Walmart on Thursday hosted more than 300 workplace experts and representatives from other companies participating in the Skills-First Workforce Initiative, a project to develop and fill stable jobs based on what people know how to do instead of whether they attended college.

The retailer already has launched its own employee trainingand certification programs to meet Walmart’s need for truck drivers and maintenance technicians, two roles for which U.S. companies say they can’t recruit fast enough as experienced tradespeople retire.

Walmart says it plans to offer a similar AI skills program next year through a new collaboration with OpenAI, the company behind ChatGPT.

The Associated Press sat down with Walmart CEO Doug McMillon at the company’s sprawling headquarters in Bentonville, Arkansas, to talk about AI and the American workforce. The interview has been edited for clarity and length.

AP: What’s your view of the overall health of the job market, given the uncertainty about tariffs and the economy?

MCMILLON: I would say pretty much a steady state. Turnover numbers are coming down. I’m remembering what happened during the pandemic and relative to that experience, things feel much more stable now. I think the pace of change in the employment market is just smaller and easier to manage.

AP: What are the biggest factors affecting Walmart workers? Fear of AI, or their paychecks not keeping pace with inflation?

MCMILLON: We continue to invest in wages. So I think that’s helping some, and that process will continue. As it relates to AI and the future of employment, I think for the most part, our folks are enthusiastic about it because they’ve seen new tools that they’re receiving that are making their jobs better. That’s helping them take fewer steps.

And our sales are growing so much. I think people are optimistic about the future of what their life can look like.

AP: Which jobs might be eliminated or added because of AI?

MCMILLON: I think no one knows how this is going to play out exactly. And the way it feels to me is that basically every job gets changed. And I think the best way to think about it is getting “plussed up.” So how can I lean in the role that I have, regardless what that role is, to adopt new tools, leverage them and make things better than they would’ve otherwise been?

As I look across our company, we have everything from store associates to supply chain associates. Of the 2.1 million people (globally), something less than 75,000 of them are home office jobs. All the other ones are working in a store, a club, a distribution center. And I think those jobs change more gradually. We are still going to want to serve customers and members with people. The change as it relates to the home office jobs probably happens faster.

AP: When will you have a clearer idea?

MCMILLON: I don’t know there’ll be a moment where we all have clarity. I think the way for all of us to approach it, especially here at Walmart, is just in a very transparent, honest, human, straightforward way, talking to people real time about what we’re learning and what we’re doing and why we’re doing it. That’s the way that we plan to lead through this.

AP: Do you think AI will result in fewer workers at Walmart?

MCMILLON: One of the biggest areas of change in the last decade is related to associates that work in our stores, picking orders for delivery and pickup for our customers. And we have something north of 200,000 people doing that job, and yet we have about the same (total) number of people working in Walmart U.S.

How did we do that? Other tasks and other jobs changed, which enabled us to create new jobs that paid more and have fewer of the older jobs that went away. I hope what happens as we lead through this is that there will be pluses and minuses, but the net ends up being even more people because we have more ideas of how to grow.

AP: What do you think are the most coveted skills?

MCMILLON: The first thing that comes to mind is store managers. Being a store manager is such a great job and such a challenging job. And it’s a job that pays well, and it pays well for a reason. You’re interacting with the community with large numbers of people. You have a large number of associates. You have big sales numbers to deliver. And those skills that the store manager has are both human and technical. I think the skills that we have as human beings are valuable. They always have been, and that’ll be even more true in the future.

AP: Why are there shortages in roles like maintenance technicians?

MCMILLON: To some degree, it’s a lack of awareness. I think most Americans probably don’t know what a tech makes that helps take care of our stores and clubs and that we can help them learn how to be a tech. The same thing’s true for our drivers. So we have a need to get the word out so that people know there are some great jobs.

AP: Do you think Walmart will be able to fill such gaps as the immigrant pool shrinks?

MCMILLON: We’ve been able to do that so far, and I expect that we’ll continue to find great people that want to join the company and our turnover rates are down, which is helpful.

AP: How critical is this initiative focused on skills-based hiring?

MCMILLON: I think as we all work to learn and navigate the future towards a world where AI fulfills its promise, the best way to do that is to work together and to share information and learn together. It’ll speed up our ability to get ahead of this so that we can do a better job of setting our associates up for success. And that’s ultimately what we’re trying to do. The change that’s happening in the world is going to happen. Our choice is to lean in, learn (and) help lead so there are better outcomes for everybody involved.