In the weeks since officially joining Trump’s legal team, Giuliani muddled Trump’s lines on the Stormy Daniels scandal, and even suggested that former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen may have paid off other women on Trump’s behalf.

Now he’s admitted that his repeated mention of the so-called ‘Spygate’ scandal is a PR tactic to sway voter opinion—and help stave off the president’s impeachment.

Speaking to CNN’s Dana Bash on State of the Union on Sunday, Giuliani discussed what Trump and his team are calling ‘Spygate,’ an as-yet unproven allegation that the FBI infiltrated the Trump campaign for political purposes.

Citing a CNN survey that showed a 15% drop in the number of Republicans who want Trump to testify in the ongoing Mueller investigation, Bash asked whether Giuliani and Trump have “a very specific, very political strategy to undermine this investigation.”

Giuliani first denied that Spygate is a strategy intended to discredit Mueller’s investigation, but then did agree with Bash’s assertion that the tactic has “helped erode public confidence” in the investigation.

Bash then prodded Giuliani further, calling it again “an intentional strategy to undermine the investigation.” She noted that it’s the policy of the investigators and special counsel “not to talk,” thereby creating an imbalance in which only Giuliani and other Trump allies are “very free” and open to talking.

Giuliani didn’t deny that he was taking advantage of this asymmetry. Instead, he claimed that “they [Mueller’s team] are giving us the material to do it.”

“Of course, we have to do it in defending the president. We are defending, to a large extent, remember, Dana, we are defending here, it is for public opinion, because eventually the decision here is going to be impeach or not impeach.”

“Members of Congress, Democrat and Republican, are going to be informed a lot by their constituents,” Giuliani continued. “So, our jury is the American—as it should be—is the American people.”

Due to the possibility of FBI infiltration and other revelations, Giuliani therefore claimed that Mueller’s investigation is no longer legitimate. But he didn’t take a Trump/Mueller interview off the table.