A successful CHRO-CEO relationship has perhaps never been more important. Together, they can create a solid company culture, attract top talent, and help employees become more engaged. But getting other C-suite executives to listen to ideas, much less implement your policies, can be tricky.

Executives at large companies, including Amazon, JPMorgan Chase, and Goldman Sachs, have recently stirred controversy by mandating a full return to the office, regardless of how their employees feel about it. Last week, over 500 employees signed a letter to the Amazon Web Services CEO, Matt Garman, criticizing the company’s RTO mandate from three days a week to five. The moves highlight how CEOs can put CHROs in a tricky position, stuck between what workers want and what the C-suite demands. 

That’s why it’s never been more crucial for CHROs to understand how to work with the C-suite, advocate for themselves, and help CEOs understand the perspective of their employees.

Fortune sat down with the chief people officer of HR tech company Lattice, Gianna Driver, to discuss how the CHRO role has evolved, how to drive change at your organization and why it’s more crucial than ever to have a good working relationship with your CEO.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

How is the CHRO role evolving?

I think many of us in the HR space would agree we have been asked to do more with less. If you look at the percentage of our budget as a percentage of the overall, I think over the years, we see statistically that that has been a smaller percentage.

HR of the past was hiring, firing, and performance management, that was it. It was a necessary administrative thing. Now we live in a world where that is no longer the case, and I think for us to continue to thrive, we can’t be the administrative paper pushers. We need a seat at the table to be a real strategist, and that’s why the relationship with the CEO [is] so important.

Why is it important for CHROs to have a strong working relationship with their CEO?

The last several years have been really trying for HR professionals, and there’s no end in sight for the change. I would even say we should anticipate that the rate and level of change is going to remain constant, if not increase. This is why the relationship that a CPO or CHRO has with the CEO is mission-critical. Yes, the CEO is the leader of the organization, but we now live in a world where there’s an understanding of the shared responsibility in terms of caring for the well-being of our people. 

I spent considerable time with Sarah [Franklin], my CEO, before joining Lattice because I wanted to make sure that we could speak openly and freely and that I could indeed have a seat at the table and come from a place of influence. I’m not interested in being a glorified administrative assistant. Thankfully, we’ve built a great relationship so when it comes to topics like RTO or benefits, she and I can have a very clear-eyed, authentic, open conversation where we can disagree but ultimately come out of those conversations with a clear action plan.

How does a CHRO best encourage a CEO to make changes in their organization?

I encourage the CHROs to lean into data. Instead of simply telling CEOs that employees are unhappy, provide hard evidence that points to why. For instance, if we mandate a return to office, here is how that is going to affect our turnover. 

When we’re able to come to the table as HR professionals with information and data as business people, that allows the CEO to lean in and not ignore it. I think that CHROs are often less comfortable with data and quantitative thinking. But those who can effectively make the business case using data are the ones who are usually able to get additional budget priority and consideration.

Now, at the end of the day, the decision that my CEO or board makes is the decision that we’re going to go with. That said, alignment doesn’t necessarily mean agreement. We’re not final decision-makers for some of these things. You and your CEO will disagree, and that’s normal and healthy. When those disagreements happen, what I care a lot about is making sure that I represent the voice of the people to the CEO. I care a lot about being heard, recognized, and valued.

Brit Morse
brit.morse@fortune.com

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Today’s edition was curated by Emma Burleigh.

Around the Table

A round-up of the most important HR headlines.

KPMG laid off around 330 staffers in its U.S. auditing business and the company looks to rectify its current situation of low voluntary turnover and pandemic-era overhiring. WSJ

Some companies are shying away from public diversity events and enlisting advisors to help them avoid appearing “woke” amid DEI backlash. NBC News

After Boeing offered its third contract agreement to striking workers, CEO Kelly Ortberg said they better take it or the next proposal will be “regressive.” Quartz

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