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Daisy Ho, Managing Director of SJM Resorts, S.A., takes the stage to open the Fortune Leaders Forum Macau with the event's keynote address.

Daisy Ho, Managing Director, SJM Resorts, S.A.

Opening Keynote | Fortune Leaders Forum 2026

Conferences

Mr. Lee Williamson, distinguished guest, good morning. Lee, thank you for setting the tone for our discussions today and together with your fortune colleagues for bringing together leaders of such exceptional caliber. It is a great pleasure to welcome all of you to Macau and to the Grand Palace. This is the first Fortune Leaders Forum to be held in Macau. And SJM is proud to serve as host partner to an organization that for almost a century has been one of the world's most respected voices in business. I believe our theme, leadership in the age of convergence and complexity is particularly resonant today as it features, as it captures a paradox that many of us experience firsthand. No generation has had more information, more computing power, or easier ways to connect. Yet business leaders often find it harder, not easier to see what lies ahead. Why is this so? The reason is not simply that change is accelerating. Economies and industries are also now so tightly connected that when one part sneezes, others could catch cold. In such an environment, leaders must understand not only the decision before them, but how it will affect and be affected by the wider world. When we must deal without complete clarity of the future, clarity of purpose becomes decisive. Decisions will be taken at different times by different people and under different assumptions. Yet purpose remains the one constant, the North Star that keeps everyone moving in the same direction. For Macau, being at the center of a collusion of forces is nothing new. We have long connected East and West, China and the world, commerce and culture. Our city's identity was built through exchange, and our progress has come from an ability to turn changing circumstances into new opportunities. Among Macau's integrated resort operators, SJM is the only one with roots in this city. For more than 6 decades, we have walked alongside Macau from the opening of its tourism market in the 1960s through the handover, the liberalization of the gaming industry, the years of the pandemic, and the city's integration into the Greater Bay Area. At each stage, we learned that progress did not depend on knowing exactly what came next, but on recognizing what was worth carrying forward. Our foundations are in gaming and hospitality. But as Macau continued to evolve, we looked inward at the strengths we have built over decades and how we could make them relevant in the new era for Macau. Gastronomy is a strong case in point. Long before it was widely recognized as a defining part of the travel experience, our founder, my late father, Doctor S Stanny Ho, invited the legendary Joel Rubuchon to open, to open Rubichon Aguilera at Hotel Lisboll in 2001. When the Michelin Guide arrived in Hong Kong and Macau in 2009, it became the first Western restaurant across the two cities to receive 3 stars, placing Macau firmly on the international culinary map, and has retained those three stars for 18 consecutive years. From that beginning, we have built a dining portfolio that together with our parent company now hosts 10 Michelin stars across 8 establishments, the highest total in Hong Kong and Macau. In the process, SJM has become a cradle of culinary talent, a proud contributor to Macau's standing as a UNESCO Creative city of gastronomy and giving the world another compelling reason to experience our city. The same spirit also lies behind our longstanding involvement in the Macau Grand Prix, the International Dragon boat races, the Macau Golf Open, and many more events that are deeply woven into the histories of both SJM and Macau. Over the years, we have helped nurture them, expand their intention international reach and establish them as signature features of the city's tourism calendar. Importantly, the value they create does not stop at our doors. Our support for cultural traditions help keep them alive in the community. The international events we champion bring recognition and opportunity to the city, and our investment in people helps local talent grow and flourish. Visitors experience Macau as a whole, and we are one part of that whole. What held us together was the conviction that SJM success is inseparable from Macau's. That conviction has allowed us to look beyond the immediate return from a restaurant or sporting event and consider the wider value each can create for Macau as a destination. It is also why lending our full support to this forum is so meaningful for us. At a time when no single industry posses all the answers fortune has brought to Macau, leaders who might not otherwise share a table. This exchange will not only strengthen our our city's role as an international center for business dialogue and collaboration, but its substance is directly relevant to Macau's next chapter. Today's discussion on technology and talent, finance and health, travel and destination economies, and the future of the Greater Bay Area all touch upon Macau's 1 + 4 diversification strategy. Their relevance lies not only in each field individually, but in the connections between them. And those connections matter as much to the economies represented in this room as they do to ours. Therefore, on behalf of SJM I thank fortune for bringing this forum to Macau, and I thank all our speakers and delegates for contributing your experience and perspective. This evening, the Grand Hall will bring together 6 of our Michelin recognized restaurants and the chefs behind them. What I have described this morning is better experience than explained. I hope you will also find time to enjoy the city itself, and that you leave with a sense not only of what Macau has been, but of what it is becoming. Thank you.

What do the world’s biggest companies get right—and wrong—about AI? Corporate AI whisperer Allie K. Miller shares the most urgent insights from her work consulting across industries, revealing how enterprises and individuals should think about scaling AI responsibly, sustainably, and competitively.

The Fortune 500 AI Forecast

Good morning. And amazing to see so many clients out there. Have I told you that you look beautiful today? We are going to be talking about change management, and I want to kind of start it off with a little bit of a hot take. I want to stir the pot. If we could get the slides on, we will be able to kick it off just yet. The hot take that I want to share with you all. Is that AI is not a tool, and I actually think that calling it a tool ends up being a little bit of borderline self-limiting behavior that is holding enterprise all around the world behind and that they're actually stuck. Uh, AI is a weird thing. AI is a little bit closer to like an alien or a beast, and it is actually leaning into that weirdness where leaders can gain an unfair advantage. So why is it weird? Unlike traditional software software 1.0, where you would put in one input, you'd get the exact same output done. AI allows you to reason, adapt and respond. Now that method of working opens up. Four ways of working with it. What are those 4 ways? What are those 4 interaction modes? The first is AI as a microtasker, AI as a companion, AI as a delegate, and the big one AI as a teammate, and I want to show you what each of these looks like. The first is AI as a microtasker. Every single one of you has used it this way, at least where we're asking trivia questions like which came first, Fortune magazine or the FIFA World Cup. We can give it a perfect 18 page prompt for the greatest M&A dashboard of all time. And we can ask it for songs and audio and video and infographics. We get back that trivia question. Fortune magazine came first in case anyone was curious. We get our beautiful dashboard that would make me cry with joy, and 90% of your employees are stuck in this mode, and so many employees think that they are an AI super user when all they are doing is asking AI to write their mean email in a slightly more polite way. And this is holding companies back and actually your annual subscriptions are made worthless because people are stuck in this mode. So let's talk about the others. AI as a companion which Joe talked about is the ability. To work real time with AI side by side where it codes with you, edits with you, talks live with you. I'm kind of obsessed with this one, sees what you see, and this is where AI becomes a lot less transactional, where I am assigning something and a lot more relational that real-time collaborative work. And some people have taken the term companion a little bit too far. Uh, I'm not advocating for work husbands, work wives that are digital, uh, but we'll save that one for like a new TLC show or something. The third interaction mode is AI as a delegate. This is when you are assigning large tasks, maybe they're 40 minutes long, and you're then getting it back. We can see things like inbox management. I know people who have fully offloaded their inbox to AI. They spend 1 cent a month and they don't even touch their own inbox. There are people managing workflows and of course very complex multi-step AI. This is me using an agentic browser and asking Chat CBT to build me an entire AI avatar video with me not even making a single click. This is really where job transformation is moving into real task reallocation, and most companies have not even gotten to this stage. We're going to talk about one more though. That is AI as a teammate. Now, I started in AI almost 20 years ago. And this is one of the most underrepresented, underutilized, and forgotten modes because it kind of only started about a year ago because of AI's performance. Two examples engineers from OpenAI are treating codecs inside of Slack as a teammate, pulling it into trap threads, working all together, and second, maybe AI is sitting in on your meetings, fielding questions, taking action. Now the big difference for AI as a teammate is that AI is lifting up a system or a group and not the individual. This is where AI is helping your entire engineering team or every single person in that meeting and lifting up the system. That is the big difference here. What are you optimizing for? And this is AI as operating infrastructure. We are going to have AI agents and systems that are sitting where we work slack Zoom Teams, what have you and they will be ambient they will be gathering information and importantly we will no longer be prompting AI. I don't know if people have quite come around to this AI will be prompting us because it will be in our systems and helping our team as a whole. So all of this, how do you actually operationalize it and what do I wish more leaders were working on? That is a brand new mental model that every single leader has to curate at a company level. You guys have heard of MVP, minimum viable product. I'm not gonna have you raise your hands, but I assume it's 100% because we're an SS. We are gonna take that methodology and we're gonna apply it to the world of AI agents. Because the capability that everyone has to now build out is carving out safe, minimum viable autonomy. What is that small safe bet that you can work on company wide, and I'm gonna break out how to carve out space for this. I have about, you know, 2 minutes to solve all your world's problems, but we're gonna talk about how you can get it not just with your engineering department but all departments, and I'll give you a template that you can steal as well. So this is kind of the core checklist for MVA or minimum viable autonomy. You are going to scope it tight. You are going to keep a human in the loop. Maybe it's just as a final check. You're going to keep it modular so that as AI changes every week or hour or minute that you can adapt with it. You're going to know your risk thresholds and we're gonna talk about that in a bit. And most importantly is logging and measuring everything and figuring out if AI is good or not, and that last one matters more than you think. Why? Because evals, figuring out whether AI is good or not is the new product requirement. We are no longer giving step by step perfect instructions to these AI systems. We are going to provide goals and boundaries and rules, and AI systems are gonna work from the goal backwards. They are going to check their work against our goals and so instead of defining these perfect 18 page prompts, we are instead giving it the sphere that it is going to work within. This is goal oriented AI. This is a fundamentally different kind of software than we are dealing with today. The capability that everyone should be working toward now until we have AI built into the hardware in our brains, which I'm sure is going to come like tomorrow or something, is agent protocols, and I want to give you some examples. Clawed skills is the ability to teach AI how your org operates in one way and it remembers it forever. I built out a. skills that uses an AI first index assessment. This is over 700 lines of directions, code, templates, resources, examples. I've trained this clawed skill, and I can now run an entire assessment on how AI first a company is in minutes. And this is something that used to take me weeks. Agents. MD, which is much more in the coding space, is from OpenAI. This has been used on over 20,000 GitHub projects, and what I love, one of their best practices as they're giving AI tasks, they group them into always do, please ask first and never do, and I love AI agents with healthy boundaries. My therapist would be so happy. So one template to steal, this is how I'm bringing it to not just engineers. This is a preview of something that I share with clients and as you're going through this template, realize that it actually takes hours or maybe even days to fill this out. This is not a quick one off prompt. This is architecting AI teammates throughout your company. I want you to be thinking about how to document the human process today, how to measure it. What the compliance requirements are that your general counsel becomes your best friend. I want you to be thinking about, uh, checkpoints for AI and what responsibility you can give these AI agents. I know companies that allow AI agents to spend up to $1000 without anyone checking it. I know companies that have an even higher spend limit for AI agents. OK, not only think about that, but when to escalate to a human. This is how you have safer and responsible AI use. And also, until we have self-learning AI, how are we optimizing these AI systems? Now I mentioned risk thresholds before. Importantly, as you're building out your agent protocols across your company and leaning into MVA. I want you to take about 70% of them on low risk tasks, about 20% on complex cross-department tasks, and about 10% on strategic tasks that change the structure of how you work. 70 2010 and this template can be used across all of them. Now, I'm gonna give you some final predictions here. These are 3 bets that I'm making and happy to argue with anyone during lunch as I'm eating some sort of sandwich. OK, 3 predictions. Number 1 is that AI will likely continue to get better. And what would I do about that? I would lean into MBA, build out that autonomy portfolio, and figure out how to move out of the polite email prison and move into AI as a delegate and AI as a teammate and lean into that weirdness. The second prediction is likely in the next several months AI will be able to work autonomously for over 8 hours uninterrupted. In order to take advantage of this, knowing that it's likely coming, I would pull together your employees and start thinking about use cases that take advantage of this and running some sort of MBA hackathon or agent hackathon and require that through that process they write out an agent protocol. You can even come up with your own template. The coming out of this, you are not only going to have an employee workforce that is trained on AI agents that knows how to use your tools and that is excited to be able to work on this, you are also going to walk away with a perfect stack of agent protocols for everything in your business, and that can be used to train new people, to use brand new AI systems immediately without having that start friction. The third is that the cost will likely continue to drop on today's level models as you are thinking about how to take advantage of what is to come, where are you using one query today? Where in the future maybe you instead use 1000 queries or 100,000 queries, and what would that change about businesses today? Maybe you're gonna build out hyper relevance, hyper personalization machines. Maybe you're gonna build out mass simulations for every market launch you do in the future. These are the three changes that I am taking a bet on. Now, of course, we don't exactly know what the future of AI will bring. We don't know how fast it will come, and we don't know what will happen when it does. But the bet that I am taking is that AI is not just a tool. And the organizations who continue to treat it like one are going to wonder over the next decade what happened. Thank you.

Robots that can reason. Cars that can cogitate. Hot off the heels of Qualcomm's announcement that it would take on Nvidia and AMD in AI chips, the company's auto-industrial-IoT chief deciphers where AI is going next.

Let's Get Physical

All right, um, well, we're just staying backstage listening to the end of that panel, and I, I imagine you, Nicole have some thoughts about, yeah, I mean, the, the prediction of the last speaker was the sales cycle for embedded AI is gonna be really long, it's gonna be really hard, um, you know, these devices are not going to come. on as fast as everyone thinks. What's, what's your view on that? Well, if you think about Vemos and Tesla FSD and Zoos, it's taken about 10 years. If you think about where the ecosystem was in 2015, and it was really pre-transformer. It was really pre what we call the next generation we are today. And 10 years is a pretty short period of time for the type of adoption that society has for things like driving, which is all about. Uh, what you need from a day to day perspective, it needs to be safe. It needs to be reliable. Uh, I think the next 5 years is going to move even faster. I think there is an adoption in society that robots are going to be amongst us. Cars is where it starts. I think robots are going to become much more pervasive than people think. All right, uh, so one of your responsibilities is automotive for Qualcomm. Give us a preview of what kind of intelligence are we actually going to see in our cars in the next, uh, let's say 5 years. So I think for us, you know, as a as a chip company, what is really important is that you are able to change the architecture of the platform rapidly. That is starting to happen. If you think about the chips that are going into cars today. They are 10, 50X sometimes even compared to what you might have seen 5 years ago. Uh, we are building everything that gets deployed with an AI surface area, whether it is for the cockpit, whether it is for driving. And the rate at which AI is evolving, these are all becoming applications that you get deployed. So it really just comes down to how deeply understood is the opportunity at the automaker, and then it comes down to which automaker is far enough along to be able to take advantage of it, but the underlying technology, the infrastructure, that's all available. If you look at the rate with China is evolving, especially with the EV transition with the, you know, tech companies who also build EV products. That's probably where it's moving the fastest, but we are starting to see the same thing happen in other parts of the world. Yeah, and is it going to be mostly, do you think sort of driver assistance technology or other sorts of what are we gonna see? Probably both. Uh, we launched our first uh. Driver assistance stack with BMW in September. So we started to build our own stack. We launched that, and that's across 60 countries. Now I was listening to Joe's comments on guardrails and safety. I think it's very similar. It really comes down to you have to be able to rely on the product that you're purchasing from a safety perspective because it is a core essential part of what it is that you're buying the product for. Now, over time, as you get more data. The lines between what is pure air versus what is guardian's blur in the context of a car, but to be able to deploy at the diversity that a product like a car is sold in multiple countries. We are now in 60 countries. It took us 3.5 years to get there. We will be in 100 countries by the end of next year. So to be able to guarantee something that is regulated, something that needs to work without fail. That requires a set of guards that are rules based and then add the layers on top. And how much of this can actually be done on on platform on the car, in device. I mean I know Qualcomm had this position that a lot of intelligence is going to be pushed to the edge and certainly in driver assistance in areas it has to be on the edge because of the latency. um, but as you know, these larger models which are developed, you know, deliver these frontier capabilities on reasoning, those things right now have to be delivered in the data center. How do you see this evolving? It depends upon the use case, you know, if you think about the businesses that I'm in, um, automotive has a A real-time nature to it in the context of ADAS, that's all running local. There is nothing running in the cloud. And then there is the cockpit aspect of automotive which is a combination. It's a hybrid. Part of it runs in the car, part of it runs in the cloud. So it's hybrid depending upon what you're trying to do. I kind of equate it to search. If you want to search for something that that needs to be accurate, it couldn't potentially run just at the edge. On the other hand, if it's Fast real time safety critical, it couldn't run in the cloud. I think that's a very easy way to kind of define what the spectrum is. Robots, very similar things that require an aid for information that is sitting in a database in the cloud, obviously has to go to the cloud. Interesting. Qualcomm, you've made a number of acquisitions in the past year, I guess you're selling backstage of 5 acquisitions. I know Edge Impulse is one of them. Can you talk through what, what, why, why this acquisition spree, what capabilities have you brought in with these acquisitions? So you know, for us as a company that has been doing smartphones for really most of our history, and we've been known as a smartphone application processor, communications company, what was really important was to be able to start to figure out how do we change the DNA of the company to transform towards other industries. We started on the automotive side very organically, but especially as we start to look at where the new ideas are going to come from. They are not likely going to come from the traditional customs that we serve. So we took upon ourselves this mandate to really bring in a brand new culture. We acquired Arduino two months ago that gives us access to over 30 million users globally. Uh, we acquired Edge Impulse in the summer and and that gives us access to an MLOps pipeline for training for the Edge. What we are trying to do with these acquisitions is to be able to take our products, make them part of these ecosystems, allow these developers to be able to build on our silicon with open platforms, with open interfaces, and that allows us to be able to get, get closer to the use cases, right? Absolutely, um, I'm gonna come to the audience for questions in a minute, um, so. Have a question, get it ready. I wanted to talk about what other kinds of platforms do you think we're going to see. There's a lot of discussion about, you know, is there going to be a kind of a new device to interface with AI? There's been all kinds of talk about necklaces. OpenAI is building something. We don't know exactly what, what, what's, you know, you have a good insight into this, I'm sure. What, what do you think is the kind of The device is going to be for AI. So you know, I think with robots, I think the new AI is about applying AI to the physical environment, and there isn't, I think that's still very early. That isn't something that has been defined yet. But if you think about the context of uh personal AI where the AI that is running on your person has to be able to have a really good idea of what is around you. How do you convert the environment around you, map it to something that you can actually navigate or the AI can navigate for you. I think that's an area where robot robotics is being applied at scale. A lot of those technologies will apply to personal AI as well. So for example, the ability to be able to connect cameras to haptics, the ability for you to be able to touch and feel something, be able to tell the difference between what it is that you're touching and how you react to it, the interaction between the sensors. And the senses, so your sensors typically are cameras, your sensors is haptic-based. How does that evolve and then how does that apply to personal devices that you might be using? Well, that's a good day. So you laid out a lot of the questions that are going to have to be solved, but not necessarily the answers there. All right, let's go to the audience for at least one question. We've got one right up here in front. Uh, go to this gentleman, please state your name and where you're from. Yeah, good morning, everyone. Pankaj Kadia ex-qualcom. I worked with Nakul for 10 years. Um, now I went to the dark side, uh, investing in AI. Um, but knuckle. Data centers. Nvidia is killing it. Intel, AMD, many of the hyper scales. Many of the startups. Um, it's a very crowded space. I would love to get your take on Qualcomm and data center. Where does Qualcomm fit in? All right, that's a good question. Yeah, Where does Qualcomm fit in the data center play? You guys just announced a big entry into the data center AI space. How does this fit in? Uh, how are you gonna outcompete these other players? So you know, I think first and foremost, computing in the cloud is changing. It's no longer going to be general purpose computing. It's going to be a different type of computing. I think the second piece is, I think all of us can agree computing in the cloud today is very expensive, uh, for a variety of reasons for energy, for cost of compute, for, uh. Uh, reasons that there are not many choices. We've been successful through the history of the company by being able to build products that are focusing on efficiency. So whether it's the cost of token, whether it's the cost per watt, that's something that we do really well. I think what is starting to happen now with AI workloads is that it's pretty clear as to what workload makes sense for what specific application. So they, so we are now in the second stage of AI and we don't believe that GPUs are the only way that these problems will be solved. I think we made a few announcements. There's more to come in 206, but there is a massive amount of interest in being able to take much more efficient compute things that we've been doing over the history of the company and applying it. And, you know, I'll tell you from experience, I've, I've been running the automotive business 15 years now. We are number one in automotive compute. We didn't sell a single automotive chip in 2016. So at the end of the day when you have such massive disruption going on, and it has to be democratic, everybody has to be able to get access to it, I think, you know, free market economics typically went out, so that's the bet that we are making, and I think the bet we're making is a technology-based bet. It's not based upon anything else. I think the other piece is, uh, this is a game of scale. At the end of the day you have to be able to have massive scale to be able to operate in this space. We are not focused on, you know, focusing on headlines. We're focusing on scale. That's where we're gonna be spending our time. And how do you see the balance of, of, uh, emphasis of the company between the on edge stuff, which is traditionally where you've been strong and this new move into the data center? So the way that we think about how we invest is to first focus on technology. Do we have core technology IP within the portfolio that has application more broadly? And I mean I'll use the example of automotive, which is a really good one. When we acquired the NuA asset for CPU. We immediately started to think about should we make this a safety core because if you're going to have a high performance score, why would we not apply it to a market that is going to be needing that same high performance score? It's the same concept. If we have cores that apply to CPUs that are relevant in the data center or NPU technology that's relevant, we are going to go figure out a way to go scale it. Then I think it comes down to what is the specific product that you have to build at that point in time. That is solving a specific problem whose time has come to go solve the problem. And once you take that approach, the market is going to always move towards what is the cost of ownership to go solve a problem of that sort. You know, in my mind, I mean, in the previous session, the question about is AI a bubble came up. It is not a bubble, but it is certainly frothy. It certainly needs to move towards uh some reconciliation between what's the scale in terms of what the affordability looks like. Everything is going to be AI based, but you are going to have different solutions, and we do believe there is a massive market over the next decade for it. Interesting. I know you spent a lot of time with the automotive makers, um, they would very much, I think, love to sort of own. AI assistance of the future, but their, their sort of history with this is a bit fraught. They thought when when we had the first wave of digital assistants, they tried to build their own into cars, but most people just take their phone and then you're using your Android assistant or you're using Siri or whatever it is in your car through Apple CarPlay. How do you think this is going to shape out in this new wave the car do the carmakers have any chance of actually kind of recapturing that real estate? You know, when I started to spend time on this, maybe about a decade ago, uh, people asked me, why would you not just, you know, give this up to Google? Why would Android not just take over the car. But there are a couple of reasons. I think the car is a platform that requires many different digital ecosystems to be hosted. It's very difficult for a digital ecosystem to just come in and say let me own this surface area because this is not a form. It is a product that has safety, it has reliability, it has a very different life cycle. It requires a much more, it requires much more curation in terms of what specific market you're applying it to. Where we are about 1010 years later is really this, you know, in the West, I think China is a bit different, but in the West this very good balance between where does the auto industry want to innovate, where versus Where does it leave it to the ecosystem to be able to bring core technology and we kind of help create that balance. We help create solutions, uh, since we have a very strong partnership with the digital ecosystem and obviously the automakers, right? We're gonna have to leave it there. We're out of time, but thank you very much, Nicole, for joining us. Thank you. Thank you all for listening.

In a world addicted to quarterly gains and viral hype, who’s still thinking ten years out? Visionary investors are being forced to rethink what conviction looks like—as AI, climate tech, and new frontiers collide to reshape global markets. Where should capital flow when disruption is the only constant? And what does it take to stay in the game when timelines stretch, valuations swing, and breakthroughs take years to pay off? This session dives into the new calculus of risk, patience, and purpose—where the biggest wins go to those bold enough to bet long when everyone else is chasing short.

The Long Game: Where Vision Meets Capital

In a market obsessed with speed, fast gains, fast pivots, fast exits, the real advantage may lie with those who think in decades, not quarters. AI climate breakthroughs and frontier technologies are opening new horizons, but they may only reap rewards for those who remain patient investors. The question isn't just where capital should flow, it's how long you're willing to stay the course. In our next panel, we'll explore where investors are placing their biggest bets across Asia and beyond. Please welcome Doctor Mahuti Jude, Deputy Secretary General of the Government Pension Fund of Thailand, Sandiaga S Uno, co-founder of Saratoga Investtama. And Johnny Joe, managing director of Primavera Capital. They'll be joined by Fortune Finance and crypto editor Jeff John Roberts. Please welcome. Hello and welcome everyone. I know we're in the sleepy part of the afternoon, which is a good thing we have a good topic how to make money. So that will hopefully make sure everyone stays awake for this one. I got some people who know a lot about this, and I thought just to get right into it, let's go with a topic on a lot of people's minds. Are we in an AI bubble? San Diego, do you want to start with that one? Uh, we are only at the start, so if there is some Valuations, uh, sort of like induce bubble that we're gonna take it's basically at the very early stage and some of the companies that are not adopting AI in terms of boosting their revenues and lowering their costs is the one that's gonna hit the bubble. Johnny, what's how are you looking at it? It depends on how you apply the technology. Uh, I think right now it's still very Uh, apply towards a very small limited group of people, uh, who knows the technology, having some sense of the technology, um, but it's never uh across the masses and if you don't apply to the masses, I feel like it's gonna be a huge bubble, but then you, you have hopes that the masses will adopt this technology and made it, um, you know, a universal technology that that could benefit the masses. Yeah, but for investment purposes, are you confident to invest right now or is it better to sit it out? Well, we're always confident to invest right now, otherwise, you know, you will be left behind. But, uh, you know, sometimes you need to be cautious because some people, they, they overpromise and that's an issue. Yeah, well, I'd like to bring you in here too. I think your position is a little bit different because you're managing a pension fund, so I think your risk exposure has got to be a little, little, you know, more conservative. So how are you thinking about AI right now? Well, I think that we have to trade off a risk return, and we still believe that I mean AI or tech stock is still the in the next. 3 to 5 years, I think we will still investing, investing in that sector, even though I mean it is really high for a year and that might be some, uh, I mean taking profit, but in the long run, we believe that tech technology is the support of the military, support of the economy and the superpower are gonna be. I mean raising each other between east and west. So it's gonna be important and then if it's gonna be uh uh adjust the price level down, we are gonna continue to invest. Yeah. And I think one way to look at this too is to look at the past. I mean this isn't the first time we've seen frothy markets, you know, the dot-com boom, it can be the mortgage boom, you know, real estate stuff like that. This is not new, but I think one thing that's key is how to think about it. So you know when you're playing the long game, Johnny, how do you sort of, you know, balance, you know, staying in there and you know, and you know how do you sort of stay steady during these frothy periods? Yeah, it's very tough to play the long game now because everybody is like scrolling through their TikTok when they're doing investments. So when they're having the mindset when they view investors or picking investors, they're like, OK, you need to perform 50% a year, otherwise I would choose a hedge fund or someone else. So it's very hard really for long term investors to prevail, I think. The key for us is to look at the mega trend, and the mega trend right now is one is the AI revolution, as you mentioned, and second is the rise of the global South, and for a lot of countries in the region that could benefit massively from this new wave of technology boom. Yeah, no, I think that's wise, how do you, how do you look at the, and I think it's interesting, but you've got investors with a Tick Tock attention span, but you're trying to invest for a decade, and that's that can't be easy. Are you find some of the same? Yeah, the long game. Well, we are now in November and Our economy is based on consumption, uh, and if you look at one of the months that people would spend a lot of money is uh end of the year, near Christmas break and during Ramadan. So now with the AI, you could already pinpoint uh the data that AI supplied to some of our portfolio companies is saying that 96% of consumers are already preparing. So you have a very ready market and 80% of them plan to shop more than last year and Half, almost 48% already use GNAI um to research for prices and products. So because you know that uh A sense of the where where the market is. When you want to play the long game is you have to go by by data. It has to be data-driven and this Gen AI has created an expert shoppers. So not only that you have to have the quality, but you need like experts convictions, people who review. People who give inputs and when you uh prompt, it, it will come out. So I think long game is not just about patience investing but making sure that you're making the right call. That makes a lot of sense. I want to pick up. On John's point about it is sort of investing in the global South, man, are you bullish? And let's talk about, well, since we're here, let's talk about the ASEAN region, Southeast Asia in particular. Are you bullish on the region as an investment, and what's the best way to get exposure to it if you are? OK, of course, uh, first we have, uh, only domestic tie, but now we diversify into develop market and Years ago we we are diversify to uh emerging market. We believe that I mean whether it's gonna be globalization or globalization, I mean the the East and the West is gonna have the same path, yeah, about the, I mean the the the the the the technology. So, so we have a location, separate location for for developed market and emerging market equity. And also in terms of a private market, we also have a uh a theme investment as well. Uh, so we, we believe we're gonna, we're gonna invest in the uh green and brown investment as well and when they enter to the market, uh, a private equity fund gonna uh. Invest in this team as well, yeah. How are you guys looking at it, bullish, bearish on South Asia? I think When you talk about the engine for growth, uh, Malaysia, in particular in Johor. It's going to be when you, when you look at the long game, it has to be like Uh, Johor for the data center, Indonesia for the green economies, and a lot of the carbon development projects and Vietnam, they represent a triangle of the new supply chain, and this actually is the story of Global South. So, I believe that the, the home of the long game is, is this region. Uh, now, how we We create a partnership, uh, and now you overlay the the AI how the public and private sectors could work together because in the past the the government tend to sort of like make regulations to confuse the entire, uh, I, I can, I, I come from uh government 10 years I spent my time in government and politics. Uh, we don't see this partnership with the private sectors, but now with AI and with the data. I think more and more, I think the sector needs the public-private partnership. Um, I think this region needs good entrepreneurs and for how to define a good entrepreneur for the next decade is really to how to combine AI with the industry we work in. Um, it doesn't matter how traditional it is, but if, if you can make a lot of uh transformation within your industry and based on your own country's sort of characteristics, I made a lot of. Adaptation, I think there will be a lot of good companies coming out of the region, but then if people stay very traditional and believe that, OK, I can just, you know, muddle through and stay behind and. I don't think there's gonna be a lot of great companies in this region, then the, the future is not gonna be great. So it really depends on how entrepreneurs react to the new wave of technology. Yeah, and so how do you get those entrepreneurs though too, because I know it's tempting to say, oh, the government should come in, and the government clearly has a big role, but I've also seen too much government. That's a good way to kind of, you know, sort of, you can, you know, hurt the entrepreneurial sector if the government's too involved. So how do you get that balance? Johnny and stick with you on that one too? Like what do you, as an investor, what do you like to see the governments doing? What do you not like them seeing? What do you not like seeing them doing? Yeah, I think government is always gonna be supportive and there's a, you know, new company and and doing great, right? But I think, uh, in order to breed a new generation of entrepreneurs, uh, you need to have a community and this community needs to be, um, so-called AI native and it's, it's not easy uh you need to find the like-minded people who, you know, believe that this new technology is going to transform every single industry. Uh, and you put them together, give them enough resources, uh, to, to, to breed their company and make sure from -1 to 0 and 0 to 1 they could be smooth enough and then it's the story of themselves trying to uh make, make the business work. Is that how you look at it, Santiago? Um, I think the uncertainty and fallibility, uh, in particular the last, uh, 12 months, uh, is actually great moments of, uh, anxiety, uh, and the knee jerk movement in particular by the governments, uh, when I was at the, at the public side is how you regulate. Uh, more. Well, from the private sectors, uh, that breeds on innovations, it's basically how you could have like a more sandbox approach that the private sectors can can grow through entrepreneurial spirits, taking risks, making more innovations and collaborations and, and proactively looking at At the next long game. So when you going back to your first question, the long game is not about chasing the hype, but the long game is, is actually focusing on this structural uh opportunities, uh, that, that exist. In terms of for us reaching out more to a wider audience, uh, while achieving it with a more efficient and and AI allow us to do it. Um, I think now the I agree with you. Uh, the government should, should take a step back and let this, this whole uh vision on long game uh established. We are still at the start. We're not yet even a quarter in, uh, and let the technology evolve. Yeah, let's stick with the harder topic here, geopolitics. We don't have to get into like specific things or who's wrong, who's right, but I think no one would disagree. Geopolitics, people talk about it a lot more than they did even 3 years ago. I mean, the American political system is looking shaky in some ways. Always, you know, you know, China and Taiwan, there's Russia, you know, but you know, is that something you can think of? I mean, I guess the world's always kind of been on fire to a certain degree, but when you're investing, do you try to hedge that, or do you just, you know, is that something you just kind of really can't think of? How do you think about that, man? Oh, well, I think. Just keep calm and be cool. Actually, I mean, your particular is gonna make disturb everything in the market, so no asset cost can be high. I mean, you have to accept the volatility, uh, anyway, yeah, but when you look at carefully, you will see that. They try to contain the war within the region. They try to uh prevent oil from rising. So most of the market is, is making new high. So if you are still risk averse, you're gonna lose quite a lot. So, so we have to. Turn back and and risk on again and we think that it's gonna be moving on. And on so, but, but, but I mean. Both A tech stock or a goal is going to be really high. You have to prepare that you're going to be taking profit, but, but it's going to be the for the next couple of years that I, that sounds optimistic that the market signals, the market will discipline the governments to calm down. I hope you're right. Is that how you see it, Johnny? Well, I think the same. I feel like, um, Money is important for every country and especially if you are a democratic country, uh, you need to deliver for your constituents and, um, so I think you know you just need to find where the value is, uh, rather than say, OK, geopolitics is gonna. Limit you, uh, by, by and large. I don't believe it actually. The the last decade, the whole geopolitical play has always been there, uh, from different trade wars and this and that, but the value is still there, right? Yeah, I guess that's a long game. Um, let's, uh, I, I can't help it because I write a lot about finance and also Bitcoin and commodities, so I'd be curious. I'm gonna put you guys on the spot, and you have to pick one. Are you more bullish on Bitcoin or gold? Goal I think in the long game that I have, not that I'm Also invested in gold companies, uh, gold, I could understand. Uh, I'm Not that smart and intelligent to understand crypto yet, but I'm studying from my daughter's friend. So I believe that uh gold has more like fundamentals because it is uh still the, it has a character that people understand, but crypto more and more now people, Gen Z and probably Gen Alpha would be more familiar with than the gold, which is a thing of the past. Um, but going back to AI, I think more and more companies now taking the plunge early, um. And crypto, uh, it is also educational if you take the plunge early and try to understand it and make allocations based on the education value out of it, um. And for us as a company that don't go into funding cycle anymore, uh, because we have sort of like a permanent capital, we could take more of a long game, taking our time in terms of building a strong AI game, uh, invest in people. Invest in a system that rewards uh strategy that could show um a good sustainable return 5, 1015 years down the road. And now because of AI we need to keep our relationship direct, uh, no longer with us. I, I do want to stay, I think your points are valid, but I do want to stay on the gold Bitcoin question. You gave me a very definitive answer. You're, you're a gold man. How about you, man? What's your, your, uh, well, you have to answer one or the other. Well, uh, actually, personally I, I like both, but as government pension fund, I'll say go. If you're running a pension. Well, yeah, I think in in the long run, I mean there are turmoil around the world, so central bank have to accumulate gold because they are worried about the dedollarization as well. So go and this year we review our SAA. Gold used to be a commodity, but now we separate to another asset class which is a defensive because you know we hedge the terror risk from geopolitical risk. Yeah, makes sense. Um, it sounds like you like both, but you know, if you're running a pension, probably the gold, OK, um, how about you, Johnny? What's if you had to pick one or the other? I'm bullish on neither neither. I will pick. Like a currency that is based on electricity generation, I feel like everything will be based on electricity for the next decades to come, whether it's AI or whatever. So if you put a bullet in my head and say you definitely need to choose, and I'll probably choose Bitcoin because it has the potential to be like a proxy for electricity-based currency, but, uh, if Bitcoin doesn't go that way, then I think neither of them will be successful as the asset class going into the. Next 10 to 20 years to come. I think it's it's a very interesting answer. You're right, because we were talking about that last night. Everything electricity used to be the most boring investment. Utilities were a boring stock and now it's like they're they're they're very hot. But just for this region here too, what if you had to invest in the energy sector, are you guys, you know, long on coal or you know what, what is, you know, how do we solve this problem of getting enough electricity? How do you think about that, man? Oh, well, I mean, as an institution investor, we apply, I mean ESG and we announced that a net zero target in 2050. So I mean coal is the industry that we try to reduce our portion. Yeah, alternative energy. I mean those kind of sectors that we're going to move into new and renewable energy, um, solar. Geothermal, uh, and, and basically now we have an emergence of uh biomass and like I said earlier that you want to keep the relationship uh very close because Southeast Asia is home of uh the green economy. So when you keep Your relationship direct to uh all this uh exposures is going to be make it very, very simple, and I think simplicity wins when you talk about electricity and and energy supply. Yeah, when we talk about the green economy, it's not just making the wind turbines or the solar panels, right? It could be related to, uh, construction materials because in the past and all these constructions made, uh, is, is not very energy efficient and then, you know, going into the next decade if we made new houses or new uh uh sort of office buildings can can that be incorporated into the story, right, um, and I think that is huge actually in terms of from a. Um, from a commercial perspective, so we're not just looking at, you know, green energy itself, but the whole economy needs to be aware of the, you know, making it green and energy efficient. That that's interesting because you're all bullish on green energy, yeah, because you know in the US right now there's been a backlash against it, but it sounds like you guys are all, you know, I guess in playing the long game that no one's denying that's where it's going. Um, let's finish up on an optimistic note. Tell me at one sector, and you can't say AI, Name another sector that you are optimistic about for investing over a 10 year period. You can start on. You only have 10 seconds, we're out of time here. So, I think I like equity. I mean in general equity, yeah, because uh GM and the bond and interest rate is going to be low for for for long, so only, I mean we have to accept volatility and but we review a long term risk in the, in the long term. So, so long term you bullish equities green economies across the board and asset class and also healthcare. Green Economies and healthcare and uh take us home, Johnny, what's your, what are you here? So one man company. I'm investing a lot of one-man companies, one man companies, yeah, startups. OK, yeah, great, uh, great source of answers. OK, please give our panelists a hand. Thanks very much. Thank you.

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