That might sound like a head-scratcher at first read, but the former Amazon CEO and current executive chairman discussed how he maximizes meeting productivity at the New York Times DealBook Summit on Wednesday. 

Bezos’s six-page meeting memos have long been the stuff of corporate lore. For those unfamiliar, he disseminates a lengthy epistle at the top of a meeting and allows executives 30 minutes to peruse it. Upon completion, they regroup to discuss the content and embark on a shared objective. This approach, Bezos said, prevents executives from coming in with prepared platitudes, fostering a “messy discussion” where curiosity abounds and meeting members meander from topic to topic.

“I like the memos to be like angels seeing it from high. It’s so clear and beautiful, and then the meeting can be messy,” said Bezos. “I want the meetings to wander.” 

Because of the messy nature of his meetings, Bezos admitted they usually run late. But he’s fine with that outcome because these meetings tend to spark creative idea generation and encourage collaboration. “The only meeting I’m ever on time [for] is my first meeting, because I won’t finish a meeting until I’m really finished,” he said.

To discourage groupthink and prevent top executives’ opinions from influencing other attendees, the most junior person speaks first, followed by the next most senior, and so on. Bezos acknowledged that he, too, can be susceptible to others’ opinions: “I’ve realized I’m a very easy person to influence. I change my mind a lot, but a couple of a percent of the time, no force in the world can move me, because I’m so sure of something.” 

So what exactly constitutes a messy meeting? Bezos said it allows participants to wander in discussion, get into the controversy, and share dissenting opinions. In fact, Bezos so prefers messy meetings that he becomes skeptical when they seem too structured. He recounted an Amazon meeting that he knew was clearly rehearsed. “I could tell by the little tiny cues,” he said, adding, “I told them, ‘Don’t do that again. You don’t need to.’” 

Bezos doesn’t want to feel like employees are pitching him or his executive team a fully fleshed idea or concept. He’d rather be part of the action. “You want to be part of the sausage making. Show me the ugly bits,” he said. 

But Bezos warned that not all meetings should be messy. His weekly business reviews, for instance, were more formulaic at Amazon and had a preset agenda. Meetings about selling a new product should not be messy either, he said. “You want all of your ducks in a row, and you want to put your best foot forward.”

Meetings are also an opportunity to deepen relationships with employees, Bezos said, noting that he makes an effort to speak candidly about changes that are needed or when he feels scared about the company’s ability to successfully deliver on a project. Yet he added that while it’s fine to express negative emotions, an optimistic outlook is a must for leaders, especially entrepreneurs.

“I don’t know how some glum, Eeyore-type founder could ever lead a company to success,” he said. “You’ve got to have some energy, and it’s got to be a little contagious. There’s going to be a lot of bad days, [so] you’ve got to lift people up.”