uh, do not have, uh, what do you call that kind of skill. So this is where we are in fact kind of going to um work to. other and with the industries and also the government, uh, to be able to attract, you know, uh, this kind of people. Obviously, in fact, you know, ultimately, uh, there will be an increase in the number, you know, of, uh, that kind of workforce, you know, that will be working in this part of the world, huh, and I know you've, I mean we have a number of conversations in the program about about skills and how to train people, and I know that's a big priority for uh for Johor as well and then Jacob in this operation. Um, Well, that's about all the time we have. I wanna thank you so much. This has been really enlightening. Uh, I've been out to tech. It's, it's extraordinary. I've seen all the plans and it's, it's very impressive and very carefully thought through, and so we look forward with great interest and enthusiasm to see what you'll be able to accomplish. Thank you so much.

Fortune 500 firms have touted their AI ambitions for more than a decade—and most ramped up those claims dramatically after the 2022 rollout of ChatGPT.  But the reality is that, so far, few global companies have much to show for their AI investments. MIT estimates that 95% of AI pilots miss their targets. Morgan Stanley warns that investors are pricing in gains few firms can deliver. Research from McKinsey and the World Economic Forum points to brittle data systems and tangled operations as choke points. A handful of companies seem to be breaking through those obstacles. What's their secret?

The Execution Gap

Open-source AI drives innovation, challenges monopolies, and expands access—but it also exposes vulnerabilities, empowers bad actors, and accelerates risk. Governments, companies, and civil society grapple with where to draw the line, and who sets the rules. In Southeast Asia, the launch of China’s DeepSeek raises urgent questions: will access to cutting-edge AI unlock regional potential or deepen dependency? And can the region chart its own path in a shifting landscape?

The Great Divide: Open vs. Proprietary

The AI revolution has far-reaching implications for how the leaders of large global organizations will communicate with future stakeholders. On the one hand, new technologies will enable executives to reach more audiences—investors, employees, regulators, media—more efficiently than ever and speak to them in their language with a message precisely tailored to their interests and concerns. But those same technologies are  fraught with risk of deep-fakes, fraud, and damage to trust. Similarly, the rapidly advancing capacity businesses, both large and small, to collect, analyze and act on data on the movements of customers and employees is creating huge new opportunities—and ethical hazards. Ambient AI, biometrics and "always‑on" sensing will transform cybersecurity and employee privacy.  Lurking further over the horizon: AQ (the fusion of AI and quantum computing), fusion‑powered energy and off‑planet data centers. What do these shifts mean for ASEAN’s infrastructure ambitions and for leaders trying to build capability, not just cut costs?

Beyond AI Strategy: Digital Clones, Quantum Futures, and the Internet of You

AI is only as powerful as the stack beneath it. Compute, chips, data, and energy are becoming the decisive factors in who can build, scale, and sustain intelligent systems. But how much infrastructure will we really need—and who’s prepared to run it? As build-outs accelerate, operators face tough choices about capacity, efficiency, cooling, carbon, and even something as fundamental as cable management. In this session, technology and infrastructure leaders explore what it takes to keep pace with runaway demand while keeping costs and complexity in check.

The New Power Stack: Building the Infrastructure of Intelligence

The Johor–Singapore initiative marks a bold step in cross-border economic cooperation. Designed to catalyze trade, innovation, and industrial growth, it could transform the causeway from a chokepoint into a fast-moving conduit for capital, talent, and ideas. Turning vision into value will require careful coordination on policy, regulation, infrastructure, and trust. For investors and businesses, the opportunity is real—but so is the complexity. How will this experiment in regional collaboration unfold, and what lessons can Southeast Asia draw for broader integration?

Fortune Innovation Forum 2025

Beyond Boundaries: Reinventing Hospitality and Leadership

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Videos (31 videos)

Beyond Boundaries: Reinventing Hospitality and Leadership

New Corridors for Growth

Are Climate Talks Dead?

The Future of Food: Can Innovation Outpace Crisis?

Networking Lunch - Greed, Fear, and AI

Banking the Next Billion: Digital Transformation in Southeast Asia

Still the One? Can the U.S. Dollar Remain the World's Reserve Currency?

In the Money: Can Emerging Tech Democratize Finance - Without Destabilizing It?

Battle of the Bourses

The Skills Mismatch

Asia's Balancing Act

Lunch Strategy III - From Lab to Launch: Fast Tracking Innovation Across Southeast Asia

Lunch Strategy II - Chinese Medicine for the Modern World

Lunch Strategy I - The Making of a Smart Nation: Inside Ibrahim Technopolis (IBTEC)

Gala Dinner - The Science Behind a 185-Year-Old Brand: A Conversation with Malina Ngai, Group CEO, A.S. Watson

Financing Asean's Green Transition

The Appetite Revolution: How GLP-1 Drugs are Reshaping Food, Health - and the Future of Consumption

Healthy Returns: Investing in Asia's Care Economy

AI vs. MD

Live Long and Prosper: How Insurers are Using Data, Technology, and Behavioral Science to Extend "Healthspans" - and Deepen Relationships with Customers

Malaysia's Economic Strategy: A Conversation with Finance Minister Il Datuk Seri Amir Hazmah Azizan

The Long Game: Where Vision Meets Capital

Grid or Gridlock?

C-3PO is My Boss

Innovation Without Borders: Scaling Ideas for Global Impact

The Execution Gap

The Great Divide: Open vs. Proprietary

Beyond AI Strategy: Digital Clones, Quantum Futures, and the Internet of You

The New Power Stack: Building the Infrastructure of Intelligence

Straits Talk: Causeway to Collaboration