• Home
  • Latest
  • Fortune 500
  • Finance
  • Tech
  • Leadership
  • Lifestyle
  • Rankings
  • Multimedia

Trendingnow

1

Mark Cuban says he has the solution to growing income inequality, and it's to reward every employee—from CEO to janitor—with company stock

2

‘I want to die broke’: Billionaire philanthropist Denny Sanford dies after giving away $4 billion

3

'Dr. Doom' Nouriel Roubini says we're headed for universal basic income or 'some form of socialism' as AI revolutionizes work—He calls that optimistic

1

Mark Cuban says he has the solution to growing income inequality, and it's to reward every employee—from CEO to janitor—with company stock

2

‘I want to die broke’: Billionaire philanthropist Denny Sanford dies after giving away $4 billion

3

'Dr. Doom' Nouriel Roubini says we're headed for universal basic income or 'some form of socialism' as AI revolutionizes work—He calls that optimistic

Bartz and Ballmer on the Yahoo/Microsoft search pact

By
Jon Fortt
Jon Fortt
Down Arrow Button Icon
By
Jon Fortt
Jon Fortt
Down Arrow Button Icon
July 30, 2009, 8:30 AM ET
Add Fortune on Google for similar content.
Yahoo CEO Carol Bartz and Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer pose for the cameras after doing a search deal. Image: Yahoo

Soon after Yahoo (YHOO) and Microsoft (MSFT) announced their search deal on July 29, I spoke with Yahoo CEO Carol Bartz and Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer about the market’s negative reaction, the benefit to the bottom line, implications for affiliates, and comparisons to Google’s (GOOG) much-maligned ad deal with AOL (TWX). Below is an edited transcript.

The Street seems to have mixed feelings about this deal. Were expectations too high with people expecting boatloads of money up front, or are people misunderstanding how good this is for Yahoo?

Bartz: It’s probably a little bit of both, and I think there’s a third element too, Jon, which is I don’t think people quite understood that with regulatory and implementation, the cost savings for the company are a ways out. I think that just wasn’t something on the minds of folks who wanted a quicker flip. But at the end of the day, what we’ve got here is virtually all of our revenue at no cost, because Microsoft is bearing the cost of the technology. And that allows us to focus on other aspects of our business like growing the users, growing the audience, and growing mobile, growing display. Which, by the way, should grow search advertising.

Ballmer: I’ve gotta say, I’m surprised at the market’s reaction. If you said to a man from Mars who just arrived: Somebody gets 88% of their revenue, close to 100% of gross margin, and they’re going to get rid of R&D operating expense – it sounds like a lot of money to Yahoo and to Microsoft. So, the man from Mars would think this is a pretty good deal.

Is it 24 months before you think you’re getting that $500 million operating expense savings and $200 million capital expense savings?

Bartz: First of all we have to get through regulatory, which we hope happens in the beginning of 2010. Over the following 24 months some costs will be reduced. But we said that no more than 24 months after the deal closes, all the costs are finally off our books and Microsoft is powering the search and we’re powering the salesforce.

Ballmer: Hopefully if we do our jobs right, the bulk of that comes a lot quicker. The bulk starts in the U.S. and then fans out globally.

A question about data. Carol, in the past you’ve said a lot about the importance of search data, but also in this announcement you made a point of saying there will be limits on how much data is shared between Yahoo and Microsoft. Is Yahoo going to get as much visibility into search data as it has now, and will it be in as good a position to do display ad targeting and measure outcomes? Or are you making sacrifices to do this deal?

Bartz: No, we get the same data. It’s just that we’re not looking at Microsoft’s data and they’re not looking at our data. In fact, that was one of the strong negotiating points, to make sure we had access to the data so we can do the targeting and all that work that you do to provide great ads to customers.

Can you be more specific on that? It seems to me that Microsoft would need to see all of the data to get the benefit that it needs to continually improve search in general, and that Yahoo would want to see all of the data to figure out how to pair that with display.

Ballmer: Search data for improving the search product, which is anonymous, will absolutely – that’s our data. All the data that improves the search product, we will use to improve our collective search product. As it relates to personal information that somebody thinks they’re providing to Yahoo, that’s Yahoo’s, and they expect Yahoo to use it in certain ways. Targeting, whatever. That’s the privacy policy that Yahoo establishes with its customers. And similarly Microsoft establishes a set of privacy policies on the rest of our site, including Bing.com, with our customers.

On deals like the one Microsoft has with Facebook, how would that, if at all, be affected by this deal? How would similar deals be affected in the future? Will it be Yahoo negotiating those? Will Yahoo get any cut of those? If Yahoo negotiates a deal like that, will it get 88% as if it were an owned and operated site?

Ballmer: Microsoft has two deals with Facebook. We have a deal where we are a partner selling display ads – that is unaffected. It may be an area where we compete with Yahoo occasionally because we both like to sell people’s display ads. We’re also the search provider to Facebook. That’s a deal that we did, Yahoo’s uninvolved. Yahoo has its own set of affiliates for search, and we will be a vendor to Yahoo as they serve their affiliate partners. We will be embedded in what Yahoo goes and offers to its affiliate partners – it’s their relationship with their affiliates, and then we will have a back end business deal that applies.

Bartz: Whether it’s owned and operated or affiliate, Microsoft gets 12% for powering the search. But the 12% is on the revenue Yahoo gets. So let’s say we give the affiliate 30 points and Yahoo only gets 70. Microsoft gets 12% of the 70.

What’s the plan on execution to make sure that this works? Does planning start in any form before regulatory approval? Who’s taking the lead on that relationship? How will the teams combine?

Ballmer: All of the things that are permitted under regulatory regime – which includes planning – we will do all the things that are permissible. I’m not a lawyer, Carol’s not a lawyer, we’ll probably just say that.

Bartz: It’s really just planning. As far as who takes the lead, it’s a partnership. So, just as there was a deal team there will be an implementation team involved with both companies to move the marketplaces, not only the algorithm part of the search, but the paid or sponsored part of the search.

Folks out there are saying Yahoo runs the risk of pulling an AOL here, if it outsources too much key technology. How do you sum up Yahoo’s growth story in light of that kind of criticism?

Bartz: First of all, there’s a huge difference between Yahoo and AOL. AOL has no flexibility over their experience. They just get delivered what Yahoo delivers – which, by the way, is different than on the Yahoo site.

So we have full flexibility over the Yahoo user experience, and we can innovate on top of that. We’re reliant on Microsoft for innovation, but also reliant on us to innovate on the customer experience. I would say the other difference is we really focused on this as a partnership, so in the selling, Microsoft’s powering the technology – I would say that AOL/Google experience is much different from that.

But back to the investment: The fact of the matter is that with half a billion people coming every day to a Yahoo site around the world, this actually gives us a better chance to take the money we’re saving and get more audience. We can get more audience because of better properties, stronger entertainment properties. We have all kinds of ideas. We can focus on display advertising technology. Again, this is about freeing up good money to focus on other areas that will not only help Yahoo but help the search relationship, because more people will be there willing and able to do a search.

Ballmer: Just a couple of comments on the AOL deal. That was a three-year deal. This is a 10-year deal. Clearly quite different in character. AOL had not much of a Web business, it was mostly an Internet access business, and as it has declined in Internet access subscribers, not surprisingly, it has also declined in search volume. Yahoo has the largest Web business on the planet media-wise.

So there’s no reason to hit the bumps AOL hit. The timeframe is a different timeframe. We also have a different level of partnership, data sharing and product parity. We essentially have in our arrangement assurances that the best of Bing is available to Yahoo in this implementation. Arguably, you could say Google did not give AOL their best work.

About the Author
By Jon Fortt
See full bioRight Arrow Button Icon
Add Fortune on Google for similar content.

Latest in

Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025

Most Popular

Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Finance
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam
By Fortune Editors
October 20, 2025
Fortune Secondary Logo
Rankings
  • 100 Best Companies
  • Fortune 500
  • Global 500
  • Fortune 500 Europe
  • Most Powerful Women
  • World's Most Admired Companies
  • See All Rankings
  • Lists Calendar
Sections
  • Finance
  • Fortune Crypto
  • Features
  • Leadership
  • Health
  • Commentary
  • Success
  • Retail
  • Mpw
  • Tech
  • Lifestyle
  • CEO Initiative
  • Asia
  • Politics
  • Conferences
  • Europe
  • Newsletters
  • Personal Finance
  • Environment
  • Magazine
  • Education
Customer Support
  • Frequently Asked Questions
  • Customer Service Portal
  • Privacy Policy
  • Terms Of Use
  • Single Issues For Purchase
  • International Print
Commercial Services
  • Advertising
  • Fortune Brand Studio
  • Fortune Analytics
  • Fortune Conferences
  • Business Development
  • Group Subscriptions
About Us
  • About Us
  • Press Center
  • Work At Fortune
  • Terms And Conditions
  • Site Map
  • About Us
  • Press Center
  • Work At Fortune
  • Terms And Conditions
  • Site Map
  • Facebook icon
  • Twitter icon
  • LinkedIn icon
  • Instagram icon
  • TikTok icon
  • YouTube icon

Latest in

A family crisis inspired Bill Ackman to spend $260 million to create a massive brain research institute in Manhattan
InnovationBill Ackman
A family crisis inspired Bill Ackman to spend $260 million to create a massive brain research institute in Manhattan
By Jeff John RobertsJuly 21, 2026
1 hour ago
Kid watching social media
PoliticsSocial Media
France adopts bill to ban kids under 15 from using social media
By The Associated PressJuly 21, 2026
1 hour ago
Jamie Dimon says insecurity, not ego, is what destroys the careers of top CEOs
C-SuiteJamie Dimon
Jamie Dimon says insecurity, not ego, is what destroys the careers of top CEOs
By Marco Quiroz-GutierrezJuly 21, 2026
2 hours ago
Christopher Nolan interacts with fans at Odyssey premier
Arts & EntertainmentHollywood
‘He’s an analog man in a digital AI world’: Nolan’s ‘The Odyssey’ made back its $250M budget in 3 days without industrywide AI cost cutting
By Mia OsmonbekovJuly 21, 2026
2 hours ago
Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis
AIEye on AI
A FINRA for AI? The idea from Google DeepMind CEO Demis Hassabis is gaining momentum. But is it any good?
By Jeremy KahnJuly 21, 2026
2 hours ago
Two students stand next to each other and look at the papers they are holding.
AIEducation
Study finds AI boosted homework scores 18%—then tanked exam results 20%
By Sasha RogelbergJuly 21, 2026
3 hours ago

Most Popular

Mark Cuban says he has the solution to growing income inequality, and it's to reward every employee—from CEO to janitor—with company stock
Success
Mark Cuban says he has the solution to growing income inequality, and it's to reward every employee—from CEO to janitor—with company stock
By Sasha RogelbergJuly 20, 2026
1 day ago
‘I want to die broke’: Billionaire philanthropist Denny Sanford dies after giving away $4 billion
Success
‘I want to die broke’: Billionaire philanthropist Denny Sanford dies after giving away $4 billion
By Sydney LakeJuly 20, 2026
1 day ago
'Dr. Doom' Nouriel Roubini says we're headed for universal basic income or 'some form of socialism' as AI revolutionizes work—He calls that optimistic
AI
'Dr. Doom' Nouriel Roubini says we're headed for universal basic income or 'some form of socialism' as AI revolutionizes work—He calls that optimistic
By Jason MaJuly 18, 2026
3 days ago
The Treasury is walking a tightrope on U.S. debt by relying so much on short-term rates that are at the mercy of a suddenly very hawkish Fed
Economy
The Treasury is walking a tightrope on U.S. debt by relying so much on short-term rates that are at the mercy of a suddenly very hawkish Fed
By Jason MaJuly 20, 2026
1 day ago
Current price of silver as of Monday, July 20, 2026
Personal Finance
Current price of silver as of Monday, July 20, 2026
By Joseph HostetlerJuly 20, 2026
1 day ago
Jamie Dimon won't put more of his own money into the long end of the bond market right now—thanks to the $39 trillion national debt
Economy
Jamie Dimon won't put more of his own money into the long end of the bond market right now—thanks to the $39 trillion national debt
By Eleanor PringleJuly 21, 2026
9 hours ago

© 2026 Fortune Media IP Limited. All Rights Reserved. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy | CA Notice at Collection and Privacy Notice | Do Not Sell/Share My Personal Information
FORTUNE is a trademark of Fortune Media IP Limited, registered in the U.S. and other countries. FORTUNE may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website. Offers may be subject to change without notice.