For the CEO of a trillion-dollar global bank, Jamie Dimon doesn’t pull any punches.
“We are dimwits when it comes to policy,” Dimon said of the country’s political officials while speaking at the Heartland Summit, a conference for leaders in the middle of the country that is taking place in the small city of Bentonville, Ark., where Walmart is headquartered. Dimon was on stage speaking to Olivia Walton, a former reporter and the granddaughter-in-law of Sam Walton, the late founder and CEO of Walmart.
Dimon referred to former President Donald Trump’s statements around the 2020 election as “treason,” and the CEO noted how Democratic leaders in some parts of the country refused to meet with him, “like somehow I will taint them and send them to hell” because he runs a bank.
He’s trying to get a point across to American business leaders: “Get involved.”
Executives should get active in policy, Dimon said, at both the local level and the national one. He encouraged corporate leaders to speak out on issues like the Jan. 6 riots at the Capitol, the murder of George Floyd, and the widening income gap.
“If you’re in a position of power, we have to do that,” he said of taking an active role, adding later: “If we don’t get this right, the Western world is at risk.”
Dimon criticized tax breaks on carried interest and golf courses and stated that the country has “left behind 20% to 30% of our society.” He made no mention of the potential overturn of Roe v. Wade—a hot-button topic nationally, and particularly in the state of Arkansas, where the summit is being held. Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson, who is slated to speak later on in the day at the summit, last year signed a bill that would ban nearly all abortions in the state, and Arkansas is set to ban abortions should the Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade. Hutchinson has said he is weighing a presidential bid.
In response to a question from Walton, Dimon toyed with the idea of running for the office of president himself, although he said he didn’t think he would win. “I don’t think I could get a Democrat nomination or a Republican nomination,” he said. “I really believe I could beat Trump.”
Dimon said business leaders need to be reading important voices from both sides of the aisle, naming David Brooks, George Will, and Tom Friedman, and he advised attendees to reject the idea that things are binary: “The real world is a lot more complicated than that,” he said.
But Dimon is very clear about one thing: “I’m not woke,” he said.
Update, May 12, 2022: This story was updated to clarify a quote from Jamie Dimon.
Sign up for the Fortune Features email list so you don’t miss our biggest features, exclusive interviews, and investigations.
